8" Bresser Dobsonian - Finderscope Replacement

[nige745]

Hello SGL folks.

I want to replace the finderscope for a better one. I am looking at buying the https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/skywatcher-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html.

I would like to mount the finderscope on a https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/astro-essentials-3-way-finder-shoe-base.html.

This gives me extra space for a Telrad & something else, not sure what yet.

Can you advise me what shoe/base I will need to mount the the 3 way finder onto the OTA? Would it be one of these https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/explore-scientific-hybrid-finder-scope-base-black.html?

Is there a difference between a shoe & a base or are they one of the same?

Is this finderscope a decent choice?

Is the 3 way finder a good idea?

 

Thanks.

 

Nigel

 

[Louis D]

You're going to need to replace the finder shoe/base with just a regular Vixen/Synta dovetail finder shoe (mounting base).  As long as you never plan to mount the Bresser finder again, you don't need to buy the hybrid style shoe.

I have the GSO made RACI under another brand.  I think the Astro Essentials 9x50 Right-Angled, Erecting Finderscope is most similar from FLO.  It's a very good finderscope.  There's probably very little difference between it and the Sky-Watcher version, though, so I would buy on price.

Edited August 17 by Louis D

[Louis D]

Here's a couple of variations of what I mount in 3-way finder mount:

 

RACI/GLP/QuikFinder

 

RACI/SkEye on phone/QuikFinder

 

Solar observing: Solar Filtered RACI and Solar Projection Finder

[nige745]

20 minutes ago, Louis D said:

You're going to need to replace the finder shoe/base with just a regular Vixen/Synta dovetail finder shoe (mounting base).  As long as you never plan to mount the Bresser finder again, you don't need to buy the hybrid style shoe.

I thought I might need a dovetail finder shoe. The shape of the bottom of the shoe on my scope looks different to the one you posted. The shoe on my scope looks angled at the sides. I haven't received the scope yet so I can only go on photos from the sellers site. I was worried that a flat shoe might not fit properly, this is why I'm asking.

I also don't intend on using the Bresser finderscope.

Edited August 17 by nige745

[Stu_53N_002W]

The finder scope is very similar to my StellaLyra 8x 50 which I like. Finder scopes really help nail down targets far more than naked eye red dot type. Although the red dot does do the ball park.

I also have the threeway bracket with StarSence and a red dot. Not used in anger yet but sturdy enough. However, I'm only looking through one, the StarSence is just a camera. It's also mounted on a 6" SCT so a bit of space to view from.

The right angle is a good choice for a dobsonian.

[nige745]

10 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Here's a couple of variations of what I mount in 3-way finder mount:

 

RACI/GLP/QuikFinder

 

RACI/SkEye on phone/QuikFinder

 

Solar observing: Solar Filtered RACI and Solar Projection Finder

They look great and is what I'm looking to do. I was going to go for a Telrad. Is there a reason why you chose a QuikFinder?

[John]

You can get an adapter to fit Skywatcher type finders to Bresser / Meade finder shoes. They are on e.bay for around £12 I seem to recall. The alternative is to replace the Bresser finder shoe with a Skywatcher compatible one.

 

[nige745]

24 minutes ago, Stu_53N_002W said:

The finder scope is very similar to my StellaLyra 8x 50 which I like. Finder scopes really help nail down targets far more than naked eye red dot type. Although the red dot does do the ball park.

I also have the threeway bracket with StarSence and a red dot. Not used in anger yet but sturdy enough. However, I'm only looking through one, the StarSence is just a camera. It's also mounted on a 6" SCT so a bit of space to view from.

The right angle is a good choice for a dobsonian.

I have looked at the StellaLyra 8x 50. I chose the Sky-Watcher due to the it being only £6 more & the reviews were better. 

I have been advised by 'Second Time Around' to get a cheap SSE scope & mount the phone bracket on my Dob.

Now I've seen Louis phone mount I am now thinking I could use one with AstroHopper on it instead?

The right angle will save my creaking back a bit, I hope.

Edited August 17 by nige745

[John]

An RACI optical finder alongside an illuminated reticule type (Telrad, Quikfinder etc) is an ideal combination on a dob I find.

