Choosing a Telescope

[Merlin999]

Thanks brantuk. It's a shame I don't live anywhere near you or I'd try and take you up on your offer!

My slight problem is I don't drive (eyesight problems) so I need to rely on my OH (who does like astronomy but works long hours) to take me there and I have kids at school with after school clubs and all sorts so it makes it all a bit tricky to get there. I have found there is one that meets once a month about a 40 minute drive away so if my OH is free that night I'll try and give it a go.

I do think you are right and it would be great to try out different types of scope. I might ask around my neighbours and friends: you never know, there could be someone living very near me who has a couple of telescopes I could try out.

[brantuk]

You're welcome Merlin - all the best to you - any other questions just ask away

[MikeWilson]

Some great advice on this thread, particularly from brantuk.

If I may add my 2p worth as both a Mak 127 (on a GOTO AltAz) and an Explorer 150P (on a HEQ5 PRO) owner. And as a newbie stargazer myself.

As has already been said, the Mak and the Newt are two very different scopes. The Mak has a major advantage when it comes to resolving detail on the planets. The Mak resolves Jupiter very crisp and sharp and actually looks "higher resolution" through the eyepiece). The Mak is also very lightweight and I store mine inside a cut-to-measure camping mat that doubles up as a dew shield which in turn goes inside an Argos toolbox (that I bought for around £12 or so). Once on the mount the whole lot can be lifted by one hand and carried, should you choose to observe from a different location (i.e. to get a view behind that tree!).

The Skywatcher 150P is harder to do that. The scope itself is heavier and larger. The 200P even more so, but given the dob mount and the trusses it would be easier to store. My Skywatcher 150P is currently stored under my desk - not ideal but safe, dry and secure. I don't think I'll ever find a suitable hard case for it and I doubt there's anything suitable for a 200P at all.

Regarding mounts, the AltAz GOTO that comes with the Skywatcher won't allow you to quickly slew the scope this way and that. You have to use the motors, which can be frustrating if you're just trying to stare and the sky and quickly want to twist the tube across the sky. However the slewing isn't slow and it is very accurate once you've done your alignment. It's even easier and more accurate with the newer handset firmware so bear this in mind if you're looking at older reviews.

When it comes to deep space observing, the Mak looses out to the Newt. I could never understand why people say you cannot see DSO with the Mak - you can. And some parts of DSOs look better in the Mak than they do in the Newt. But bear this in mind - the Mak has a much smaller field of view than the Newt (but stars are much more "constrasty" and flatter to see). In other words, you will slew to Andromeda and you will see it - or at least the core of it. The actual galaxy itself would require you to slew around a bit as it's so big. But from all the locations I've looked, the Mak is more than good enough to see some DSO through.

Planets look washed out and less tangible on the Newt compared to the Mak. The Newt delivers "better" views for the money on wider objects and clusters of stars and is much "faster" and hence better for astrophotography. But then, if you're looking at a dob or a truss scope you probably aren't going down the imaging route.

Incidentally, I'm having to sell my Mak 127 with GOTO (it's less than two months old) - I don't want to hijack your thread so will post up a separate sale thread. It's a great grab'n'go scope and with the GOTO mount you can find objects quickly. I can come in a fair bit under your budget too - but I don't want to break forum rules, I'll get around to posting a for sale thread later.

Regarding eyepieces - there's a fantastic set called the Revelation "Photo-Visual" eyepiece set that comes with a selection of decent Plossl eyepieces, a barlow and filters. The standard eyepieces that come with the Skywatcher 127 (I have these unused as I bought the Revelation set with the scope) are ok, but with the 127 it's worthwhile getting a nice wide long eye relief eyepiece. The 32mm from the set I use a lot and love it. I'll probably be letting the other eyepieces go as I use the 32mm almost exclusively! You can get this from First Light Optics with a 10% SGL discount (contact them). Well worth it.

And as for dew - I have only had trouble at Salisbury Star Party where the dew was pretty heavy. So heavy, I gave up at around 1am and went to bed. (It was too heavy for even a hairdryer and I didn't want to get the equipment excessively wet). A dew shield made from a camping mat works wonders and I've never had a problem with this arrangement. The Newt doesn't really need a dewshield - I used the Newt at Kelling and had no problems with dew either.

It's good to try different scopes, too if you know anyone (or astronomy society?) near you that has at least a Mak and a Newt for you to compare?

edit: Just noticed a few flagrant abuses of the English language in my post. I didn't proof read and I'm typing in "Chatty English".

