which scope would come next?

[milan]

... would be a formidable setup.

LOL thats the wife in bits, she's sold!

Okay, you have me hooked right now , so whats the benefit of having them mounted side by side other than viewing through the SCT and the ED80 for imaging?

Do you have a link to the side by side mounting bar on your website steve? Ive had a look at the other bits already.

[Rossco72]

Just to add another opinion as a fairly new participant in Astrophotography, I would totally agree that getting a great mount will improve your enjoyment and success greatly. My own early beginings with a CG4 equatorial mount were very discouraging. Getting anything in the field of view and keeping it there was so difficult and frustrating. I took what i thought was a bold step to purchase an EQ6Pro mount for around £900 at the time and it has been a revelation. I have had 4 different scopes on it at various times and it easily takes a main scope and guide scope combo. Sure there's a learning curve about setting it up but honestly, once you've done it a few times it becomes second nature. For your £1000 you would have to look around some for bargains but you could get an EQ6pro or an EQ5pro with an 80mm semi apo on the second hand market. And if you do go for an EQ6 then it should do you for years to come on bigger heavier scopes (I use a FLT132 and C11 SCT, both with an ZS80 guide scope)

Good luck and good hunting

[FLO]

There isn't a world of difference but mounting them side-by-side would keep the centre of gravity closer to the mount and make it easier to swap one scope for another should you later add another ota to the mix. One OTA (whichever best frames the object you are imaging) would be the imaging scope while the other is used as a guidescope.

ADM Guidescope Rings and systems - ADM Vixen-type Dual Mounting Bar

HTH

[milan]

Just thinking out loud here having been outside for a bit of satellite watching. Would it be possible to get the EQ 5 or EQ 6 and mount my 5D with 200mm F2.8 lens with it and get images like that. Obviously there is the draw back of it only being 200mm and not 600mm like the 80ED.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=adm_mds_camera_adapter ?

If so looks like an expensive route for not much gain?

[FLO]

What are you wanting to achieve?

[milan]

Would love to get some deep space objects such as the M13 etc. Was also inspired last year of some amazing shots of Orion nebula over at popastro.

Would love to capture images of that kind of that kind.

Some inpiration:

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-deep-sky/85918-m16-eagle-nebula.html

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-deep-sky/85830-m31-session-5-a.html

Must say my only concern is that am i going to be disappointed with a 600mm telescope? i.e. if i wanted to print something off am i going to have to blow it up so large that it becomes pixelated. Oh and reading more, would i need a flatener as well?

[FLO]

Most of the bright showcase targets respond well to astro-imaging with a DSLR and there is a lot to be said for starting with what you have got. Martin mentioned earlier in this thread that it is harder to image at longer focal lengths as tracking errors are more pronounced so your short focal length camera lenses will have an advantage there. Perhaps you should start with a secondhand CG-5 or EQ5 with a motor and try your hand at some unguided imaging. Then when you have a clearer idea what it is that most interests you invest in something more ambitious.

Even better, shelve any thoughts of imaging for a while and simply enjoy the eye-to-eyepiece views through your current setup. What you will learn from getting the most out of what you have will help considerably when you do take up imaging.

HTH

[milan]

Thanks for the sound advice. I can totally see where you guys are coming from but the problem we have at present though is that with the nexstar 6se mount isnt really up to the weight of the 5d (even with battery grip removed) and even attaching it to the telescope has often resulted in it moving. Hence the reason for looking at something a bit more robust.

Like you say maybe go with just a mount and attach the 6se. Who knows?! and i thought observing was a minefield.

[narrowbandpaul]

welcome to the dark side :-)

[milan]

Dont you mean the expensive side!

Anyway, having reviewed all of the above in the cold light of morning, current thoughts are as follows:

Buy an EQ5 or EQ6 (Pro version) and use the Nexstar 6SE on it for imaging and buy a Skywatcher 80ED later when funds allow. does this seem sensible or will i get better images (because of the optics) from the 80ED so its worh investing now? (WO 98FLT is out based on comments in this thread)

In terms of portability etc the EQ5 is considerably smaller and would be easier to move than the EQ6 from what i saw yesterday at our local shop but in terms future proofing and the threads on here, the 6 seems the way to go. Would the EQ5 cope with the nexstar and a 80ED? Seems daft to buy a EQ5 now and then upgrade in the future as im sure i would loose more than the price difference between the two in the first place (new prices).

