Mini Report of My Ritchey Cretien First Light! ( M13 Image/hardly Post processed yet! )

[wesdon1]

Hi all. So 2 nights back I got first light with my new ( used ) RC 'scope. 

My biggest fears going out was the small FOV. My fears were ( partially! ) justified! Star alignment was a bit tricky, but that in part was down to my rubbish finder scope. First purchase next will be a top notch finder scope and I've already ordered a finder bracket, as I only have one fitted to the 'scope at the mo'. So I was having to slide out the the finder 'scope and slide in the finder/guider 'scope after star alignment completed. I must admit it was quite stressful finding the stars for alignment, due to aforementioned rubbish finder 'scope and small FOV. The first star was miles out! LOL.

I Polar Aligned with my iPolar and as always it was easy and spot on ( for any newbies, if you want the best chance at finding stars/objects, and good tracking, it all begins with really good PA, and good levelling of Tripod, in my (( admittedly! )) limited imaging experience! ) 

When time came to find my target, M13 Globular Star Cluster in Hercules, I first selected the bright star Vega, as a test of how accurate my slewing was. I did this because of the limited FOV. You can very easily get lost up there if your mount doesn't slew to your chosen object accurately. Happily my PA was perfect and Vega was almost dead centre in the FOV! I then selected M13 and the mount slewed to it again putting M13 almost dead centre FOV, which was such a relief! THAT in such a small FOV was impressive! ( at least for me/my relatively inexperienced eyes, it was! LOL )

My only mistake of the night was bringing my astro-modded camera outside, instead of my un-modded camera, so my subs are red tinted! ( maybe more experienced members have any tips about post processing the red tinge out!? )

One potential weakness of this 'scope is the focuser. It is good in that it has the fine 10:1 focus adjustment knob, but it struggles with only a friction drive system. I had to tighten up the friction quite a bit to avoid slippage when 'scope was pointing high up around 70+ degrees. Not a major headache, I managed just fine, but if I were to have heavier gear, i.e. a filter drawer etc then I would definitely need a rack n pinion upgraded focuser.

So I got just over an hour on M13 before the Sun started to rise. I wanted to grab a few minutes video files of the planet Saturn as it rose in the east but a large Tree prevented that! I'll get her later in the year! Below are the details of my subs etc.

So final ( limited ) conclusions...? I had a much less difficult time imaging with small FOV than I expected, to be fair. The 'scope actually weighs LESS than my 8" Newtonian Reflector, which surprised me! ( 8.6kg including all 3 extension rings, and 9kg dead for the Newt' Reflector ) My night went essentially without a hitch, and I came back indoors with a huge smile on my face! I will be using this 'scope extensively in future so I'll report back with my experiences as they occur! 

NOTE TO TOTAL NEWBIES! I strongly recommend you do not start out with a RC 'scope as your first 'scope! The limited field of view will make things really frustrating for you! get yourself a small refractor or even a small'ish Newtonian Reflector, you'll have a much more enjoyable and stress free time learning the ropes!

Thanks for reading/looking! I've never written a report about a 'scope before so please allow for my rubbish writing! 

Kindest Regards, Wes ( Liverpool. Bortle 7 )

 

Telescope - iOptron 200mm aperture/1624mm Focal length Ritchey Cretien optical design. 8.6kg in weight with all 3 extension rings

Mount - SkyWatcher HEQ5 ProM13.processed.1.TIF

Camera - Canon T3i "astromodified"

Guide Camera - ZWO ASI 120MM

Filter - Optolong L-PRO ( Canon EOS Clip version )

61.5 minutes total exposure @ 184 x 20 sec. Subs

ISO - 800

Software - DSS, Photoshop

 

 

Edited June 25 by wesdon1
missed a bit!

[Stickey]

Great result and thanks for the review. 

[wesdon1]

1 minute ago, Stickey said:

Great result and thanks for the review. 

@Stickey Thank You! 😊👍

[Norris Adams]

Hi Wes - Grand pic and a nice report too!

The yellow and blue stars (old and new populations I think) are clearly visible and are nicely 'pinpointed'.