[Merlin999]

Don't worry Mike, I like 'Chatty' English best, no need to get all serious and formal!

Interesting post, thanks. As it is planetary viewing I mainly want it for, it sounds like the 127 MAK would be a great option. I also like as you say the fct you can easily pick it up and move it: our garden is surrounded by trees so being able to move it would be a big bonus. DSOs are not my primary concern at the moment though I suspect once I've had my telescope a while, that may well change.

Interesting that you are selling, but I don't think I can see any of the for sale threads until my post count reaches 50.

I think I'm not too fussed about GOTO but I would appreciate the tracking.

Thanks also for the recommendation about the eyepieces. That will be my next big dilemma.

Thanks Mike for your advice. Can I ask, why are you selling your MAK when as you say the MAK is good for planets?

[MikeWilson]

Thanks Mike for your advice. Can I ask, why are you selling your MAK when as you say the MAK is good for planets?

Living space + finance manager.

Since July I've bought - two telescopes, two mounts, a selection of eyepieces, filters, a camera, a webcam mount, some adaptors, a power tank & cables, a camping mat + hair dryer... And I started off by purchasing a Mak 127 on a GOTO AltAz from First Light Optics in July

I promised my other half that if I got another scope in, the Mak would have to go out.

I'm not in any particular rush to let go of it though - and since I was planning to keep it long term, I got rid of the boxes so can't ship it (again for space saving reasons) But I should sell it really to offset the cost of the other gear I seem to be acquiring lately

I do a lot of work from home and I work in a modified conservatory. There's just about enough room in here for my work equipment + one mount and scope and still have somewhere to sit and work - so she does have a good point.

Plus, she did say (at a star party in front of more than half a dozen witnesses) that I could have an observatory at some point so it's not too unreasonable a request for me to have only one scope at a time at the moment

[MikeWilson]

I think I'm not too fussed about GOTO but I would appreciate the tracking.

Thanks also for the recommendation about the eyepieces. That will be my next big dilemma.

Regarding eyepieces - it's not that much of a dilemma. The way I see it is:

There are cheap-o eyepieces, copies of toy eyepieces floating around on eBay. Avoid!

There are the stock eyepieces that come with the Skywatcher scopes. They're OK actually despite apparent shortcomings in reviews, etc.

There are some nice eyepieces (Celestron, Revelation), etc that get consistently good reviews.

Then there are big, massive, monster hand grenade-sized eyepieces (that I am yet to look through myself) that give a field of view so wide you have to spin your eyeballs around and/or tilt your head from side to side to take it all in. These require re mortgaging your house or selling your soul.

Eyepiece Sets - Revelation Photo-Visual Eyepiece kit (don't forget the 10% SGL discount)

Eyepiece Sets - Celestron Eyeopener Eyepiece and Filter Kit (this might have a further 10% discount?)

Incidentally, First Light Optics are brilliant. The Mak that I bought came from First Light Optics and they delivered quickly. The OTA had dust in it so they shipped me another pretty much instantly - direct from the main distributor which was (is!) in perfect condition, just in time for me to take it to Cornwall at the end of July. If you're wanting to buy new, they give good service and keen prices.

Another thing is a moon filter. You actually get one with the Skywatcher Mak 127 (or at least, I did). But they don't always come with the scopes. You will need one if you're looking at anything more than a half moon as the moon can be very bright and harsh on your eyes.

As for the colour filters, I've looked through them and they're nice for bringing out the contrast on the bands of Jupiter but they do spoil (for me) the natural colour of the planet. Other planets may work better for coloured filters?

[Merlin999]

Wow, an observatory at some point. Sounds brilliant!

In that case yes, reasonable to sell the MAK! Is it 50 posts till I can see the For Sale threads? Your sale sounds interesting, need to check how close you would be to me for pick-up and price obviously an issue.

Need to check to see how many posts I've made but I'm not sure I'm anywhere near 50 yet.

[brantuk]

You've made 34 posts - 16 to go lol - say hi to folks in the welcome section - loads to pick from - you'll easilly get to 50

[Merlin999]

Oooh but I feel guilty about just waffling purely to put up my post count. Now I love waffling purely for the enjoyment and integrity of the waffle itself, but not when there is some ulterior motive to it!:)

[brantuk]

Lol Merlin - think of it as an investment - you posted there when you started and got lots of welcomes - so you felt at home and stayed and benefitted from the answers to your questions.

