Astrotrac

[simon84]

Can anyone on here advise me on their experiences with the Astrotrac system.

Its something I am contemplating as I do not use my Equinox 120ED Apo anywhere near enough and will probably end up parting with it in favour of an Astrotrac. It certainley looks like it ticks all the boxes for portability and lightweigh, should save my back alot of aggro.

I've seen the two setups supplied by FLO and am not sure which of the two would suit me best, the manfrotto tripod option looks very portable indeed and as I would only be imaging with a single dslr with upto a 300mm lens it makes the pier option with the optional head a bit to OTT at this moment in time. That and £500

What sort of imaging times are people getting with this system, how do you go about guiding, is it as good as it sounds?

I've spoken to Steve at FLO but it would be nice to get some feedback from people that acutally use this system.

Cheers,

Simon.

[MartinB]

I have been very impressed with my astrotrac but am only using it at short focal lengths - typically under 20mm with a Canon 1000D. I have used it with a 200mm lens though and it tracked very well using 3 min subs. The great thing for me was that I was able to take it on holiday with me to Greece. I visit some great dark sky sites and got some nice Milky Way shots.

Build quality is good and it inspires confidence. The polar scope is the only exception, this feels very flimsy but does give you a pretty good alignment. The design of the Astrotrak means that the gearing is the equivalent of what would be an enourmous gear on a normal mount. This means the tracking is very accurate. Also having the weight of the system going directly through the central axis means that load capacity is much higher than you would expect

For me the whole concept of the Astrotrac is to have a light weight go any where set up that you can pack in your flight luggage or the back of a ruck sac. Provided you keep the weight down a decent quality lightweight tripod will work well. However, once you start to up the focal lengths esp if using a small scope and start thinking about guiding it loses some appeal. A more substantial tripod is required, guiding kit -either with a PC or a stand alone guider and more mounting equipment. The cost gets steep and protability takes a nose dive.

I'm sure it will perform very well with guiding and longer focal lengths but for me it is defeating the object.

Used as a lightweight, portable widefield set up it is an absolute gem

[Psychobilly]

If you need the ultimate in portabillty and can affored all those essential extras go for it...

If not take a look at the EQ3 Pro...

Peter...

[simon84]

Thanks chaps, it would be a portable lightweight short focal length setup for me with the odd chance of popping the 300mm lens on there but mostly a 50mm lens looks to provide excellent images.

Peter I did think about your EQ3 setup and I am halfway knocking something up that would fit on my NEQ6, its just a losmandy sized bar with a ball and socket head one side and a guide scope the other. Obviously the 6 is too big for me to make it portable and the 3 fits that bill much better so it is something I will consider before making a decision.

The things I like about the astrotrac are its tracking abilities without guiding. I've heard of upto 15 minutes at short focal lengths which is really appealing. I dont think I would ever mount a scope on it as I have the NEQ6 but as an over the shoulder addition to my camera bag its looking pretty favourable.

[Psychobilly]

The EQ-3 pro is pretty darn good "unguided" which is just as well seeeing as they are currently working on a fix for "iffy" guiding firmware...

I have used it up to 180mm unguided with 4 min subs PA'd just using the polarscope...

Peter...

[simon84]

LOL, show off

I got 3 minutes on my NEQ6 but I then had to take it all down again and the next time I only managed 90 seconds.....

The only problem I think I might have with the EQ3 is that I would want to stick a scope on it.

I've not dismissed it though as it will allow me to carry on knocking up my widefield setup. It'd just be a case of fixing 300mm of synta dovetail to it.

[MartinB]

I you aren't interested in goto then a second had Vixen Super Polaris or Great Polaris would be worth considering. They pop up from time to time on astro buy and sell for around £150 (make sure it's motorised and the handset is working though)

[Psychobilly]

LOL, show off

That is on the Pier though ...

In the "field" on the box ally tripod I have only really used it up to 50mm

Peter...

[simon84]

OOO, I have a pier.....lol.

I think 50mm will be my most used focal length, probably because thats the only decent lens I've got....

I just cant get the astrotrac out of my head, it looks to perfect.

Are there any negatives you can think of if imaging at 50mm? I know its alot of dosh but the sale of the Equinox covers it so I've not got to dip my hands into my pockets....

I've just been looking on the gallery and some if the images captured with it are incredible......I think I'm sold on it.

I think I will go for the tripod version that is on FLO and then mount it on my pier at home then down the road I may consider the portable pier......or maybe.........arghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beyond_Vision]

Longest sub I have done on the first generation astrotrac was 18 minutes at 20mm focal length.

http://stargazerslounge.com/equipment-reviews/60298-astronomik-cls-light-pollution-clip-filter-canon-cameras.html

I agree with Martin on the Astrotracs use being best suited to widefield. But it is possible to load it up with a large 4" refractor when on a pier and then still get some reasonable length subs. The new version can be guided in RA too. The pier system and head is beautifully engineered and the astrotrac can fit inside the pier and be carried in a tubular carry case for trips abroad

[simon84]

Thanks for the links Kevin, Steve at FLO told me about some of your images you have done with the astrotrac. For me it is all about widefield, I will probably have a crack at some DSO's with it as I may have a Sigma 500mm Apo lens coming for my Canon but thats a maybe, but for now I really want those short focal length images.

I have considered the pier package that Steve offers but I dont really want the additional head for mounting a scope. I might be able to get the package without the head in it but then I really like how portable the tripod setup is.

Does anyone know how the guiding works? I have a QHY5 here but I dont know how a guide scope would be added to the setup.