If I may dare suggest something - I wonder if you could you darken the sky a little and deepen the contrast? It would surely enhance the result I think...?

I know what you mean about the problems of a narrow FoV. 

My first camera was an Altair 327C (on a Skywatcher 150i). I didn't really understand until I used the pairing just how compact the field of view would be - and hence how important good initial alignment was. Like you, I ended up routinely carrying out a two-stage alignment). First to get a 'foothold on the sky' and then by using a stellar target close to the intended DSO target, fine tuning the process.

If I used the right intermediate star I was only ever 'hopping' a few degrees to my intended DSO target.

My new camera (ASI 183MC)  gives me a FoV that is four time bigger, but even now I still find the 2 stage approach helpful!

Norris

 

[wesdon1]

46 minutes ago, Norris Adams said:

Hi Wes - Grand pic and a nice report too!

The yellow and blue stars (old and new populations I think) are clearly visible and are nicely 'pinpointed'.

If I may dare suggest something - I wonder if you could you darken the sky a little and deepen the contrast? It would surely enhance the result I think...?

I know what you mean about the problems of a narrow FoV. 

My first camera was an Altair 327C (on a Skywatcher 150i). I didn't really understand until I used the pairing just how compact the field of view would be - and hence how important good initial alignment was. Like you, I ended up routinely carrying out a two-stage alignment). First to get a 'foothold on the sky' and then by using a stellar target close to the intended DSO target, fine tuning the process.

If I used the right intermediate star I was only ever 'hopping' a few degrees to my intended DSO target.

My new camera (ASI 183MC)  gives me a FoV that is four time bigger, but even now I still find the 2 stage approach helpful!

Norris

 

@Norris Adams Hi and thank you for kind words Norris! 

yes I agree 100% Norris, I need to darken the background night sky, I should have also mentioned in the report, this M13 image is only lightly ( hardly! ) post processed, so I can/will definitely find improvements in the data! 

Your technique for alignment seems very sensible and wise Norris, especially with a narrow FOV! I was really anxious about the narrow FOV going outside! I'm still learning about the post processing side of the hobby!

Oh brilliant! I have wanted a 183C for a while now! Is yours the cooled or non cooled version?

Kind regards, Wes ( Liverpool, England, Bortle 7 )

[Louis D]

I hope you don't mind, but I ran your TIF file through my ancient PSE 2.0 and did a bit of unsharp masking, adjusting black levels, and increasing saturation to bring up the stars and their colors while dimming the background:

The central region still has a bit of blue glow to it, but it's tolerable.

[bosun21]

Nice report Wes. I have previously owned the 6" classical cassegrain so what you say about accurate alignment being so important is spot on. I now have a 180 Maksutov which I use for visual and planetary imaging. After I polar align each time I immediately carry out the Synscan polar alignment procedure which is not only quick but is also accurate. I usually settle for my errors being measured in arc seconds. This is probably overkill for planetary imaging and EAA but it's a good habit I've fallen into. Nice M13 you captured which is showing good star resolution. With my Mak I found that a decent RDF is far better for scopes with a narrow FOV.

[wesdon1]

2 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I hope you don't mind, but I ran your TIF file through my ancient PSE 2.0 and did a bit of unsharp masking, adjusting black levels, and increasing saturation to bring up the stars and their colors while dimming the background:

The central region still has a bit of blue glow to it, but it's tolerable.

@Louis D Hi and not at all! Thank You! You've made it much better, thanks! I am still learning the ropes with post processing! 

Kindest Regards, Wes.

[wesdon1]

8 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Nice report Wes. I have previously owned the 6" classical cassegrain so what you say about accurate alignment being so important is spot on. I now have a 180 Maksutov which I use for visual and planetary imaging. After I polar align each time I immediately carry out the Synscan polar alignment procedure which is not only quick but is also accurate. I usually settle for my errors being measured in arc seconds. This is probably overkill for planetary imaging and EAA but it's a good habit I've fallen into. Nice M13 you captured which is showing good star resolution. With my Mak I found that a decent RDF is far better for scopes with a narrow FOV.

