82 Degree Price V Quality - Baader, Explore, and Skywatcher

[hal9550]

Hi everyone

 

This is my first post proper, after posting in the welcome page. I dont have a signature yet, but suffice it to say i have 2 8" Meade Schmidts, one is ACF. Both mounted on an LXD75. I also have a Helios 6" F8 Refractor/Achromat 

I have a decent inventory of Narrow to Moderate EPs, but currently only have one 5.5 Meade UWA - which is lovely. My list is on my welcome post, if anyone is interested.

Im going to be in the market for 82 Degree EPs, and i wanted to get peoples thoughts on this. I have posted in other forums, and am really just researching this at present. Having given careful consideration, i have decided not to pursue Tele Vue Naglers, or any of the Tele Vue line. While i fully acknowledge the high quality nature of Tele Vue Eyepieces, i cannot justify the expenditure. They are clearly very good. But compared to Explore Scientific, et al, the price difference is just too great. Im based in Ireland, so the price for TV tends to be double that of the equiv ES, to say nothing of other brands

I do have some Specific questions:

Skywatcher Nirvana

Iv seen conflicting reports on the quality of these, ranging from them being second to only TV at certain focal Lengths - to them really not being in the mix at all compared to Explore scientific and Baader Morpheus. Id be really curious about this communities thoughts on this range. Its certainly the lowest Price, per EP. How would you folks rate them compared to ES82, and Morpheus? And indeed are they comparable by any degree to TV

Explore Scientific 82 Degree

Again i have heard conflicting reports. Some would seem to suggest these as neer peers for TV, while this is vehemently contradicted elsewhere. I know there is an issue with regard to Eye Relief - which may not be that much for me to worry about. I have started using Reading Glasses, but it hasnt caused me great difficulty using tight ER Eps thus far. One thing i have heard many times, is that they perform poorly at some focal lengths, in faster Scopes. As i have 2 F10s, and plans to get a Grab-and-Go Maksutov which would be F12+ - is this something i should be concerned about? Id be curious to know how people rate them in comparison to TeleVue - is there a vast difference? Any tips on focal lengths to look out for would be greatly appreciated. Equally what to avoid!

Baader Morpheus

I know these are gathering a following. They are a good bit more expensive but still (just about) within my price bracket. What do people think RE Price V Quality compared to my other candidates. 

Other options!

If there is another family of EPs that i have not considered, please fire away and let me know. I have heard poor reports on Celestron Luminos, and other brand siblings. That said, im always open to suggestions

My intention is to acquire these over the next 6 months - 1.25 is preferable at certain focal lengths as the Mak i intend to get wont have a 2" focuser - but im aware that above 16mm it tends to be exclusively 2" territory. Im also not particularly fussed on sticking to one family.  A mish mash of different brands is fine. The goal would be to have something focal lenths aproximate to 7, 10-12, 14-18, 20-24 - im aware that focal lengths vary brand to brand but roughly speaking - thats what i am aiming for - im open to getting about 5 or 6 depending on the quality and price - beyond that focal length my Orion Q70s serve me well for lower magnification situations. 

Im aware i dont have access to classifieds yet, but when i do, and as i start to buy, i will be selling some Baader Hyperions, possibly some moderate AFOV 2",  and various other mid range AFOV eyepieces - perhaps swaps, who knows!

 

Thats really all i can think to say - its great to be here. Look forward to hearing what you folks have to say, and debating the finer points of our hobby! Im not an expert by any means - i am now, and will remain, an enthusiastic novice! 

 

Sincerely with Thanks

Liam!

 

[cajen2]

Hi Liam

All EP comparisons and recommendations are extremely subjective and depend very much on personal taste. I've found the Morpheus range to be by far my favourite in quality v £££, so much so that I've given up even thinking about upgrading them. I have the opportunity of comparing them with a TV Delos 8mm which I own: I much prefer the Morph 6.5 and 9. I find it easier to achieve good eye position with the Morphs and AFOV is wider. I've also compared them to ES 82° items and still prefer the Morphs.

Needless to say, your mileage may vary!

[Elp]

I had the ES 6.7 82, it was a very good EP but I wear glasses and didn't want to keep removing them at risk of damaging them, so replaced with LER EPs (Pentax XW, you can get the 1.25 ones at decent prices used).

