beginner osc and filters

[TiffsAndAstro]

so i should have an uv/ir cut filter and filter drawer arriving with my 533 osc. let's not worry if its 1.25 or 2 inch in size yet. ill find out for sure in 12 to 15 days

my future filter options are then a dual narrowband Ha +O3 . is this also what some people refer to as a "light pollution filter" or is that a another kind of filter?

been watching some videos which confuse me. 

[GoldTop57]

It's a different type of filter although the dual narrowband will also cut out a lot of light pollution.

[TiffsAndAstro]

8 minutes ago, GoldTop57 said:

It's a different type of filter although the dual narrowband will also cut out a lot of light pollution.

thanks so a light pollution filter is something i should consider using instead of a uv/ir cut filter for broadband imaging?

[GoldTop57]

I have an Optolong L-Pro which I don't tend to use under Bortle 4 skies, I try to capture as many photons as possible. How bad is your LP?

[TiffsAndAstro]

2 minutes ago, GoldTop57 said:

I have an Optolong L-Pro which I don't tend to use under Bortle 4 skies, I try to capture as many photons as possible. How bad is your LP?

a surprising bortle6 but it seems higher from some of the gradients i get sometimes. but new camera, new start

plus a basic lp filter from flo doesn't seem too expensive to not try out at some point. also a use optolong seems reasonable too maybe.

Edited June 15 by TiffsAndAstro

[Stuart1971]

40 minutes ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

so i should have an uv/ir cut filter and filter drawer arriving with my 533 osc. let's not worry if its 1.25 or 2 inch in size yet. ill find out for sure in 12 to 15 days

my future filter options are then a dual narrowband Ha +O3 . is this also what some people refer to as a "light pollution filter" or is that a another kind of filter?

been watching some videos which confuse me. 

If you camera is the ASI version, and others may well be the same, there will be an UV/IR cut built into the sensor cover glass, so it’s not needed….🤔

[TiffsAndAstro]

7 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

If you camera is the ASI version, and others may well be the same, there will be an UV/IR cut built into the sensor cover glass, so it’s not needed….🤔

no mine will be the totally different svbony version and should have ar glass. there was a deal on to get a filter wheel and uv/ir cut filter.

on a side note does anyuse use two different nb filters with an osc?  or are the other possibly available emissions just to weak/difficult/something else for a noob and osc?

Edited June 15 by TiffsAndAstro
unjinxing

[Stuart1971]

6 minutes ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

no mine will be the totally different svbony version and should have ar glass. there was a deal on to get a filter wheel and uv/ir cut filter.

Ah, yes they are on offer ATM at a really good price….👍🏻

[GoldTop57]

You might want to consider the quad band filters which seem quite popular at the moment.

[Cosmic Geoff]

The original light pollution filters were designed to  cut the emission lines from sodium and mercury lamp street lighting.  These are being phased out in favor of LED lighting, which unfortunately has a continuous spectrum., not very amenable to filtering. Nowadays various things are sold as light pollution filters, but it seems they are relatively broadband filters.

The dual band filters (Ha and O3) are designed to pass only very narrow bands of emission from nebulae, which emit their energy in spectral lines. The narrower the band, the more expensive the filter.  There are also other filters available for other emission lines.  These filters have the incidental effect of cutting the sky light pollution, but this isn't a lot of use if you are imaging a white light object whose light is being cut down by the same proportion.

You should always use a uv/ir cut filter for broadband imaging if your camera has any response to the infrared.  (you need not worry about UV as it does not transmit well through glass, and camera sensitivity drops off).

With a Seestar S50, which has a built-in dual band filter (sometimes mis-described) you can see the effect for yourself:  nebulae + filter = fantastic, galaxy + filter = no better than without the filter.

If in doubt, look up the actual bandpass chart for the filter concerned, rather than relying on vague terminology.

[Stuart1971]

Just had a look at the camera only, and with the VAT and customs clearance shipping it’s about £225 seems a bargain, 

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 minute ago, GoldTop57 said:

You might want to consider the quad band filters which seem quite popular at the moment.

need to have a look into those. i (think i) understand using Ha +O3 the Ha goes into the red pixels and the O3 goes into green and blue pixels. But Hb is also red and not sure of the other popular (but weaker?) emissions. will go find some videos.

its dawning on me i need to be a bit choosier on the videos i watch. i watched one earlier about gain and offsets and even i as an almost total noob noticed wrong info (which the comments pointed out that the youtuber had corrected in the video description) but who reads comments on youtube videos?

[TiffsAndAstro]

3 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Just had a look at the camera only, and with the VAT and customs clearance shipping it’s about £225 seems a bargain, 

i got the tec cooled version filter drawer and uv/ir cut filter for £514 including shipping and customs/taxes etc on my side. im not 100% convinced yet but 12 to 15 days time we'll see

im sure its not as good as the more expensive brands - it doesn't have the 2 usb port hub built in - maybe it has that cooling fan vibration? but its a lot cheaper. its not annodised in a cool colour either

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

i got the tec cooled version filter drawer and uv/ir cut filter for £514 including shipping and customs/taxes etc on my side. im not 100% convinced yet but 12 to 15 days time we'll see

im sure its not as good as the more expensive brands - it doesn't have the 2 usb port hub built in - maybe it has that cooling fan vibration? but its a lot cheaper. its not annodised in a cool colour either

Just sent you a PM..👍🏻

[TiffsAndAstro]

14 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Just sent you a PM..👍🏻

ditto

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 hour ago, GoldTop57 said:

You might want to consider the quad band filters which seem quite popular at the moment.

ill have a look into these. at first glance they seem a little more expensive and possibly complicated. ill probably start off with a more conventional dual band and go from there.