Before too long you'll have a scope and a bit of experience and be in a position to answer other newbies questions. Hence furthering the cause.

I doubt you'll be seen as waffling lol

[Merlin999]

Ah, in that case I shall feel virtuous about my waffling and cast aside these feelings of guilt.

Seriously, you are right, all the lovely welcome posts, including your own I might add, did indeed encourage me to stay. And I would love at some point to be in a position to advise others though I feel that time may be some way off yet!

[MikeWilson]

Ah, in that case I shall feel virtuous about my waffling and cast aside these feelings of guilt.

Seriously, you are right, all the lovely welcome posts, including your own I might add, did indeed encourage me to stay. And I would love at some point to be in a position to advise others though I feel that time may be some way off yet!

It won't be long before you can advise others. There is an undeniable multi-faceted learning curve to this hobby and it seems everybody is a learner in some way or another!

Although there are some experienced old hands (in a good way!) here whose advice is particularly useful.

Re: the Mak - I haven't posted a for sale thread yet (as I really need to take some pictures in the daytime and I've been really busy with work lately). It's in mint condition and there's a tiny chip on the mount which was there from brand new and I'm sure FLO would have swapped but it's not really anything to write home about

I'm in Farnborough, Hampshire. So if you're anywhere nearby you're welcome to pop over and I'll show you how it works.

Ultimately, don't feel pressured in any direction with any scope or mount. Each one has it's own advantages and drawbacks and you need to find the best one for your circumstances. However, there is no 'best all rounder' - each of the different telescope architectures and focal lengths is better at one thing or another. However, all things considered - the Mak 127 (with GOTO) is a superb set up for being lightweight, easy to stow and set up in minutes (although disadvantage: you have to leave the Mak about an hour to cool down as the tube is sealed otherwise you'll get shaky views).

Best,

Mike

[brantuk]

You'll be surprised - you allready have a lot of info about how to pick a scope - you'll be advising others before you realise it. Some of my first replies were very simple e.g.

"Get Stellarium" or

"Buy Turn Left at Orion" or

"Put the scope lid on and take off the small cap (to reduce moon brightness)" etc

[Merlin999]

Thanks brantuk. I've definitely learned a lot in a few days lurking on this website. It really is a great source of information. I think it helped that I had spent a couple of years just using binoculars to help me know what I was looking for in a telescope.Those Opticorn 10x50 binos have been a great buy (and I use them for bird-watching as well!)

Mark, I'm actually pretty close to you in Surrey but further up towards London where all the lovely Light Pollution likes to hang out. A second hand MAK and a second hand 8" Dob do sound like a lovely pair of purchases. (though my husband may have to be sitting down with a cold beer in his hand when I tell him my fiendish plan!) Seriously, one at a time, definitely, don't want to scare the poor man too much!

[MikeWilson]

"Put the scope lid on and take off the small cap (to reduce moon brightness)" etc

Oooh, that's a good one

[Merlin999]

Right now my main advice (to myself and other newbies like me who can't decide what telescope to buy) would be stop dithering and make a decision!!! There's all that lovely sky out there which you can't take advantage off until you get your telescope!!!

At least if you make a decision and find it's the wrong one, you can do something about it and learn from your mistakes, but constantly dithering leads to nowhere!

I've just got to keep repeating that to myself as I dither between the 127MAK and the 8" Dob.

[MikeWilson]

Thanks brantuk. I've definitely learned a lot in a few days lurking on this website. It really is a great source of information. I think it helped that I had spent a couple of years just using binoculars to help me know what I was looking for in a telescope.Those Opticorn 10x50 binos have been a great buy (and I use them for bird-watching as well!)

Good choice with the binos. They're better than the one's I have - an old rather heavy set of Russian 10x50's that I've had since I was a kid. It's amazing what you can pick up with binoculars - I had a treat looking through some at Kelling Heath. The Andromeda galaxy was especially clear through them under the dark skies.

Mark, I'm actually pretty close to you in Surrey but further up towards London where all the lovely Light Pollution likes to hang out. A second hand MAK and a second hand 8" Dob do sound like a lovely pair of purchases. (though my husband may have to be sitting down with a cold beer in his hand when I tell him my fiendish plan!) Seriously, one at a time, definitely, don't want to scare the poor man too much!

It's Mike

And yes, a Mak and a Dob would give you the best of both worlds - an 8" newt would give you stunning deep sky views while the Mak will give you good high powered views of planets.

