Help picking a scope alongside some practicality advice.

[essentialblend]

20 minutes ago, LondonNeil said:

Just playing devil's advocate, by March the days are drawing out.... by end of Feb Jupiter is gone until August...Saturn is gone in a few weeks....Saturn's rings are getting more edge on and won't be visible next year..  .

If you buy used you'll but lose loads of you sell again,  and the best way to learn is often through trying something..

I'm not helping am I?

I can always look at something and pretend it was Jupiter.

[PeterStudz]

As someone on here said - “Astronomy is a hobby that rewards patience” - and from my experience this is very true and something I often repeat to others starting out.

There’s so much more to astronomy than the gas giants and for me Jupiter and especially Saturn, are now way past their best anyway. Time to move on. And I’m looking forward to Saturns rings edge on - it’s a special event and happens roughly every 14/15 yrs I think. I’ve never seen it.

I rushed and bought something that wasn’t really suitable. Then I waited. After a couple of months I found someone who was giving away an 8” Dob for free. Sure, it needed some work, but I enjoyed that. Now I have something that’s ideal for me. If only I had some patience at the start 😀

Edited January 28 by PeterStudz

[LondonNeil]

For a bit more info , I'm a newbie so take my advice for the little is worth!

I've had a st120 for 2 weeks,  from my road in bortle 8-9 South London,  just playing on the drive while I learn my way around a little so I am contending with street lights, houses and car headlights.   I can see Saturn's rings even though its low in the sky and in the haze of Croydon.  I can see Jupiter,  its 4 Moons easily and can see bands across it.  Once I've got a little more proficient I intend to walk to the end of the street and a bit of green space away from the street lights,  bortle 7. Pretty sure it will be OK to carry the gear that far.   The st120 with a2" diagonal and a handful of decent eps fits in a 2' long stanley fatmax tool box easily, weighing about 6kg plus the box itself.  Tripod in the other hand ...a short walk should be no bother.   Getting on a bus... well its more awkward yes but break it down.   The walk to the bus stop should be fine unless it's a long way,  waiting at the stop fine,  boarding the bus awkward but only like getting on with a big suitcase when off on holiday... easier as the 20kg suitcase is far heavier.  The bus would be OK so long as its not too busy and you can get a seat.   So Imv, if you are determined then yes,  the bus is possible for occasional trips to darker skies. 

[essentialblend]

Some data for fellow math peeps, if it helps anyone else.

I calculate aperture per quid using data, then assign a worst case portability score (of 3, higher is more portable) based on the advice I got here + what I can assess. Then I normalize them, assign weights, some basic math later, we get a final score. I'm going to buy some base accessories/upgrades regardless, so I didn't want them to influence the core value proposition.

It'd be fun to hear if people agree (or disagree) with these scores (considering the weights).

Edited January 29 by essentialblend

[PhilB61]

Hi looks like you have been having fun with spreadsheets. Unfortunately it's a little more complex than that, you would have to factor in things like, ease and speed of setup, ease of use, longevity (some of the scopes are at the toy end of the scale with mainly plastic parts and others are quality items that if looked after could last a lifetime), quality of the optics, focuser etc. I think you also need to add to your list some of the smaller refractors as suggested in various posts above such as the ST80 or 100. If you didn't know a refractor doesn't have a large central obstruction like a reflector telescope so size for size has better light gathering capability. Have fun....

[essentialblend]

The only things I was comparing for was aperture per mm, and portability. Funnily enough Tiny Clang told me the same thing, and I get it, I could make this far more expressive and count in every non-trivial factor. The "ease of use / setup" effectively depends on the portability, or so I abstracted it out. All I have done on my end is self-assign one worst case portability metric, is all. No other subjective assessments.

Regarding refractors, I thought a bunch, and simply eliminated it for my first scope. These are just comparing the 100-200 'flecs I came across online. I felt my conservative portability score is at least fair. I'm not doing a quirk-per-quirk totality comparison between these products, it's just getting some more data to better make a decision as I gather the money.

I just wanted to know from those two angles, what serves well, and the ratings are almost what I intuitively imagined (i.e 100/130p being better portable and aperture per mm than a 150p), which reflects in the score, or so I thought. Here's my latest. The only easy hole in this I see is, it doesn't account for the "wow" factor of those big dobs, so regardless of how I prioritize the weights without extremes, the big ones probably get rated low.

[Gfamily]

Heres our Heritage 130 in the bag we use for taking it out. It's slightly smaller than the 150 Heritage, so is probably a bit more manageable if you don't have transport yet.

Depending on where you're observing, there may be a table or something similar to rest it on. That, a 32mm eyepiece and a 7-21mm zoom will probably scratch most astro itches to start with.

However, you might also consider a pair of binoculars, the Opticron Adventurer 10x50 T WP are very well priced, and if you have a look at the Binocularsky.com website you'll have a multitude or targets to go for. There's a monthly newsletter too that gives you binocular friendly targets for the time of year. The website is run by Steve Tonkin who writes for various astro magazines, and is also here as @BinocularSky . 

Edited January 29 by Gfamily

[essentialblend]

1 hour ago, Gfamily said:

Heres our Heritage 130 in the bag we use for taking it out. It's slightly smaller than the 150 Heritage, so is probably a bit more manageable if you don't have transport yet.