[Elp]

2 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

If you camera is the ASI version, and others may well be the same, there will be an UV/IR cut built into the sensor cover glass, so it’s not needed….🤔

I think you'll find it's the opposite, most of the lower to mid range are AR glass only (anti reflective) so will pass IR and UV.

[Elp]

Don't bother with a LP filter, I've read so many forum posts and reviews, the general consensus if you're surrounded by LED lighting is to not use one (or use a UV/IR cut or luminence filter when doing OSC). If you have older lighting around you then they may be of benefit but note they also block some of the signal you're trying to capture.

I've had all the trio of Optolong Lpro, lenhance,.lextreme (there's a fourth now the Ultimate) and also the Idas D2 which is supposed to help with LEDs and also a CLS, generally dont bother with the LP ones. The lenhance and lextreme however are useful for emission targets and separating signal from sky, the D2 also worked surprisingly well but every star was a green tinted colour (completely cut out the reds and blues in stars), the Lpro gives a green colour cast and a CLS depending on the coating becomes blue.

[Vroobel]

25 minutes ago, Elp said:

Don't bother with a LP filter, I've read so many forum posts and reviews, the general consensus if you're surrounded by LED lighting is to not use one (or use a UV/IR cut or luminence filter when doing OSC). If you have older lighting around you then they may be of benefit but note they also block some of the signal you're trying to capture.

I've had all the trio of Optolong Lpro, lenhance,.lextreme (there's a fourth now the Ultimate) and also the Idas D2 which is supposed to help with LEDs and also a CLS, generally dont bother with the LP ones. The lenhance and lextreme however are useful for emission targets and separating signal from sky, the D2 also worked surprisingly well but every star was a green tinted colour (completely cut out the reds and blues in stars), the Lpro gives a green colour cast and a CLS depending on the coating becomes blue.

I can confirm. I bought the IDAS LPS-D2 in the beginning, but after trying to picture galaxies I gave up and bought IDAS LPS-P2. The only LED street lamp is behind my house, not affecting my pics directly. When I started working with L-eXtreme I realised that it makes greenish stars as well. There are some techniques improving the colour based on a PixelMath, but it's much better to collect 'stars' separately, like 30x30s with the LPS filter or without it at all and align them with the nebulosity master file. 

[Elp]

That's what I do, lextreme for emission target signal, then an hour or two with luminence filter for the star colour. Combine in PS after all the editing.

[TiffsAndAstro]

41 minutes ago, Elp said:

I think you'll find it's the opposite, most of the lower to mid range are AR glass only (anti reflective) so will pass IR and UV.

er how would i tell? would having the ir/uv cut glass AND a ir/uv cut filter in the filter drawer be detremental? i mean it would at least be an extra peice of glass in the way of the sensor?

lol, looking again at my order details, it possibly has a 7nm dnb filter included. 7nm isn't the narrowest, but it would be a start. ill be leaving it in the box to start with anyhow i've avoided even looking at how to process bnd osc data. 

im half expecting to find Schrodinger's cat in the box too, now.

it says it has an ar coating and an anodised (sadly only dark grey) coating for harsh environments and a lives a longer lifespan  hope that applies to me and not just the camera.

Edited June 15 by TiffsAndAstro

[TiffsAndAstro]

28 minutes ago, Elp said:

Don't bother with a LP filter, I've read so many forum posts and reviews, the general consensus if you're surrounded by LED lighting is to not use one (or use a UV/IR cut or luminence filter when doing OSC). If you have older lighting around you then they may be of benefit but note they also block some of the signal you're trying to capture.

I've had all the trio of Optolong Lpro, lenhance,.lextreme (there's a fourth now the Ultimate) and also the Idas D2 which is supposed to help with LEDs and also a CLS, generally dont bother with the LP ones. The lenhance and lextreme however are useful for emission targets and separating signal from sky, the D2 also worked surprisingly well but every star was a green tinted colour (completely cut out the reds and blues in stars), the Lpro gives a green colour cast and a CLS depending on the coating becomes blue.

yeah i think you're probably right, after looking at some videos and other stuff. besides, at the moment i really quite like broadband and LP filters seem to (have to) cut out quite a lot of that spectrum. if there is a cheap one in the package, no harm in trying it out but won't be using it right away. 

[TiffsAndAstro]

8 minutes ago, Elp said:

That's what I do, lextreme for emission target signal, then an hour or two with luminence filter for the star colour. Combine in PS after all the editing.

that might be what im aiming for, but one step at a time.

[Vroobel]

7 minutes ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

er how would i tell? would having the ir/uv cut glass AND a ir/uv cut filter in the filter drawer be detremental? i mean it would at least be an extra peice of glass in the way of the sensor?

lol, looking again at my order details, it possibly has a 7nm dnb filter included. 7nm isn't the narrowest, but it would be a start. ill be leaving it in the box to start with anyhow i've avoided even looking at how to process bnd osc data. 

im half expecting to find schroedingers cat in the box too, now.

 

 

Don't be too picky. The L-eXtreme is 7nm, my Optolong SHO are 6.5-7nm. I think most imager's uses this kind of filters.

[Elp]

If your LP is bad, but you can image some of the signal you have to image for a long time to overcome the background sky. I did M78 at F2, even with 5+ hours OSC RGB and 3 hours mono luminance I still didn't get much of the dark clouds around it. And it was fairly high up at the time (above Orion).