Edited Tuesday at 15:22 by Elp

[hal9550]

10 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Hi Liam

All EP comparisons and recommendations are extremely subjective and depend very much on personal taste. I've found the Morpheus range to be by far my favourite in quality v £££, so much so that I've given up even thinking about upgrading them. I have the opportunity of comparing them with a TV Delos 8mm which I own: I much prefer the Morph 6.5 and 9. I find it easier to achieve good eye position with the Morphs and AFOV is wider. I've also compared them to ES 82° items and still prefer the Morphs.

Needless to say, your mileage may vary!

Iv heard nothing but the best RE Morpheus, that is for sure. And the eye-relief seems to be the deciding factor - Il tell you what it is, i tended to acquire EP's over the last decade - and kinda half avoided touching the 82 degree ranges, until i landed the Meade UWA 5.5 in a swap with someone. I wouldnt exactly say i was hooked straight away - but every time i use it, i come away debating getting more 82s, at different less powerful focal lengths. I was chatting on CN last night, and i kinda live between 9 and 30 mm - and spend a lot of time between 10 and 25 - so there is room for some 82 degree fun, for sure. I have the oddest feeling that if i pick up an ES82 - il love it - and then some time later, il have the chance to use a morph - and bang - il be hooked on them. But i have to be conscious of budget of course

I have heard it said the 17.5 mm Morph isnt actually 76 degrees - and i have seen at least two different users complain about black outs - can you comment on this? Blackouts would annoy me a bit - i deal with them on several basic WA EPs that i use, but i content myself with the fact these werent expensive - But the Morphs will obviously cost a bit more

 

 

[Elp]

I had the Morpheus 14mm, I didn't like the orange tint it had due to exit pupil I believe, the actual fov wasn't coloured, just the edges for my use.

Also had the Meade 8.8 UWA 82, I liked that EP a lot, but same issue with ER, the ES was it's replacement.

The XWs are the only ones I've had which I havent felt the need to change.

[Ratlet]

With the Nirvana's I believe they are all pretty good with the exception of the 16mm which has wicked field curvature.  It is diabolical.

[hal9550]

6 minutes ago, Elp said:

I had the Morpheus 14mm, I didn't like the orange tint it had due to exit pupil I believe, the actual fov wasn't coloured, just the edges for my use.

Also had the Meade 8.8 UWA 82, I liked that EP a lot, but same issue with ER, the ES was it's replacement.

The XWs are the only ones I've had which I havent felt the need to change.

That is interesting, its probably the first time i have heard that about any morph - supposedly the 14mm is the odd one out - perhaps focal length specific issues - 

Iv heard nothing but praise for Pentax, without a doubt - the price is what is keeping from them. Even limiting myself to 3 focal lengths (which probably would work) id be looking at 1000 odd - and these are 70 degree, as opposed to 82. I know they have 2 focal lengths in the 80+ range but they are well outside my price bracket. i think they are 23 and 16 - wihich kinda leave a gap between 16 and 5 - 

They may just be a bridge too far for my budget -

Similar to my decision on Masuyama, despite wonderful write ups at F10 - they just cost too much at my focal length needs (the masuyama supposedly has awful Eye relief too)

[John]

I've owned and used most of the 82 degree eyepieces around including Tele Vue Naglers.

If I was starting out again now I think I'd probably go for Baader Morpheus and accept a slightly smaller AFoV with some of the focal lengths in return for comfort and optical quality.

 

 

[John]

1 minute ago, John said:

I've owned and used most of the 82 degree eyepieces around including Tele Vue Naglers.

If I was starting out again now I think I'd probably go for Baader Morpheus and accept a slightly smaller AFoV with some of the focal lengths in return for comfort and optical quality.

 

 

NB, currently I'm using a Pentax XW, Delos, Panoptic mixed set and hence less than 82 degree AFoV's. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 15:58 by John

[Zermelo]

There's a long thread on the Morpheus range here. The measured AFOV does vary slightly, but that's not unusual for eyepieces.

Eye glasses are a consideration if they correct for astigmatism, otherwise you can do without. Mild astigmatism may not be an issue at higher magnification, but tends to be more visible with lower mags/larger exit pupils.

I have an ES6.7 and liked it a lot, I also used Nirvana 4 and 16mm quite a bit, but they hardly make an appearance now that I have a full set of Morpheus and some decent zooms.

[Elp]

You don't really miss the 82 degrees if you've got 70 odd. Depends on scope though too.