@bosun21 Hi and thank you for kind words. I haven't ever imaged a Globular Star Cluster before so I'm still learning!

Oh right? I've never actually done a synscan star alignment before, so I'll definitely take your advice and try it out, thanks!

I almost bought a 180 Mak a couple months ago. They look brilliant for planetary and small object imaging!

I feel really stupid asking this question! LOL. But what is a RDF please? is it a focuser?

[bosun21]

1 minute ago, wesdon1 said:

@bosun21 Hi and thank you for kind words. I haven't ever imaged a Globular Star Cluster before so I'm still learning!

Oh right? I've never actually done a synscan star alignment before, so I'll definitely take your advice and try it out, thanks!

I almost bought a 180 Mak a couple months ago. They look brilliant for planetary and small object imaging!

I feel really stupid asking this question! LOL. But what is a RDF please? is it a focuser?

Red dot finder 👍.

[wesdon1]

1 minute ago, bosun21 said:

Red dot finder 👍.

@bosun21 OOHH LOL!! I'm such a dope sometimes, sorry! 

[Louis D]

On my 127 Mak for visual observing, I prefer both an RDF (or Rigel QuikFinder) and an 8x50 RACI finder scope on a multi-shoe finder extension.  Something similar to the images below on my 90mm APO, with a GLP added for good measure:

Edited June 25 by Louis D

[Ags]

I am really enjoying my RC6. I use a reducer but my sensor is about a third of the size of yours so your FOV looks huge to me  I solved the "finding" problem by using an ASIAIR, which controls the mount and gets you anywhere with pinpoint accuracy by plate solving. The only thing it hasn't found for me is M27 - I think there's too many stars there... It finds M27 fine, but fails on the last confirmatory plate solve!

[Norris Adams]

17 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

@Norris Adams Hi and thank you for kind words Norris! 

yes I agree 100% Norris, I need to darken the background night sky, I should have also mentioned in the report, this M13 image is only lightly ( hardly! ) post processed, so I can/will definitely find improvements in the data! 

Your technique for alignment seems very sensible and wise Norris, especially with a narrow FOV! I was really anxious about the narrow FOV going outside! I'm still learning about the post processing side of the hobby!

Oh brilliant! I have wanted a 183C for a while now! Is yours the cooled or non cooled version?

Kind regards, Wes ( Liverpool, England, Bortle 7 )

Hi Wes - I went for uncooled in the end.

The weight of the cooled version and the additional cost pushed me towards this choice. I was a bit worried that the heavier train (acting at some distance from the scope's pivot point) might put a bit too much weight on the Go-To gearing. Also, since I major in EAA rather than full astro-imaging, I felt that I could probably get away with the lower spec. (and so it proved)!

Regards,

Norris

Norris

[tomato]

Great image Wes and respect from me for choosing an RC as your first scope. I nearly went that route but chickened out at the last moment.

Steve

[Norris Adams]

Hi Wes - Here's my 'two-penneth'.

I had a go at enhancing your image in GIMP> hope you don't mind.

I may have overblown the core a little!

Regards,

Norris

[wesdon1]

On 25/06/2024 at 20:32, Louis D said:

On my 127 Mak for visual observing, I prefer both an RDF (or Rigel QuikFinder) and an 8x50 RACI finder scope on a multi-shoe finder extension.  Something similar to the images below on my 90mm APO, with a GLP added for good measure:

@Louis D Wow that's some setup! Where would I find that triple finder 'scope bracket please?

[wesdon1]

On 26/06/2024 at 10:18, tomato said:

Great image Wes and respect from me for choosing an RC as your first scope. I nearly went that route but chickened out at the last moment.

Steve

@tomato Hi and thanks for the compliment but I am no brave guy, this RC 'scope is about my 10th 'scope to date! LOL. It is my first foray into imaging with an RC 'scope/narrow FOV though. I would best describe my current skill level as "advanced beginner" or maybe intermediate level astrophotographer.

I included the total beginners advice in the mini report because I didn't want a total beginner making the mistake of getting a RC 'scope as their very first imaging or indeed visual 'scope, for reasons we both understand!

Thank You again for kind words and commenting!

