AZ-EQ5 Mount USB Port - What does it do?

[PeterC65]

I've had a Sky-Watcher AZ-EQ5 mount for a couple of months now. I mostly operate it in AZ mode, sometimes controlled by the hand controller, sometimes by a laptop. When I control it with the laptop I connect the hand controller to the laptop via USB and use ASCOM. That works reliably, but there is another USB port on the mount head.

Has anyone used this port, and if so, what does it do?

The manual says "The USB port connects to an internal USB-to-Serial device (Baud rate 115200bps). It can be used to control the mount directly from a host PC. It is also used to update the firmware of the motor controller."

When I try to use it with the SynScan App it will not connect.

 

[StevieDvd]

Not used on that specific mount but have used the USB port on other Skywatcher mounts.  Yes, they are a built in replacement for the handset and allow usage as per the manual you have quoted.

The usual suspect is the driver for the chipset used by Skywatcher missing from your PC. It's likely a Prolific one, whereas the USB serial lead connecting via the handset is FTDI.

Plug a USB printer type cable into the mount and PC then switch on and see what appears in the devices manager and if a com port number is allocated. Or if the device is unassigned and needs the driver to be installed. The Skywatcher page for your mount should tell you which driver is needed.

 

[ONIKKINEN]

The driver from the Skywatcher drivers page was not the correct one for my AZ-EQ6 and i had to do some digging to find the up to date one from the prolific site itself.

So you might also need to investigate a bit to find the right one in case you tried the Skywatcher driver and had no luck.

[malc-c]

It allows the mount to be connected to a computer and controlled via software.  It is basically in inbuilt EQDIR cable and uses a prolific 2302 chipset.  Connection via usb has been well documented on the forum

[PeterC65]

I have the Prolific driver installed, the one from the Sky-Watcher website. This driver is used to connect to the USB port on the hand controller and with that it works fine.

@ONIKKINEN, have you used the driver from the Prolific website successfully with the hand controller too? It seems unlikely that different drivers would be needed for the mount and for the hand controller. Have you used the mount USB port with the SynScan app? This should only need the Prolific driver and no ASCOM.

@StevieDvd, @malc-c, the issue for me is that the USB port on the mount is not working when I try using it with the exact same setup that does work with the USB port on the hand controller. As usual, there is no proper documentation for any of this. FLO says the mount USB port is only usable in EQ mode, but the mount head doesn't know whether its in EQ or AZ mode so that doesn't make any sense, and others seem to have used the mount USB port when in AZ mode.

 

Edited January 2 by PeterC65

[ONIKKINEN]

1 hour ago, PeterC65 said:

@ONIKKINEN, have you used the driver from the Prolific website successfully with the hand controller too? It seems unlikely that different drivers would be needed for the mount and for the hand controller. Have you used the mount USB port with the SynScan app? This should only need the Prolific driver and no ASCOM.

This was early 2022, and have since put all USB troubles behind me and moved back to an EQMOD cable so im afraid i dont remember all the specifics.

I do remember that once i got it working it could work from both USB plugs, and i was specifically interested in the hand controller route of running the mount so almost entirely went with that. I did download the Synscan ap but only ever really used the mount with NINA using the Skywatcher driver - which i dont think is the same as the ASCOM one. The chipset driver was the missing link and once sorted i could see the COM port in device manager and so any application could communicate with it.

[PeterC65]

1 hour ago, ONIKKINEN said:

This was early 2022, and have since put all USB troubles behind me and moved back to an EQMOD cable so im afraid i dont remember all the specifics.

I do remember that once i got it working it could work from both USB plugs, and i was specifically interested in the hand controller route of running the mount so almost entirely went with that. I did download the Synscan ap but only ever really used the mount with NINA using the Skywatcher driver - which i dont think is the same as the ASCOM one. The chipset driver was the missing link and once sorted i could see the COM port in device manager and so any application could communicate with it.

I've checked the websites and the Sky-Watcher site has a 2018 Prolific driver which is the one I have, whereas the one on the Prolific website is dated 2022. I might try updating it.

Do you happen to remember if the mount USB port worked with the hand controller also plugged in? I have been wondering whether it needs to be disconnected.

You said that you now use an EQMOD cable without any problems. Are you using this with the mount in AZ mode? Are you using it with the EQMOD software or with other software?

 

[ONIKKINEN]

1 hour ago, PeterC65 said:

I've checked the websites and the Sky-Watcher site has a 2018 Prolific driver which is the one I have, whereas the one on the Prolific website is dated 2022. I might try updating it.

Do you happen to remember if the mount USB port worked with the hand controller also plugged in? I have been wondering whether it needs to be disconnected.

You said that you now use an EQMOD cable without any problems. Are you using this with the mount in AZ mode? Are you using it with the EQMOD software or with other software?