Edited Tuesday at 16:03 by Elp

[John]

2 minutes ago, Elp said:

You don't really miss the 82 degrees if you've got 72. Depends on scope though too.

True.

I was a "wide field junkie" with TV Ethos etc but after enjoying those for years I'm getting along fine now with smaller AFoV's and smaller eyepieces (and a much lighter eyepiece case too !)

Edited Tuesday at 16:04 by John

[Elp]

Yes, size and weight is also a consideration. My diagonal though good quality has a habit of the front piece unscrewing under heavy EP load, especially when they're at an angle.

[Elp]

I'm sure the Delos would also be good, but high price EPs. The TV 32mm is the only TV plossl type I kept out the range. The Vixen 30mm NPL is approx 90pc of the TV 32mm in my opinion, decent EP, sure the rest of the NPL would be good.

Edited Tuesday at 16:09 by Elp

[bosun21]

The fact that you have crossed TV off your shopping list I would without hesitation opt for the Morpheus eyepieces. I have owned the set of Explore Scientific 82° as well as the Morpheus range. I have also owned the range of Nirvana's. The Morpheus wins out over them all. The contrast and clarity is excellent throughout the range as is the viewing comfort and eye relief. Regarding blackouts? I've never experienced them nor really heard about them. Finding eye position comfortably in the shorter focal lengths has led some to fit the short M43 eyepiece extension to attain a more comfortable eye position. I never found this myself. When I reviewed them for FLO I would have given them 6 stars if I could.. The Nirvana's are great value as well and no slouch. Avoid the 16mm though.

[CraigT82]

Another vote for Morpheus here. Had pretty much the whole range back when they came out and they were £149 a piece. Stupidly sold them on. 
 

They're not the widest but i have found them to be the easiest to look through and to see the whole field.  

[Bivanus]

Hello Liam and welcome. I started with Plastic-Fantastic 50° graduated to ES 68°/82° currently main line is TV (mostly NAG/PAN with first DeLite as of today) and APM (30mm UFF/3.5mm 100°) with one ES (20mm/68°) and one Lacerta (4mm/82° )

Yes, TV are expensive , only went there because chance and second-hand market. Please note that ES are - by my eye seeing - verry close to TV just not 100% there. Would said chance not happen I would still be happily using them.

As others already mentioned , eyesight is HIGHLY subjective, so my opinion would be to try some second-hands ES and Morpheus ( don't let the 6° difference detter you, you might be plesantly surprised)  Aplso , do try the 30mm UFF in one of it's guises ( APM,TS, Stella Lyra etc) it may be 70° but man does it delliver !!! 

[Don Pensack]

2 hours ago, Elp said:

I had the Morpheus 14mm, I didn't like the orange tint it had due to exit pupil I believe, the actual fov wasn't coloured, just the edges for my use.

Also had the Meade 8.8 UWA 82, I liked that EP a lot, but same issue with ER, the ES was it's replacement.

The XWs are the only ones I've had which I haven't felt the need to change.

The Morpheus EPs are not daytime eyepieces because, like many 82° eyepieces and wider, they have some chromatic aberration of the exit pupil, CAEP, coloring the outer few degrees.

It isn't seen at night, so obviously these are astronomy eyepieces, not spotting scope eyepieces.

The 70° XWs have the same CAEP, but it's yellow, so barely noticeable in daylight and also invisible at night.

[hal9550]

13 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

Hello Liam and welcome. I started with Plastic-Fantastic 50° graduated to ES 68°/82° currently main line is TV (mostly NAG/PAN with first DeLite as of today) and APM (30mm UFF/3.5mm 100°) with one ES (20mm/68°) and one Lacerta (4mm/82° )

Yes, TV are expensive , only went there because chance and second-hand market. Please note that ES are - by my eye seeing - verry close to TV just not 100% there. Would said chance not happen I would still be happily using them.

As others already mentioned , eyesight is HIGHLY subjective, so my opinion would be to try some second-hands ES and Morpheus ( don't let the 6° difference detter you, you might be plesantly surprised)  Aplso , do try the 30mm UFF in one of it's guises ( APM,TS, Stella Lyra etc) it may be 70° but man does it delliver !!! 