Kind Regards, Wes

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

@Louis D Wow that's some setup! Where would I find that triple finder 'scope bracket please?

Check ebay, that's where I got mine from.  Here are three listings I pulled up on ebay UK today:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395420704422?itmmeta=01J1FB13K55Q5PN2CX2JB5HHVR&hash=item5c10e91ea6:g:CrIAAOSw-jNmTcN8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABELYLBqNiCCdmoYqWDncNTv7Q%2FLX2SBt18dT5spjh2D9hIMyQxXGDFdSUr6xhP4pZyDHmrXLixcfFRlqI0eDfqlLH1IQNXQk6Cx3o2mchopggGZtqqC35sWK%2FHYNA29HnRlZ6qKL8tZd5JYs3HBUGP7EJItxfaeGlpqtzMj%2B1OEZhsnKngvLS1AZnNPOvjUANbFsbN%2B30LqcfeO%2FwEO%2BbwZqlK4sjsta0Zm6X1Jq4Ap1%2BCLG93FhdxQ0kFuvmgDj9nXhbRZFNPBzDaAPPmqqXZOBUPeMrKgXiq6Pb5z0Ny%2BUZS3nMimrr1%2F7qecPt6DL8VPBlhBkBFZQQw8aZyeTuoshpR4EB6mHFV8lMqYTwbY0v|tkp%3ABFBM0rmE64tk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394108494415?itmmeta=01J1FB13K58DSGFADZB8E4S29M&hash=item5bc2b2624f:g:URcAAOSwOM1ioa~0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABEEA9cRDufE550XYCWhvKLrnHpZLLIax0UBT0D4L0lKITcTfViCO3RC8WC03VhJEyitPcHX3URjCt5kUXsv0IBtyst%2Bi0XfZhRpWkEYvRmvlRHG7w59FZbQaBIjnjGy%2B2QifytTkua7LPRCz7wv4GX6g7DvDoVMxliZMI2eV6oN2v1WKpOTkCQOhGwYpRfBFqZoHLUL5Y3QQuzpFozG7277vVNg93pubCnORT7elve8IcveE3bbKlMQ9SW%2FAlpKM4eiN1bowh4Z%2Blfx0A7FG6%2FQK2iQt%2Bp%2BUXuwdTa0zCdP0AaOs%2F4oI%2FDt4SoTn7chcG9meGT7YePT9bYhZPfLsC7MV2szD%2BweaCHj3T%2BpCq0Ivq|tkp%3ABFBM0rmE64tk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176411449604?itmmeta=01J1FB13K79YZ1M6PTHTXYMW32&hash=item2912f11904:g:Gb8AAOSwm7JmYUEq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABENsk1PRPZLQOmzCgx%2BnrP9Zpg6No37t9W0ZZ0%2BNE9ctMTLsMP1bmtQuVcMs6WVzmsf2iqantknursWc%2FoC0Cg8yoWfaAD%2B0r1kQz0CPvIbyz9z5JuaFI%2FhhxVgSIW9wpXqQJ0RMxFovGnitCqUXP4j3laZ8v7hWCrj9dCiOxDE1O8%2Fx2Dt6r1M0iVun8L0f%2F8LXE%2B%2FNnBKVKSBrkpnwit9k%2Bc9PnJaJoDa4aWCIGpoen8Mf26AIouwUBdLQPc9NMnfCMkiSR9%2FR9fPGH7nmD8%2Fys7QZ15VHM7rxMV8whtFMHO9iKJLW6Qvb9xweDUrL%2BCpVGkTDryfgmXmXfJOEVYE71MzFhxt02vz4BO0QbR2Gf|tkp%3ABk9SR9i5hOuLZA

[tomato]

Are eBay in the running for the world’s longest links?☺️

[ollypenrice]

Your advice on not starting with a long FL scope is very sound but well done.

The leveling or not of piers comes up repeatedly but, if they do need leveling, Mesu owners are going to be in trouble. 

They do not need to be level, as you can see. They need to be polar aligned.

I agree that an RDF or Telrad is a big help. I greatly prefer the Telrad, though it's larger. It runs on proper batteries which run for days if you forget to turn them off.