 

With the USB plugged to the mount the hand controller was not communicating with the PC, or it might have not worked at all. Cant really remember, but the way i wanted to use the setup was for both my mini-PC and the handcontroller to be aware of where the mount was pointing, and so that both could issue commands and the other would know what is happening. USB plug to the hand controller was the way to go for that to work and that way i could issue a go-to from either NINA or the handset, and both would know where the scope is pointing.

Never tried PC control in AZ mode, only ever used mine in AZ mode manually with the handset and even then only a couple of times.

Edited January 2 by ONIKKINEN

[malc-c]

14 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I have the Prolific driver installed, the one from the Sky-Watcher website. This driver is used to connect to the USB port on the hand controller and with that it works fine.

@StevieDvd, @malc-c, the issue for me is that the USB port on the mount is not working when I try using it with the exact same setup that does work with the USB port on the hand controller. As usual, there is no proper documentation for any of this. FLO says the mount USB port is only usable in EQ mode, but the mount head doesn't know whether its in EQ or AZ mode so that doesn't make any sense, and others seem to have used the mount USB port when in AZ mode.

 

Assuming you have the correct prolific driver installed and there is no fault with the cable the reason will be because the usb connection doesn't use the same settings as the usb port on the handset.  The handset connection typically requires the bits per second rate set to 9600.  The usb port on the mount runs at 115200 bits per second, so you will need to go into the properties of the port via device manager (assuming you are running windows) as change the rate.

I've not used a combined AZ-EQ mount, but the operation is different as EQ mode will only drive the RA axis when tracking an object.  My assumption is that the mode might be set in the handset, in which case the suggestion of the USB connection only being suitable for EQ mode may well be correct as control software such as EQMOD will be assuming the mount is an EQ mount and thus will not be able to goto any target if the mount is left in AZ configuration. 

[StevieDvd]

I would not expect to have both the mount usb and handset connected and have them both working seamlessly together. Just one or the other is probably best practise. 

The handset and the Synscan app will have an option to set whether the mount is being used in EQ or AZ mode 

The drivers are obtainable from https://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProduct.aspx?p_id=225&pcid=41 by checking the version f the chip - there is a program in that page you can download to check yours. Hopefully a later driver will support both your eqmod cable chip and the one in the mount.

Prolific chips tend to change the com port numbers rather than re-using the same one previously assigned to that serial cable. So are you trying all this with the correct com port for the cable being used?  You need to have a different baud rate and make sure the com port in ascom is correct for the serial connection being used, they are not always the same.

 

 

[PeterC65]

I've installed the latest Prolific driver (4.0.8) from the Prolific website.

For good measure, I've also updated the hand controller firmware to 4.39.21.

When I plug the USB cable in to the hand controller and check Device Manager it shows that COM3 is active and I have set this to 9600 baud.

When I plug the USB cable in to the mount head and check Device Manager is shows that COM4 is active and I have set this to 115200 baud.

So I think I have working USB communications via both USB ports, both set to their correct baud rates.

Via the hand controller USB port I can reliably communicate with the mount via ASCOM with the hand controller in standby. I can also communicate with the mount using the SynScan app with the hand controller in PC Direct mode, PROVIDED that I first connect to it via ASCOM, then disconnect. Try explaining that!

Via the mount USB port I cannot connect with the mount via either ASCOM or with the SynScan app, even though Device Manager says the USB connection is just fine.

As I type, I'm also testing the SynScan app - ASCOM - SharpCap & Stellarium setup and that seems to be stable with the SynScan app in emulation mode. On the rare occasions when I've managed to get the SynScan app to connect to the mount, this combination falls over after a while.

Any ideas?

 

[malc-c]

Remove the power form the mount and then remove the handset form the equation  Plug in the USB cable to the mount and PC.  Power up the mount and boot the PC.  Check Device Manager to confirm the COM port still remains at 115200 baud.

When you say "Ascom" are you referring to EQMOD or GSS?  -   If you don't have these installed then download and install EQMOD.  Once installed open up the TOOLBOX application (from the start menu > all programms > EQMOD > EQASCOM ).  In the window that opens up, under the central set up section click on the Driver Setup.  A new window will appear.  Left hand middle section EQMOD Port Details.  Within that section you can select the port and speed.  Select COM4 and set it to 115200 and click OK.  The window will close, leaving the toolbox window open.  Under the setup section, make sure eqmod.exe is selected, and then click ASCOM connect  button.  This should open EQMOD, connect to the mount and show it as parked.    This confirms that the PC has connection with the mount. You can then unpark the mount, set the slew rate to 4 (dropdown between the RA and DEC sliders, and the clicking on the NSEW buttons should move the mount.  Finally click on the ASCOM disconnect button and then close the Toolbox application.  