 

Edited August 17 by John

[nige745]

23 minutes ago, John said:

You can get an adapter to fit Skywatcher type finders to Bresser / Meade finder shoes. They are on e.bay for around £12 I seem to recall. The alternative is to replace the Bresser finder shoe with a Skywatcher compatible one.

 

I've looked at these adapters. I was worried that I would have my 3 way, in an adapter, in a shoe & was worried about the stability?

Is this the type of adapter you were referring to?

Edited August 17 by nige745

[John]

19 minutes ago, nige745 said:

I've looked at these adapters. I was worried that I would have my 3 way, in an adapter, in a shoe & was worried about the stability?

Is this the type of adapter you were referring to?

Yes. I agree though that having one of those plus 2 finders hanging off it might be less than ideal.

Personally I'd replace the Bresser finder foot with a Skywatcher compatible one and abandon using the Bresser finder.

This was my arrangement on my 12 inch (Orion Optics) dob:

Admittedly, you have more room on a 12 inch to place things.

 

 

[Zermelo]

The Synta-style shoes are available from dozens of sellers on the auction sites, mostly coming from China and costing as little ss £8. I have found them to be very secure (I only buy the ones with two screws to hold the finder).

I have replaced three or four Bresser shoes with these, but the spacing of the Bresser mounting screws is just too large for the shoes as supplied. I extend the slots in the shoes with a needle file.

If you'd rather not do that, one of the adapters mentioned above might be better for you. I've noted these in the past, some are plastic and some alloy; I would steer clear of the plastic ones. It's hard to judge in advance how stable the 3-way would be when used with them.

 

[nige745]

2 minutes ago, John said:

Yes. I agree though that having one of those plus 2 finders hanging off it might be less than ideal.

Personally I'd replace the Bresser finder foot with a Skywatcher compatible one and abandon using the Bresser finder.

I'm definitely going to replace the Bresser finder.

Is there a reason you decided to have a Rigel QF instead of a Telrad?

[nige745]

10 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

The Synta-style shoes are available from dozens of sellers on the auction sites, mostly coming from China and costing as little ss £8. I have found them to be very secure (I only buy the ones with two screws to hold the finder).

I have replaced three or four Bresser shoes with these, but the spacing of the Bresser mounting screws is just too large for the shoes as supplied. I extend the slots in the shoes with a needle file.

If you'd rather not do that, one of the adapters mentioned above might be better for you. I've noted these in the past, some are plastic and some alloy; I would steer clear of the plastic ones. It's hard to judge in advance how stable the 3-way would be when used with them.

 

I was looking for a shoe with 2 screws to hold the finder. The one pictured is off Amazon £7.99 & gets good reviews.

I'm glad you mentioned the needle file & extending the slots. I will do the same if the screws don't match up 👍

[John]

7 minutes ago, nige745 said:

I'm definitely going to replace the Bresser finder.

Is there a reason you decided to have a Rigel QF instead of a Telrad?

I needed to keep the weight / bulk down on the upper end of that scope. Some of my eyepieces weighed 1kg+ !

I also found the eye positioning with the Rigel fitted in better with the 8x50 RACI finder so I could move from the Rigel to the RACI and then to the eyepiece smoothly. 

I've owed a few Telrads and they work well enough - just a bit bulky for what they are.

[Zermelo]

10 minutes ago, nige745 said:

I was looking for a shoe with 2 screws to hold the finder. The one pictured is off Amazon £7.99 & gets good reviews.

I'm glad you mentioned the needle file & extending the slots. I will do the same if the screws don't match up 👍

Yes, that looks identical to the ones I bought.

[nige745]

5 minutes ago, John said:

I needed to keep the weight / bulk down on the upper end of that scope. Some of my eyepieces weighed 1kg+ !

I also found the eye positioning with the Rigel fitted in better with the 8x50 RACI finder so I could move from the Rigel to the RACI and then to the eyepiece smoothly. 

I've owed a few Telrads and they work well enough - just a bit bulky for what they are.

Wow 1kg! I didn't even know they could weigh that much. I'm finding out lots of stuff I didn't know!