Nice crisp stars in your image. As seen on here, the core looks saturated in places. The million dollar question is, 'Does it look saturated in the linear, unstretched, image?' If not there is no need for it to become saturated during the stretch. It's just a matter of finding the right curve.

Olly

 

 

[wesdon1]

On 28/06/2024 at 12:54, Louis D said:

Check ebay, that's where I got mine from.  Here are three listings I pulled up on ebay UK today:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395420704422?itmmeta=01J1FB13K55Q5PN2CX2JB5HHVR&hash=item5c10e91ea6:g:CrIAAOSw-jNmTcN8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABELYLBqNiCCdmoYqWDncNTv7Q%2FLX2SBt18dT5spjh2D9hIMyQxXGDFdSUr6xhP4pZyDHmrXLixcfFRlqI0eDfqlLH1IQNXQk6Cx3o2mchopggGZtqqC35sWK%2FHYNA29HnRlZ6qKL8tZd5JYs3HBUGP7EJItxfaeGlpqtzMj%2B1OEZhsnKngvLS1AZnNPOvjUANbFsbN%2B30LqcfeO%2FwEO%2BbwZqlK4sjsta0Zm6X1Jq4Ap1%2BCLG93FhdxQ0kFuvmgDj9nXhbRZFNPBzDaAPPmqqXZOBUPeMrKgXiq6Pb5z0Ny%2BUZS3nMimrr1%2F7qecPt6DL8VPBlhBkBFZQQw8aZyeTuoshpR4EB6mHFV8lMqYTwbY0v|tkp%3ABFBM0rmE64tk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394108494415?itmmeta=01J1FB13K58DSGFADZB8E4S29M&hash=item5bc2b2624f:g:URcAAOSwOM1ioa~0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABEEA9cRDufE550XYCWhvKLrnHpZLLIax0UBT0D4L0lKITcTfViCO3RC8WC03VhJEyitPcHX3URjCt5kUXsv0IBtyst%2Bi0XfZhRpWkEYvRmvlRHG7w59FZbQaBIjnjGy%2B2QifytTkua7LPRCz7wv4GX6g7DvDoVMxliZMI2eV6oN2v1WKpOTkCQOhGwYpRfBFqZoHLUL5Y3QQuzpFozG7277vVNg93pubCnORT7elve8IcveE3bbKlMQ9SW%2FAlpKM4eiN1bowh4Z%2Blfx0A7FG6%2FQK2iQt%2Bp%2BUXuwdTa0zCdP0AaOs%2F4oI%2FDt4SoTn7chcG9meGT7YePT9bYhZPfLsC7MV2szD%2BweaCHj3T%2BpCq0Ivq|tkp%3ABFBM0rmE64tk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176411449604?itmmeta=01J1FB13K79YZ1M6PTHTXYMW32&hash=item2912f11904:g:Gb8AAOSwm7JmYUEq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABENsk1PRPZLQOmzCgx%2BnrP9Zpg6No37t9W0ZZ0%2BNE9ctMTLsMP1bmtQuVcMs6WVzmsf2iqantknursWc%2FoC0Cg8yoWfaAD%2B0r1kQz0CPvIbyz9z5JuaFI%2FhhxVgSIW9wpXqQJ0RMxFovGnitCqUXP4j3laZ8v7hWCrj9dCiOxDE1O8%2Fx2Dt6r1M0iVun8L0f%2F8LXE%2B%2FNnBKVKSBrkpnwit9k%2Bc9PnJaJoDa4aWCIGpoen8Mf26AIouwUBdLQPc9NMnfCMkiSR9%2FR9fPGH7nmD8%2Fys7QZ15VHM7rxMV8whtFMHO9iKJLW6Qvb9xweDUrL%2BCpVGkTDryfgmXmXfJOEVYE71MzFhxt02vz4BO0QbR2Gf|tkp%3ABk9SR9i5hOuLZA

 

On 29/06/2024 at 08:50, ollypenrice said:

Your advice on not starting with a long FL scope is very sound but well done.