[Beyond_Vision]

For guiding you could use something like a finder scope or lense that can be fitted to the QHY5. A bar with quick release plate can be used to hold the imaging camera and quider. I have a mounting bar with a tripod head fitting which can take 4 DSLR camera's. I have had two DSLR's running on at star parties. It's available from astro-developments.

Regards

Kevin

[simon84]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the feedback, I'm pretty much decided that I will go for the travel system option but have the scope head taken out and replaced with the 496 RC2 ball head.

I will look into guiding but so far the exposure times look good enough without tracking. I've got my QHY5 setup on a finder/guider so will have a look at the astro developments site to see what they offer.

[simon84]

Kevin, is that the M3 system?

[Beyond_Vision]

No it's a round bar with two clamps with tripod mounts on that can be slid along the bar to balance it up and there are two extra mounting points on the ends. Although it could be used for mounting a guider on you would probablly be better off with a shorter bar. This could be simple bar with a couple of ball head mounts bolted to it with a 3/8ths tripod head thread made or a quick realease plate to attach to the Astrotrac.

[simon84]

Ok, thanks, I cant find it on their website. I will have another look now that you have described it. Cheers.

[Beyond_Vision]

Here's a pic of it and an extremely sun burnt me

http://ukastronomers.com/BeyondVision/image/8924_large.jpeg

[Dangerous-Dave]

I you aren't interested in goto then a second had Vixen Super Polaris or Great Polaris would be worth considering. They pop up from time to time on astro buy and sell for around £150 (make sure it's motorised and the handset is working though)

I used a GP as a widefield tracker for a while and it was great. Not as portable or accurate as the Astrotrac but only £200 second hand versus £500 for the Astrotrac. (That said, the hand controller packed up and the tripod dropped to bits so it ended up costing me more in the long run. )

The Astrotrac is an extremely accurate tracker, the problem is getting it polar aligned and stay polar aligned with the Manfrotto tripod and heads. I suppose I could beef it up with a heavier tripod and heads, but that's kind of defeating the aim of the Astrotrac.

I have had up to 5 minutes at 200mm focal length without trailing, but usually play safe at 3 minutes.

[simon84]

Thanks guys for all your help, the tripod setup does look pretty good for the money but I think if I do go for the astrotrac than I will go for the travel system and have the pier and wedge rather than the tripod and manfrotto head.

The only dilemma I have here is that if I go for the tripod setup I have automatically upgraded my current tripod so effectively kills two birds with one stone.

Both options look equally as transportable with the pier system just looking so swish at being able to contain itself into a natty shoulder bag.

I guess the bottom line is can the astrotrac handle 300mm on the tripod setup?

[simon84]

Is that the manfrotto junior geared head in your picture Kevin? If so I need to give it more credit, I thought that would be the weak point in the system but looks pretty good there holding all of that.

It might just be easier for me then to fix the head to the top of my pier rather than worry about getting a wedge.

[mint_mark]

I guess the bottom line is can the astrotrac handle 300mm on the tripod setup?

I started with the tripod setup and then bought the wedge. And then the head when I wanted to mount my megrez 72.

But with that setup (focal length 430mm) I have done 3 minute exposures after careful alignment.

There are some things you have to check (and correct) to get good alignment... the reticle in the polar scope needs to be central in the scope and the scope holder arm might need adjusting to make the scope parallel to the astrotrac axis (I did this with bits of sticky tape).

Other issues with long focal lengths... an unbalanced heavy load can be unwieldy (depending where it's pointing) and puts the astrotrac bearing under a lot of strain... the bearing can loosen over time.

It's hard to make fine framing adjustments with a basic ball head... a better ball head with a tension setting helps. A geared head is good but might not move where you want it to go. I bought the astrotrac head so that the load is balanced.

So yes, the astrotrac can handle it but it takes a bit of messing about...

Mark

[simon84]

Thanks Mark, I'm pretty much sold on it, as I have the pier here at home already I'm going to get the travel system and mount it all on my pier with their wedge. I'll then use the 496RC2 head to mount the camera on the astrotrac.

After looking at Kevins picture the bar looks like an excellent option for it.

It will be a lovely light weight system for me to use which will be alot easier on my back. I have had a look into other options and even thought the EQ3 is alot lighter than my EQ6 the astrotrac looks to take light weight to the next level.

So thankyou all for your time and advice, it has been really helpful and has help me decide what I'm going to do when I'm not looking through my dob.

[poltabs]

I use the first gen Astrotrac and find its superb!

When using a DSLR at 100mm FL then subs of 10 mins are fine, at 300mm FL 3 mins are fine, you might bet longer but I play safe!

Get a GOOD ball head though, something that will carry the weight, it will make all the difference.

Cheers

Kevin

[mint_mark]

Here's a pic of it and an extremely sun burnt me

http://ukastronomers.com/BeyondVision/image/8924_large.jpeg

Seeing this picture of the bar with two cameras... it made me think about getting a clamp and basically using a camera with a small lens as the counterweight for my (small) telescope. Then I could do widefield and longer focal length at the same time.

I was wondering whether the shutter activation from one camera might cause vibration of the other camera... do you have to synchronise the exposures for both cameras? I guess the shorter the focal length the less it matters.

[Beyond_Vision]

Sorry for not answering sooner the geared head is a Manfrotto 400 it is meant for heavy medium format camera's etc. It is a bit overkill for this and a bit on the heavy side. The head cost over £400 new, I got it second hand it for £200. The 410 in the package is a more lightweight unit and is ok for camera's with large lenses but is not really man enough for scopes. The next in the range is the 405 which is around £270 so you would be better off with the Astrotrac wedge which is £250.

The pier I am using is a Tal 1 which I picked up for £45.

Regards

Kevin