Choosing my first eyepieces

[FLO]

... it seems that UK shops simply do not want customers from the European continent. They are truly awful! They don't reply to emails (FLO), to messages left on answering machines (FLO), or they respond by email (Telescope House) or by pm on a certain forum (FLO), promise this and that and you never here from them again (TH and FLO).

To be fair Levina, though we are a little behind on communications we did respond to your PM requesting your phone number in the Netherlands so that I could phone and discuss your requirements personally. I then did phone but you were out for the afternoon. You also phoned us but it was outside of office hours. Regarding your difficulties with other dealers, I am guessing that might be because (Revelation ep set aside) you are wanting Celestron kit and Celestron's dealers are not permitted to sell to locations outside their own country.

I'll phone again when we open Monday

[astronomersanonymous]

Hi

The situation is that distributors do not retail products to other countries where there is already another distributor. This is not because of some law, because the law allows you to sell to whomever you wish. It is an agreement between manufacturers and their distributors. It is a good thing because it provides an environment where the customers in any particular country will get the best attention and service.

How?

Because when a distributor does not constantly have to battle with rival distributors, who are taking advantage of exchange rates to sell to retail customers in another country....(ahem, for example, a couple of companies in Germany, and a US west coast and an east coast dealer.....you know who you are)! that allows that distributor to spend a lot of time, effort and money to promote, supply and provide back-up service for their products. This benefits the customers. Lets face it, customers from other countries that wish to buy from here, or customers from here who want to buy from the US, do so only because of price. In which case, is it fair to expect our distributors and dealers to hold stock, or spend money promoting products?

My own belief is that selling on price alone or buying on price alone is short sighted. I have never bought on price alone because I know that those who are the cheapest are never the best dealers. They rarely have product or technical knowledge, and if problems occur they pass the buck.

Distributors encourage their dealers not to sell abroad for the same reasons. It is not a cartel or protectionism, it is simply the only way to keep the waters smooth, and this environment permits the market to grow in the right way, that ultimately benefits the end user....us.

Think of it like medicine, it might not taste sweet, but it benefits everyone in the long run, and is the right thing to do.

AA

[Levdr]

Yes, Steve, I did call the FLO number once after hours, but the second time I called early in the afternoon. How I could have missed your call is not quite clear to me as every call is registered by my phone. Maybe it won't register foreign calls. But no matter, whatever happened, I have bought my telescope&mount somewhere else, so there's no need to call now. But I thank you.

Well AA, if it is true that the cheapest dealers are never the best dealers, then FLO must be awful, as they seem to have the best deals. Which I'm sure they are not (I may not have had the best of luck with them as far as communications go, but there are many who speak well of them). Your statement that buying on price alone is short sighted may be true, but some of us don't have the luxury to shop locally and spend more money doing so. I myself have little money due to an illness that I have had for the last 24 years, which prevents me from working. So it's not because I'm stingy or cheap and hate to part with my money; I just don't have too much of it. Now, when shopping locally means the difference of 'a tenner', fine, but in this case FLO had a Celestron 80mm ED on CG-5 mount for an incredible price. That same set up costs almost twice as much over here. So, yes, I agree that buying locally is better, even if it does cost a bit more. But buying something from FLO for £ 315.00 or buying it locally for £ 600.00 is just too damn much of a difference, for me anyway. So, knowing of the Celestron restriction, I pm'd Steve, hoping that maybe he could offer a workaround, an alternative, or something. I don't know. In the end another local shop offered me a nice deal and even though it wasn't as good as FLO's, I accepted and the 'scope is on its way.

Also, there is the fact that some of the things that are abundantly present in the UK (and US) shops, simply are nowhere to be found over here. Like the Revelation Kit. I have found no shop anywhere in Europe that carries it (and I have googled in 4 different languages!). So, I thought of buying some GSO eyepieces instead then, just to get me started. Again, easy to buy in the UK, but in Europe I have not found them. TS has some, but not the ones i want. So then what? I don't know. I am now looking at alternatives. Instead, it would be so much easier if I could just fill in the order form on some UK site and buy the stuff from them. Remember, this is NOT Celestron stuff, but things that, as far as I know, can be sold worldwide and there is no reason, at least none that I can see, why a UK shop would be unwilling to sell these items to me. So it's a mystery why they don't reply to emails regarding shipping quotes. Maybe I should migrate to the UK?

[symba]

"Maybe I should migrate to the UK?" Lol, that was funny... knowing the laws of distributor competition, you'll probably have to !!

Which leads me onto further (humorous) irony... Advantages of living in the UK, plenty of telescope e-tailers and relativeley good deals...Disadvantage, nearly no sky to view them on (too much light polution).

[Levdr]

Haha, all that equipment and no sky to view them on! Maybe so! Although, I think light pollution may be everywhere now. In our part of the world anyway. However, I'm amazed what I can see through a pair of 7x50 binoculars in light polluted Amsterdam, even if it isn't in the worst part of the city, lights wise.