The leveling or not of piers comes up repeatedly but, if they do need leveling, Mesu owners are going to be in trouble. 

They do not need to be level, as you can see. They need to be polar aligned.

I agree that an RDF or Telrad is a big help. I greatly prefer the Telrad, though it's larger. It runs on proper batteries which run for days if you forget to turn them off.

Nice crisp stars in your image. As seen on here, the core looks saturated in places. The million dollar question is, 'Does it look saturated in the linear, unstretched, image?' If not there is no need for it to become saturated during the stretch. It's just a matter of finding the right curve.

Olly

 

 

@ollypenrice Hi Olly and thank you for your advice! 

Olly, the Mesu mount in pic is indeed level. It's the polar scope section that is on a large angle? ( please forgive me if I sound stupid, I am still learning! LOL ) It's base is indeed level? What am I missing? 

( My "theory" about the "level of mount" importance debate is as follows...,)

The mount's Tripod does need to be level because although the Polar 'Scope is pointing perfectly at Polaris/perfectly polar aligned, if the mount/Tripod isn't level then declination tracking and possibly even right ascension tracking will be moving at different angles relative to the Earths surface, than it would if it was perfectly level? Almost as if you had your Lat and Long. coordinates incorrect, because the "level" of the mount/tripod effectively places it on a different part of Earths surface, keeping in mind Earth is spherical so "looking straight up for a person stood in Liverpool, will show them a different part of the night sky to say, someone looking straight up down in London?" So to conclude in my humble admittedly semi novice mind, levelling your Tripod does indeed matter!? 

I have done a quick sketch to try and explain what I mean. It's super basic but I hope it helps you understand my thinking on the issue?

( I'm anxious to see what your thoughts are about this!? )

Regards, Wes.

[wesdon1]

On 28/06/2024 at 12:54, Louis D said:

Check ebay, that's where I got mine from.  Here are three listings I pulled up on ebay UK today:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395420704422?itmmeta=01J1FB13K55Q5PN2CX2JB5HHVR&hash=item5c10e91ea6:g:CrIAAOSw-jNmTcN8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABELYLBqNiCCdmoYqWDncNTv7Q%2FLX2SBt18dT5spjh2D9hIMyQxXGDFdSUr6xhP4pZyDHmrXLixcfFRlqI0eDfqlLH1IQNXQk6Cx3o2mchopggGZtqqC35sWK%2FHYNA29HnRlZ6qKL8tZd5JYs3HBUGP7EJItxfaeGlpqtzMj%2B1OEZhsnKngvLS1AZnNPOvjUANbFsbN%2B30LqcfeO%2FwEO%2BbwZqlK4sjsta0Zm6X1Jq4Ap1%2BCLG93FhdxQ0kFuvmgDj9nXhbRZFNPBzDaAPPmqqXZOBUPeMrKgXiq6Pb5z0Ny%2BUZS3nMimrr1%2F7qecPt6DL8VPBlhBkBFZQQw8aZyeTuoshpR4EB6mHFV8lMqYTwbY0v|tkp%3ABFBM0rmE64tk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394108494415?itmmeta=01J1FB13K58DSGFADZB8E4S29M&hash=item5bc2b2624f:g:URcAAOSwOM1ioa~0&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABEEA9cRDufE550XYCWhvKLrnHpZLLIax0UBT0D4L0lKITcTfViCO3RC8WC03VhJEyitPcHX3URjCt5kUXsv0IBtyst%2Bi0XfZhRpWkEYvRmvlRHG7w59FZbQaBIjnjGy%2B2QifytTkua7LPRCz7wv4GX6g7DvDoVMxliZMI2eV6oN2v1WKpOTkCQOhGwYpRfBFqZoHLUL5Y3QQuzpFozG7277vVNg93pubCnORT7elve8IcveE3bbKlMQ9SW%2FAlpKM4eiN1bowh4Z%2Blfx0A7FG6%2FQK2iQt%2Bp%2BUXuwdTa0zCdP0AaOs%2F4oI%2FDt4SoTn7chcG9meGT7YePT9bYhZPfLsC7MV2szD%2BweaCHj3T%2BpCq0Ivq|tkp%3ABFBM0rmE64tk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176411449604?itmmeta=01J1FB13K79YZ1M6PTHTXYMW32&hash=item2912f11904:g:Gb8AAOSwm7JmYUEq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABENsk1PRPZLQOmzCgx%2BnrP9Zpg6No37t9W0ZZ0%2BNE9ctMTLsMP1bmtQuVcMs6WVzmsf2iqantknursWc%2FoC0Cg8yoWfaAD%2B0r1kQz0CPvIbyz9z5JuaFI%2FhhxVgSIW9wpXqQJ0RMxFovGnitCqUXP4j3laZ8v7hWCrj9dCiOxDE1O8%2Fx2Dt6r1M0iVun8L0f%2F8LXE%2B%2FNnBKVKSBrkpnwit9k%2Bc9PnJaJoDa4aWCIGpoen8Mf26AIouwUBdLQPc9NMnfCMkiSR9%2FR9fPGH7nmD8%2Fys7QZ15VHM7rxMV8whtFMHO9iKJLW6Qvb9xweDUrL%2BCpVGkTDryfgmXmXfJOEVYE71MzFhxt02vz4BO0QbR2Gf|tkp%3ABk9SR9i5hOuLZA