Depending on where you're observing, there may be a table or something similar to rest it on. That, a 32mm eyepiece and a 7-21mm zoom will probably scratch most astro itches to start with.

However, you might also consider a pair of binoculars, the Opticron Adventurer 10x50 T WP are very well priced, and if you have a look at the Binocularsky.com website you'll have a multitude or targets to go for. There's a monthly newsletter too that gives you binocular friendly targets for the time of year. The website is run by Steve Tonkin who writes for various astro magazines, and is also here as @BinocularSky . 

Thank you so much! 130p looks so much more manageable than I'd presumed. I'm not considering binos right now sadly. And yet to conclusively figure out the "where" and "how" of it's day to day usage sadly so I don't even know if I'll have any table (or chair hah) available.

Lots of haze unfortunately.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

The 130p is by all accounts that I've read, an excellent scope.  The focuser is very basic (just a helical model) but functional and can apparently be improved with some PTFE tape to provide a little more resistance.  There are threads on this forum about modifying them for improved performance (flocking, adding a light shield, etc.) but they are popular.

In your situation I would be seriously considering one as they are highly portable and give a decent amount of aperture for the money, with a simple mounting system.  A 5" reflector would give you plenty to look at an it's the kind of scope that many keep around even after they've upgraded.

I've found these reviews to be generally well-written and well balanced:

https://telescopicwatch.uk/sky-watcher-heritage-130p-review/

[essentialblend]

24 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

The 130p is by all accounts that I've read, an excellent scope.  The focuser is very basic (just a helical model) but functional and can apparently be improved with some PTFE tape to provide a little more resistance.  There are threads on this forum about modifying them for improved performance (flocking, adding a light shield, etc.) but they are popular.

In your situation I would be seriously considering one as they are highly portable and give a decent amount of aperture for the money, with a simple mounting system.  A 5" reflector would give you plenty to look at an it's the kind of scope that many keep around even after they've upgraded.

I've found these reviews to be generally well-written and well balanced:

https://telescopicwatch.uk/sky-watcher-heritage-130p-review/

It's even cheaper if available open box, absolute steal. Completely alleviates my tension on the spot. Just dealing with ap-fever on this one and unable to fully convince myself against the 150p because I feel I'm kind of spending a lot of money either way. I'm waiting, lets see if I stumble upon good deals.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

15 minutes ago, essentialblend said:

It's even cheaper if available open box, absolute steal. Completely alleviates my tension on the spot. Just dealing with ap-fever on this one and unable to fully convince myself against the 150p because I feel I'm kind of spending a lot of money either way. I'm waiting, lets see if I stumble upon good deals.

The main question is whether or not you're going to be able to use it.  I have a 5" SCT, a Heritage 100p (cheap impulse purchase) and a 70mm ED refractor.  Even though I have a garden and reasonable skies, I find myself using the 70mm refractor more than the others at the moment despite it having the smallest aperture because I get the most joy out of it.

Aperture is lovely to have but you'll see plenty with a 5" reflector, especially if you can take it out in a bag and find a dark sky.  There will be a club near you where you can get your hands on some bigger telescopes should you get the hankering.

Nothing against the 150p, it is another excellent telescope and just a scaled-up 130p but I would think about it carefully and weigh up the portability as the primary concern.  The telescope you can use more is probably the right one to have - especially if you're starting out.

EDIT: I've just had a quick look for you and the 130p is 6Kg in total and the 150p is 7.5Kg.  Neither are exactly 'heavyweight' but may make a difference if you're taking it on a bus.  I think the physical size is the bigger concern.

Edited January 29 by GrumpiusMaximus

[PhilB61]

Might be worth taking a look at it this website, it's aimed at beginners looking to buy there first telescope

https://supercooper.jimdofree.com/choosing-telescopes-complete-essentials/

[PhilB61]

Similar to Grumpiusmaximus I currently have a 127mm Mak, 80ED triplet and 72ED. Which have I used most in the last few months? none of those, it's been my 60mm spotting scope with zoom eyepiece, because it always available on the photo tripod and I can pick it up in one hand and be in the back garden in 30 seconds. Great for when the weather has been so poor and your trying to dodge rain and clouds

[essentialblend]

20 minutes ago, PhilB61 said:

Similar to Grumpiusmaximus I currently have a 127mm Mak, 80ED triplet and 72ED. Which have I used most in the last few months? none of those, it's been my 60mm spotting scope with zoom eyepiece, because it always available on the photo tripod and I can pick it up in one hand and be in the back garden in 30 seconds. Great for when the weather has been so poor and your trying to dodge rain and clouds

If I was in a position where I knew I could simply upgrade later at will on command, I'd be much much more comfortable with the beginner 60-70mm frac. 

I just don't want to get something and then feel any aperture regret, although I saw a bunch of representation images and have some faint idea of what to expect. Even with this 150p + stuff, I'm running close to 400 quid. 350 if I remove the barlow. Too much if it doesn't get used and is making me consider an open box 130.

Edited January 29 by essentialblend

[essentialblend]

52 minutes ago, PhilB61 said:

Might be worth taking a look at it this website, it's aimed at beginners looking to buy there first telescope

https://supercooper.jimdofree.com/choosing-telescopes-complete-essentials/

This article is gold! Thanks for sharing. Still going through it.