I was wondering something else though. I see some shops carry their own brand of eyepieces. Could it be that these are all basically the same, made by, I don't know, GSO?

[The Warthog]

Haha, all that equipment and no sky to view them on! Maybe so! Although, I think light pollution may be everywhere now. In our part of the world anyway. However, I'm amazed what I can see through a pair of 7x50 binoculars in light polluted Amsterdam, even if it isn't in the worst part of the city, lights wise.

From what I've heard, many of those lights are red, and shouldn't be an obstacle...

[symba]

Lavina,

It's worth finding out where the 'shop brands' are manufactured and by which company. Theoretically, a GSO manufactured brand should offer the same quality for every other brand they manufacture, unless more coatings are added to some brands like 'Meade' and not others; in which case, there maybe a difference in performance.

[symba]

The Warthog,

I have a question before I buy the eyepieces? Would the Revelation kit be suitable for my 150P f/5 newtonian, in terms of maginification and light definition ?

[Levdr]

From what I've heard, many of those lights are red, and shouldn't be an obstacle...

Ooh, that's very funny. Unfortunately (I can't believe I'm saying this) I live all the way on the other side of town where the lights are not red!

Yes, symba, that's my thinking exactly. If so, I could buy, let's say TS eps, or Robtics eps (Dutch shop), knowing that they are in fact GSO.

[The Warthog]

The Warthog,

I have a question before I buy the eyepieces? Would the Revelation kit be suitable for my 150P f/5 newtonian, in terms of maginification and light definition ?

You will want to get a shorter ep at the low end eventually, like a 6 or 7mm which with your Barlow will give you a good high power, although the 4.5mm that you get with the 9mm and the Barlow is not bad. This kit can last you a long time, but you can also use it as a stepping stone to better quality eps, selling off the kit eps as you replace them.

[FLO]

Yes, Steve, I did call the FLO number once after hours, but the second time I called early in the afternoon. How I could have missed your call is not quite clear to me as every call is registered by my phone. Maybe it won't register foreign calls.

We might have used our internet phone. Not to worry, the important thing is that you are sorted

Astronomersanonymous, that is one heck of a first post! Rather brave too. You are clearly speaking from a distributer's POV.

As a retailer I find it interesting that we now receive so many orders from outside the UK. I am trying not to grow used to it as I know that when the £/$/Euro merry-go-round moves against us those orders will fade away and we will see the return of the usual 'rip-off-Britain' threads...

[Levdr]

I would like to know just one thing: how do these other people from outside the UK manage to place an order?!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Personally I think the kind of protectionism AA is talking about -for it is that-, can no longer be upheld. Like it or not, the Internet has opened the world to the world and the EU has opened the borders of the participating countries and those who remain on their little island (no pun intended) will, unfortunately, loose out in the end. Buying and selling on the Internet is as easy as buying and selling on your homeground, and since money is hard to come by, why pay more here if you can buy it cheaper there? Hell, I recently bought me a Canon timer remote shutter control clone in China for 1/5 the price of Canon's official one.

If all things are equal I will buy from the local shop, but the problem is that often things are not.

[FLO]

Ouch

Whilst I accept we could have done better for you, you normally need only to select your country from a drop-down list. If an additional payment for delivery is required then we contact you.

HTH

[Whippy]

Tell you one thing, this makes a refreshing change from the 'I live in the UK, why is EVERYTHING cheaper in the U.S.?' .....

Tony..

[Levdr]

Thanks Steve! Although it was meant to refer to UK shops in general.

Like, when I was trying to order the Revelation kit from another UK shop, I was given three options: "UK", "Ireland" and "None of the above". When I chose the last option I got the message I hadn't chosen a country and would I please select a country. I had the feeling of being in Monty Python...

So it's nice to see your order form is in better shape!

[symba]

Warthog,

Thanks for the input. Based on your recommendation, I may purchase:

- A Baader Orthoscopic 6mm Eyepiece

- Baader Neutral Density Moon filter 3.0 Density (to avoid being snow blinded by the moon)

- Skywatcher UHC Filter for Nebulae

- and the Revelation eyepice kit

What do you think ? Is this OTT ?

[The Warthog]

Not at all, although if you are going with an orthoscopic, it really means you are going to look at planets and double stars. I would go with something with a larger FOV. Also, orthoscopics are said not to Barlow well, although I sometimes Barlow mine. With my scope I use my 7.5mm Antares with a Barlow for 200x on the Moon and planets often, with excellent results.

However, you will experience good results with your selection, too.

Oh, my eyesight is seriously compromised, but I don't use a ND filter on the Moon with my 6" scope. I'm beginning to think that ND filters are for the big Dob crowd.

[symba]

Thanks Warthog,

I'll look into wider FOV pieces.