I'm collecting together all the bits and pieces for the Mak and will get some photos of it, too. It needs a 12v power supply to actually use it. It comes with a battery pack that takes 8 (eight!) AA batteries and wears them out pretty quickly. So you'll need a wall charger type adaptor (12V) or a cigarette lighter adaptor (I'm including one with the Mak) and a 12V portable battery. I picked up one of these from Maplin when it was on special offer £24.99 at the time: Portable Jump Starter and Air Compressor Free Delivery : InCar Battery Chargers and Compressors : Maplin - it's well worth it and will power the mount with no difficulty. I even painted red nail polish over the light so that it shines red/pink instead of white!

[Merlin999]

Oops sorry Mike, no idea why I called you Mark, though I am having difficulty concentrating as my kids are both singing 'Compare the Meerkat' behind me for some unknown reason. The sooner I get them outside looking at the sky the better, though I'm going to have to ban singing while the telescope is being operated! (whichever telescope that is of course....)

Yes, I've been really happy with my Opticron binoculars. They've done me proud on dolphin watching boat trips, looking for sea eagles and all sorts of bird watching as well as being brilliant for looking at the night sky. I remember I researched them pretty well and got a very good price for them.

[MikeWilson]

Right now my main advice (to myself and other newbies like me who can't decide what telescope to buy) would be stop dithering and make a decision!!! There's all that lovely sky out there which you can't take advantage off until you get your telescope!!!

At least if you make a decision and find it's the wrong one, you can do something about it and learn from your mistakes, but constantly dithering leads to nowhere!

I've just got to keep repeating that to myself as I dither between the 127MAK and the 8" Dob.

8" Dob

PROS

Better views of deep space objects.

Wider field of view.

Truss version cools faster than the Mak.

No power required - and can be slewed to any target fairly easily.

CONS

No tracking.

No GOTO.

If a truss version - cannot be mounted later on an equatorial mount.

Bigger and heavier than the 127 Mak (not so much for the truss version, but the Mak will still store better).

Requires regular(ish) collimation.

127 Mak

PROS

Better views of the planets and the moon.

Smaller and lighter. Carry all your kit and walk with it

Better views of planets and the moon.

Tracks objects across the sky, so when you say to your other half, "Come out here and take a look at Jupiter and it's moons" - Jupiter is still there in the eyepiece

GOTO (pick an object from the hand controller and slew to it automatically )

Does not require frequent collimation (I have never had to adjust mine, even after transporting it).

CONS

Smaller field of view than the 8" Newt on a dob mount (therefore cannot hold many deep space objects in the same field of view).

Takes longer (1 hour) to get to optimum temperature

Requires a power source (either a 12V charger - cheap and plentiful to obtain or a portable power tank & cigarette cable)

The mount is stable enough for the scope but you probably can't put a heavier tube (i.e. larger Mak) on it later.

The default finderscope mounted on the Mak points in the same direction as the tube. Therefore to look at objects near the zenith (directly up) you may find yourself on your knees in the grass/concrete bending your head back to look through it. Better finderscopes are available to cure this problem

There is another option - have you looked at reflector telescopes at all?

That about sums it up

[MikeWilson]

Oops sorry Mike, no idea why I called you Mark, though I am having difficulty concentrating as my kids are both singing 'Compare the Meerkat' behind me for some unknown reason. The sooner I get them outside looking at the sky the better, though I'm going to have to ban singing while the telescope is being operated! (whichever telescope that is of course....)

Yes, I've been really happy with my Opticron binoculars. They've done me proud on dolphin watching boat trips, looking for sea eagles and all sorts of bird watching as well as being brilliant for looking at the night sky. I remember I researched them pretty well and got a very good price for them.

That's alright Nothing wrong with being called Mark. Last weekend people at Kelling were calling me, "Martin" (the guy whose pitch I had!), so I'm getting used to it. Despite registering on this forum with my real name!

One the things I find so good about astronomy is that while it is affected by light pollution, it isn't affected - at all - by noise. Therefore my son can make as much noise (shouting, "The moon! The moon, daddy!") over and over again doesn't affect the performance of the scope - at all

Binoculars are the best bang for buck way to see the sky, hands down. I think in terms of "What you see per pound", nothing can be binoculars for seeing objects in the sky. They're also very manoueverable, too However for my limited experience I could never find anything with my binoculars until I went to Kelling last weekend and I saw quite a few objects (with human-assisted goto of the other more experienced astronomers) in just a few minutes.