Thanks again.

[arad85]

Sounds like a plan is forming.... Having said that, there are some potential gotchas which you might like to think about:

• I'd expect to get significant vignetting using the C6SE and a full frame camera like the 5D - but you will be able to see that on exposures with your current setup
  
• Most people who use the SCT for imaging use a field flattener or focal reducer to speed the optical system up. They're not cheap!
  
• Without a focal reducer, the length of exposure you will be able to get unguided may well mean that you have cruddy data to deal with (long focal length -> higher mag -> more sensitive to tracking errors)
  
• also an F/10 system will take 2x the time to gather the same exposure as an 80ED - again pushing the tracking errors.
  

[milan]

Understood, so i wouldnt need a focal reducer with an 80ED at all?. I think i asked that earlier on but didnt get a response as yet. (will go and look at cost difference between 80ED and reducer)

[arad85]

I don't use one on my 80ED and the few photos I've taken don't show vignetting (but I've only got an APS-C sized sensor in the 450D)

[MartinB]

You are asking some good questions Milan. Think of scope f/l in the same way as you would camera lenses. Which is the most useful a 200mm or a 28mm camera lens, it depends on what you are imaging. A 28mm lens will be much easier to use when light intensity is low because it is lighter and photos will suffer less from camera shake.

Can you blow up images taken with a 600mm f/l scope - yes! Some of the greatest astroimages have been taken with scopes with shorter f/l than this and blown up to poster size. In stable atmospheric conditions you will loose some resolution compared with longer focal lengths so you can't just have a tiny galaxy in the picture and expect to crop the image and enlarge indefinitely but if you are taking a large nebula which fills the frame it will enlarge very well. A 200mm lens will loose you more resolution because at this magnification you are well below the limits imposed by atmospheric turbulence but it will still be great for marvellous wide field views.

My scope is the same size and weight as an EQ6 pro. It is hefty but it is still quite manageable for lugging around the garden if you are of average fitness. I carry it around with the tripod attached and just remove the counterweights.

As jas beem saod a reducer is really a must for the Nexstar. The Celestron 0.63 would seem the ideal choice. This reducer can also be used with the ED80 to give you a variety of focal lengths although I am not sure what the field flatness will be on your DSLR.

Here is an image of M31 I took last Autumn using an ED80 and a 0.8 flattener. The QHY8 has an APS size chip.

M31 - The Andromeda Galaxy

[milan]

Been taking photos for a while and am finding some of the pitfalls are similar, including buying cheaper and then upgrading later.

Just looking at your camera QHY8, that is a dedicated camera for astrophotography, should i be expecting similar results from a DSLR? (i know you have cooling on that etc) or at least close enough that only the experienced user would know the difference.

From the latest comments it seems that an ED80 with the 5D on a mount is the way to go to get what i want in terms of images. So i think the optics are effectively sorted.

The mount however seems to be a minefield on its own, i.e. do i get the EQ5 just for use with ED80 and 5D or get a EQ6 with a view to mounting it all on (ED80, nexstar 6SE and Canon 5D) on the EQ6 mount (would this be asking too much of the EQ5?) and leaving some spare for upgrading the SCT in years to come.

Oh, just to throw in another curve ball we have a laptop and desktop, both of which are macs. Ive seen a few pieces of software for stacking for macs (nebulosity seems to be favourite) but in terms of telescope control etc and imaging (i an shoot tethered) anything i need to know?

[Rossco72]

milan,

I have a 5D and a 450D DSLR which I use for imaging. There is a lot of kit around and a lot of targets for your DSLR before you need the jump to a dedicated CCD.

I think a second hand EQ6 would be a great investment because with a little tinkering you can use all of your existing kit and take a step up in performance. A reducer for the SCT will be around £160 for a branded one or £70 for a clone. The EQ6 with a dual mount bar will also easily take your current sct and a good sized refractor when time and budget permits. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here and I have found their wisdom worth heeding.

As always however, personal circumstance does come into it for budget, carrying capacity, light polution, observing time etc. these all need to be considered. For example I like in a city centre flat with horrendous light pollution and no garden area to speak of. My setup then has to be driven to a dark skies site and setup each time i observe and or image. This can be a real restraint in what the right kit is (Which is why i use a DSLR and Smartguider as there is no need for a PC and additional power supplies out in the country :-) )

Just listen to the advice given, ask good questions (as you have been) and try to weigh up the pros and cons. From personal experience, I have never found a scope I would say was bad once it was mounted on my EQ6, from that I take the point that the mount can make just as much difference as the scope and for imaging perhaps more so. If budgets are tight just now, a better mount will do you more good than compromising to get a mount and new scope.