Yea its basically ES82 or Morpheus - i havent seen too much in the way of alternatives so - that is where the decision has to be made. And i agree, i probably do need to simply get hold of one of these and see how they perform. I do really appreciate all the help and advice. In terms of the ES, is there a focal length that is considered Best In Class, which i could aim to get,  in order to try? Furthermore are their focal lengths to avoid? In terms of morpheus, if i go down that route, i would probably aim for 9 and or 12 - 

I feel my 5.5mm UWA Meade is fine in that higher power slot so

[Don Pensack]

2 hours ago, hal9550 said:

That is interesting, its probably the first time i have heard that about any morph - supposedly the 14mm is the odd one out - perhaps focal length specific issues - 

Iv heard nothing but praise for Pentax, without a doubt - the price is what is keeping from them. Even limiting myself to 3 focal lengths (which probably would work) id be looking at 1000 odd - and these are 70 degree, as opposed to 82. I know they have 2 focal lengths in the 80+ range but they are well outside my price bracket. i think they are 23 and 16 - wihich kinda leave a gap between 16 and 5 - 

They may just be a bridge too far for my budget -

Similar to my decision on Masuyama, despite wonderful write ups at F10 - they just cost too much at my focal length needs (the masuyama supposedly has awful Eye relief too)

The original Morph design maxed out at 14mm.  That was the longest focal length made.  Multiple requests for something longer led the factory to design a 17mm +/- and it took 3 prototypes and 3 years to come out with the 17.5mm, the longest focal length possible in the design.

It ended up at 72° to keep within the limits of the design.  It has a bit longer eye relief than the other focal lengths.  Note that the Tele Vue Delos maxed out at 17.3mm and 72° as well.

The 17.5mm isn't as wide as the other focal lengths, but feels the same in use, so it easily fits in the same series.

Once the 17.5mm (actually 17.2mm) came out, the 14mm became the one not in the spacing sequence.

I actually prefer the 14mm, but that is just because the 17.2mm yields a bit too low a magnification for the objects I typically seek.

I usually start out the night with the 14mm which is also my "finder" eyepiece.

 

[Don Pensack]

3 minutes ago, hal9550 said:

Yea its basically ES82 or Morpheus - i haven't seen too much in the way of alternatives so - that is where the decision has to be made. And i agree, i probably do need to simply get hold of one of these and see how they perform. I do really appreciate all the help and advice. In terms of the ES, is there a focal length that is considered Best In Class, which i could aim to get,  in order to try? Furthermore are their focal lengths to avoid? In terms of morpheus, if i go down that route, i would probably aim for 9 and or 12 - 

I feel my 5.5mm UWA Meade is fine in that higher power slot so

I recommend the 12.5mm (actually 12.4mm) because it is quite sharp and easy to use, and more likely to be a low enough power to side-step Seeing.

[Bivanus]

Two EP's I would think would be worth trying would be the ES 4.7 and 6.7mm 82° , however , your 5.5mm is smack in the middle so maybe go with a 8.8mm.

Explore Scientific Eyepiece 82° Ar 8,8mm 1.25" (astroshop.eu)

This EP's were just replaced by 4.5mm/6.5mm/8.5mm LER variants that are errr..hmmm...maybe LERer but not necesarry better 😅 You can still find some stock (like in the link) or , of course ,second-hand.

[Ratlet]

24 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

I recommend the 12.5mm (actually 12.4mm) because it is quite sharp and easy to use, and more likely to be a low enough power to side-step Seeing.

Tangentially related, but I've found that for raw observing my 12mm BST gets the most use out of all my eyepieces, irrelevant of scope.  

I'm about 90% convinced that about 12mm is the workhorse focal length for an eyepiece. 

The 17.5" is a nice eyepiece (I have one) but I think for the amount it gets used I could probably live without it.  I'd consider swapping it for a 12.5mm but I don't think the bst needs to be upgraded.

If I were looking to start off though, 12.5mm Morpheus.

Edit:  I should probably add, despite my account age I am not particularly experienced, it's just something I've noticed.  There are people with far more experience of observing and of proper eyepieces.

Edited Tuesday at 19:15 by Ratlet

[Bivanus]

🙂 As @Ratlet said "tangentially related" I can confirm my 13mm T6 Nag is a bussy little EP , if by chance you find a good offer as second-hand please don't disconsider it just because is green 

[bosun21]

It just shows how personal eyepieces actually are. The 17.5mm Morpheus was my most used and the 14mm the least. Probably due to the longer focal lengths of my scopes at the time. The others were used frequently as well.