[Merlin999]

Thanks for that Mike. A very good useful summary which confirms the impressions I had of the two scopes.

I did originally look at a reflector: the Explorer 150PL on the EQ3-2 mount but I have to admit I was put off by the EQ mount. I was worried it would be heavy and bulky to store and take out to garden plus there is the additional hassle of pointing it to Polaris (which I can't see terribly clearly from my south facing garden).

So I ruled that one out and somebody wisely pointed me in the right direction of the dob to solve the EQ problems.

[Merlin999]

One the things I find so good about astronomy is that while it is affected by light pollution, it isn't affected - at all - by noise. Therefore my son can make as much noise (shouting, "The moon! The moon, daddy!") over and over again doesn't affect the performance of the scope - at all

Not just me coping with extraneous noise then!

Yes I agree about the binoculars and it definitely is the best bit of advice to anyone showing an interest in astronomy. I have loved using them so far.

[MikeWilson]

Thanks for that Mike. A very good useful summary which confirms the impressions I had of the two scopes.

I did originally look at a reflector: the Explorer 150PL on the EQ3-2 mount but I have to admit I was put off by the EQ mount. I was worried it would be heavy and bulky to store and take out to garden plus there is the additional hassle of pointing it to Polaris (which I can't see terribly clearly from my south facing garden).

So I ruled that one out and somebody wisely pointed me in the right direction of the dob to solve the EQ problems.

The Explorer 150PL is big. Bigger than the 150P that I have stored under my desk right now. Before letting go of the Mak I had planned to do a comparative review of them both, although I will certainly take some photos of them both together and write up the review later in any case.

The 150P won't work terribly well on the Alt-Az mount. It's just too big. The motors will run but the mount will wobble (not noticeable until you look through the eyepiece and the view is shaky - note: the Mak 127 is fine in this regard!).

But it goes to show the relative size differences that you perhaps won't have seen browsing telescope suppliers websites where all the images are somewhat normalised to the same size. The Mak is really quite diminutive in comparison to the Newt's 150mm and above.

The EQ3-2 isn't that heavy at all, but it is bulky to store compared to the AltAz that comes with the Mak. I cannot compare to the dob, but the dob has a bigger footprint. The AltAz mount folds up smaller than a children's pram/stroller (it takes up less space than our MacLaren buggy) when folded. So it's more umbrella-like than scaffolding-like.

The HEQ5 I've recently acquired is definitely in scaffolding-territory and I've forgone a night away at the inlaws garden to observe with it because of "it's too heavy" syndrome. I would have gone with the Mak but I've packed all the bits and pieces away in different places (at home) and hence why I haven't got any pictures of it up yet!

Regarding Polaris - I too have that problem. But from the side of my garden I can make out polaris just over the roofline, so that's workable for me. If you can't see Polaris you have to do various other forms of alignment (e.g. drift alignment) which is quite complicated...

The dob's a good idea. So is the Mak. Decisions, decisions

[brantuk]

I saw andromeda for the first time in binocs at Kelling recently - talk about gob smacked lol

[Ogri]

I take it you meant refractors Mike?

I plumped for one as my first 'scope, after I dithered a lot about it. I knew it was what I wanted from the word go, but wasn't sure if it would be quite small enough for me to pack on the motorbike to take touring with me. It's one of these Startravel - Skywatcher Startravel 120 (AZ3) and probably about the limit for an AZ3 mount (which is very steady, as it has me to steady as well as the 'scope!).

It's fantastic for daytime terrestrial use too, as well as for DSO's, and not 'that' bad on Planets and the Moon (I don't find the CA to be a problem).

Turns out I can carry it on the motorbike ok, but now I like the 'scope so much, I'm very reluctant to take it touring with me (best laid schemes of mice and men, and all that /sigh)!

To sit alongside the ST120, I just got the 200p Skyliner dob secondhand from johninderby. A very nice bit of kit it is too.

The only thing I can imagine I would swap the ST120 for though, would be one of these Startravel - Skywatcher Startravel 150 OTA and put it on one of those AZ4 mounts or similar.

Refractors do have a heck of a lot going for them, and I must admit, if I hadn't had the criteria of fitting a 'scope to the back of a motorbike, I might have got this Tal - Tal 100RS Refractor Optical Tube Assembly instead.

Now an 8" or 10" dob alongside one of those . . . . . . . . . .

Puuurrrrfick!

{for me anyway}

Heck I might end up with a Tal 100 RS at some point yet!

So little time, so many 'scopes . . . .