Cheers

Stuart

[milan]

Dont worry wasnt going to dive head first in to a dedicated CCD, was just trying to expand my knowledge.

Again, more useful advice, still leaning towards an 80ED and EQ6 (seems overkill in terms of capacity right now but in the long term it seems to make sense). The wife is also worried about the weight and also where were going to keep all this gear. Its easy enough for me to keep all my camera kit out the way but a large 25kg moount is another matter.

One advantage i can see and quite like is that i got into the via the wife who has always been fascinated with astronomy, so i bought her the nexstar for her birthday. Where as photography is my hobby and combining the two seems to be a good idea, especially being insipred by the images on here. Having two mounts seems to have the advantage of being able to image with the 80ED and observe with the nexstar while taking images, so were both happy.

[milan]

Further research:

80ED weight 2.47kg

Canon 5D 0.81kg

Nexstart 6se 9.25kg

Total weight 12.5kg + a bit for a side by side mount (1kg) = 13.5kg

EQ5 seems to be rated at 15kg, so this should be fine?

Future proofing:

Celestron's 8" & 9.25" SCT's comes in at the same weight as the 6se OTA. It not until you step up to 11" that the weight goes up (12.53kg)Taking tht total weight up to just under 17kg, too much for a EQ5? or would it 'cope'?

[arad85]

Further research:

80ED weight 2.47kg

Canon 5D 0.81kg

Nexstart 6se 9.25kg

Total weight 12.5kg + a bit for a side by side mount (1kg) = 13.5kg

EQ5 seems to be rated at 15kg, so this should be fine?

Future proofing:

Celestron's 8" & 9.25" SCT's comes in at the same weight as the 6se OTA. It not until you step up to 11" that the weight goes up (12.53kg)Taking tht total weight up to just under 17kg, too much for a EQ5? or would it 'cope'?

You've got that a bit wrong there - the Nexstar is 9kg INCLUDING the tripod. The 9.25 is 9kg and it is MUCH heavier than the 6 OTA only (I know, I own both . The CG5 is starting to labour with a C9.25 on it (still does goto fine, but you can hear the motors starting to strain).

Yes, the CG5 will hold these scopes, but you'll find most people like to significantly under load the mount when doing AP. I think you'll only regret getting the cheaper mount....

[Rossco72]

I agree, get an EQ6Pro, it will carry more, be more future proof and give a better AP platform

[milan]

You've got that a bit wrong there - the Nexstar is 9kg INCLUDING the tripod.

Really? (i did question it mysef) but the website i looked at said different:

TELESCOPE WEIGHT 21 lb (9.53 kg)

TRIPOD AND MOUNT WEIGHT 9 lb (4.08 kg)

Celestron NexStar 6 SE

Thinking about it the 6se OTA is probably one minus the other i.e. effectively 5kg?

Anyway, i think that has made my mind up (EQ6 PRO and 80ED). Now just need to build the confidence to hit the 'order' button.

[MartinB]

Just do it, you know you want to!

[Rossco72]

Dont be afraid to trawl around the classifieds. I mean the prices on FLO are about as good as you'll get for new but there are a few goodies on the second hand market and most kit has been either loving looked after or rarely used (marking the two ends of our hobby, you either love it and take care of everything or you loose the will and everything sits in a corner until you sell it, lol

But a second hand EQ6 or ED80 will still be cracking as a combo and could save you a few pounds for all those add ons like a bigger power tank, dew removal, photo adaptors, field flatteners, focuser upgrades.............. and the list goes on.....

[milan]

LOL thanks

Problem the wife and i have is we are impetuous and im always nervous about spending that kind of cash on 2nd hand gear (more tempted by a 2nd hand scope than mount)

Also, some kind of sense is kicking in having spoken with the wife and assessed the weights above, in relation to the mount. I cant see us upgrading the SCT for 5/10 years so the EQ5 would provide us a lot of service. Grrr damn hobby

Mind you we said similar about getting into astrophotography! need to win the lottery.

[Rossco72]

Ha ha, i know that feeling, but the lottery gods cant help us all!!

Just think tho, you would then be looking at what £250k - £300k for a made to order Tak!!