I've been reading another post https://astro.catshill.com/finding-and-finder-scopes/ not read it all yet. It mentions: "Do bear in mind that adding a RACI (480g), Telrad (308g) and a smartphone plus bracket will move the centre of balance. A counterweight on the opposite side (I use a magnet) will help especially when the OTA is near horizontal."

This seems a good idea?

 

[nige745]

2 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

Yes, that looks identical to the ones I bought.

Brilliant, I'll order one. There's so many things I didn't factor in to all of this. I was contemplating getting a 12" dob at first. I got lots of advice on SGL with my first post. Really glad I didn't get the 12" for a few reasons. One of those is the amount of other stuff I need for my scope that I just didn't consider or to be more precise, just didn't know about.

[PeterStudz]

Don’t forget dew shields which obviously also add weight to the front.

Personally I’m not a fan of having a phone near eyepiece/finder. It just gets in the way as well as adding more weight to the front. I mount my phone towards the centre of balance. Works well, doesn’t get in the way and doesn’t noticeably unbalance the OTA when you remove/add phone.

 

[900SL]

Nice rig there Peter!

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, nige745 said:

I was going to go for a Telrad. Is there a reason why you chose a QuikFinder?

I prefer the Telrad when used by itself on a Dob, but when mounted with other finders or by itself on a small refractor or Mak/SCT, the much smaller size of the QuikFinder is a huge plus.

[nige745]

2 hours ago, PeterStudz said:

Don’t forget dew shields which obviously also add weight to the front.

Personally I’m not a fan of having a phone near eyepiece/finder. It just gets in the way as well as adding more weight to the front. I mount my phone towards the centre of balance. Works well, doesn’t get in the way and doesn’t noticeably unbalance the OTA when you remove/add phone.

 

That looks really good! I had forgotten about dew shields 🙄 What are they made out of & did you buy them or make them?

That's a great idea with the phone mount, where did you get it from and how have you mounted it to the OTA? 

I also like the adjustable stool.

[John]

4 hours ago, nige745 said:

Wow 1kg! I didn't even know they could weigh that much. I'm finding out lots of stuff I didn't know!

I've been reading another post https://astro.catshill.com/finding-and-finder-scopes/ not read it all yet. It mentions: "Do bear in mind that adding a RACI (480g), Telrad (308g) and a smartphone plus bracket will move the centre of balance. A counterweight on the opposite side (I use a magnet) will help especially when the OTA is near horizontal."

This seems a good idea?

 

I don't use a smartphone but the other stuff does add weight so I did use a counterweight system at the other end of the scope tube. Mine was a magnetic strip to which I could attach / remove weights as needed. 

I never found a dew shield necessary on my dobs but I do use a light shield to keep ambient light away from the top of the tube where it can illuminate the secondary mirror / mirror supports / focuser drawtube which leads to reduced contrast when observing deep sky objects.

My light shield was of a "half moon" design and held on with velcro tape around the tube.

 

 

[nige745]

5 minutes ago, John said:

I don't use a smartphone but the other stuff does add weight so I did use a counterweight system at the other end of the scope tube. Mine was a magnetic strip to which I could attach / remove weights as needed. 

I never found a dew shield necessary on my dobs but I do use a light shield to keep ambient light away from the top of the tube where it can illuminate the secondary mirror / mirror supports / focuser drawtube which leads to reduced contrast when observing deep sky objects.

My light shield was of a "half moon" design and held on with velcro tape around the tube.

 

Does the light shield do the same as flocking? Surprise, surprise, I've not heard of a light shield 😆

Edited August 17 by nige745

[Ratlet]

11 minutes ago, nige745 said:

Does the light shield do the same as flocking? Surprise, surprise, I've not heard of a light shield 😆

A Light shield stops stray light entering the tube.  It won't stop the secondary dewing up as much as a full dew shield though.

I think a counterbalance weight is a good idea regardless as it just makes balancing the scope a dawdle.  I got a cheap magnetic welding angle bracket from lidl and covered it in flocking to stop it marring the scope tube.  Just slide it up and down as required.  Once I got SSE I only use it or my quickfinder on the dob.  I do put the RACI on it, but that is only when I'm done for the evening as I've nowhere else to store it.