@Louis D Hi and thank you so much for the links! I almost spent £70 on a triplet bracket when your links showed me the exact same product for £15 including postage!! In this very expensive hobby, we really need to find the savings wherever we can! 

Kind Regards, Wes.

[bosun21]

15 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

( My "theory" about the "level of mount" importance debate is as follows...,)

I used to have the same strong belief as yourself that the tripod for an EQ mount had to be level just like it does for an alt/az setup. Giving it some deeper thought I discovered and proved that it doesn't. I have deliberately set up with an off level tripod but still polar aligned accurately. The tracking throughout the night was just as accurate. The mount will track in the same arc around the pivot point which is your polar alignment point regardless of the tripod level. Moving the tripod off level from a level setup will require a tweak of the alt/az adjustment bolts to keep Polaris in its proper placement. FWIW I still set up my rigs with a level or near to level tripod as a force of habit.

[ollypenrice]

On 01/07/2024 at 00:31, wesdon1 said:

 

@ollypenrice Hi Olly and thank you for your advice! 

Olly, the Mesu mount in pic is indeed level. It's the polar scope section that is on a large angle? ( please forgive me if I sound stupid, I am still learning! LOL ) It's base is indeed level? What am I missing? 

( My "theory" about the "level of mount" importance debate is as follows...,)

The mount's Tripod does need to be level because although the Polar 'Scope is pointing perfectly at Polaris/perfectly polar aligned, if the mount/Tripod isn't level then declination tracking and possibly even right ascension tracking will be moving at different angles relative to the Earths surface, than it would if it was perfectly level? Almost as if you had your Lat and Long. coordinates incorrect, because the "level" of the mount/tripod effectively places it on a different part of Earths surface, keeping in mind Earth is spherical so "looking straight up for a person stood in Liverpool, will show them a different part of the night sky to say, someone looking straight up down in London?" So to conclude in my humble admittedly semi novice mind, levelling your Tripod does indeed matter!? 

I have done a quick sketch to try and explain what I mean. It's super basic but I hope it helps you understand my thinking on the issue?

( I'm anxious to see what your thoughts are about this!? )

Regards, Wes.

Your sketch ignores the polar alignment which has been carried out on top of both tripods in the picture.

Imagine this: take your perfectly polar aligned mount and run a snug fitting steel shaft through its RA axis. Bolt one end of this shaft to the floor and the other to the wall. (Inconvenient, I know! ) Your polar alignment is now permanently fixed and perfect. Next, shorten your tripod legs so they don't reach the ground, loosen the level adjusters and swing the tripod around to an assortment of non-level positions. Does this alter your polar alignment? Nope, not at all.

Takahashi mounts have no leveling facility built into them but their polar alignment routine through the finderscope is by far the best in there is.

The Mesu in the picture is not level, the pier top is at the equatorial angle. The screw feet are there to perfect that angle, not to level anything.

Olly