Now EQMOD can only be used when the mount is set in an EQ configuration.  But we are only using it here to rule out both the hardware and / or the driver as being the cause of the issue.  If you can connect to the mount without EQMOD constantly cycling with a time out error, then that means the hardware and drivers are fine and working correctly, and the issue is with the Synscan software

I'm not familiar with this, other then messing about with a wi-fi dongle I fixed the other week and confirming the phone could connect to the dongle and the android app was happy to communicate with a mount.  I've not heard of anyone trying to connect an app on the phone to a mount that is connected via USB to a PC.  Both the PC and the phone would need to be on the same network, and some form of application running on the PC to relay commands between the mount and phone.

 

[PeterC65]

12 hours ago, malc-c said:

Remove the power form the mount and then remove the handset form the equation  Plug in the USB cable to the mount and PC.  Power up the mount and boot the PC.  Check Device Manager to confirm the COM port still remains at 115200 baud.

Yes that's what I've been doing. Device Manager shows COM3 appearing and disappearing as I make and break the USB connection, and the baud rate is set to 115200.

12 hours ago, malc-c said:

When you say "Ascom" are you referring to EQMOD or GSS?

I mean the ASCOM Platform and Drivers. I have two drivers installed, one called SkyWatcher Telescope and the other called SynScan App Driver, both downloaded from the Sky-Watcher website. The first is meant to control the mount via the hand controller, the second via the SynScan app.

When I say the SynScan app, what I mean is the SynScan Pro Windows applications software. This is a Windows version of the tablet app that many people use. So I'm running all of the software on the same laptop.

12 hours ago, malc-c said:

If you don't have these installed then download and install EQMOD.  Once installed open up the TOOLBOX application (from the start menu > all programms > EQMOD > EQASCOM ).  In the window that opens up, under the central set up section click on the Driver Setup.  A new window will appear.  Left hand middle section EQMOD Port Details.  Within that section you can select the port and speed.  Select COM4 and set it to 115200 and click OK.  The window will close, leaving the toolbox window open.  Under the setup section, make sure eqmod.exe is selected, and then click ASCOM connect  button.  This should open EQMOD, connect to the mount and show it as parked.    This confirms that the PC has connection with the mount. You can then unpark the mount, set the slew rate to 4 (dropdown between the RA and DEC sliders, and the clicking on the NSEW buttons should move the mount.  Finally click on the ASCOM disconnect button and then close the Toolbox application.  

Now EQMOD can only be used when the mount is set in an EQ configuration.  But we are only using it here to rule out both the hardware and / or the driver as being the cause of the issue.  If you can connect to the mount without EQMOD constantly cycling with a time out error, then that means the hardware and drivers are fine and working correctly, and the issue is with the Synscan software.

The ASCOM Platform has a simple client called the ASCOM Device Hub which does what I think you are suggesting I do with the EQMOD software (another ASCOM client). In the ASCOM Device Hub I cannot see the COM3 port, or indeed any COM port, and I expect it would be the same with EQMOD (or with GSS).

I have discovered this morning that when I use the mount head USB port, from reboot I cannot connect via the SynScan Pro app, but if I first try to connet via the ASCOM Device Hub (and fail to do so because it cannot see the COM port), then afterwards the SynScan Pro app WILL connect as it should. I've tried this a few times and it is repeatable.

It feels like trying to connect via ASCOM somehow pipe cleans the communications pathway so that SynScan Pro then works.

This does give me a way to do what I need, but with what should be the unnecessary rigmarole of first having to try and fail to connect via ASCOM.

 

[bosun21]

What about a virtual port splitter for COM3?

[PeterC65]

I'm almost there now I think. It's just that I need to do this pipe cleaning step which should be unneccessary.

 

[bosun21]

Wouldn’t the addition of the virtual port splitter software render this step unnecessary? It splits COM3 into two virtual ports. One for the app and one for the mount.

[PeterC65]

28 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Wouldn’t the addition of the virtual port splitter software render this step unnecessary? It splits COM3 into two virtual ports. One for the app and one for the mount.

I'm not sure. I've never used one. I think the one remaining problem is this need to pipe clean which just shouldn't be the case. Hopefully OVL will get back to me with a solution.

 

[malc-c]

Thank you for a very detailed explanation.  It's clear that the issue is software related and not a physical hardware related problem.  I've not used the applications you mentioned, as for my set up EQMOD and then CDC for target selection.  

The fact that one application is not seeing any com ports is concerning.  Irrespective if they are real or virtual com ports.  You could try flushing the cache of stored (hidden) comports to see if that helps, or uninstall and re-install the applications testing functionality after each one to see which one is not releasing the port.

Other than that I'm out of suggestions.  

[PeterC65]

I now have a workable setup, although I do have to pipe clean the communications using the ASCOM Device Hub before I can get SynScan Pro to work.

As things stand ...

• I'm able to connect to the mount using the USB port on the mount head.
• I'm able to connect to and control the mount (in AZ mode) over USB from the SynScan Pro Windows software.
• I can leave the hand controller plugged in to the mount and control it with it at the same time. I think the hand controller may have a different pointing model from SynScan Pro, so I'm just using it for manual slewing.
• Through SynScan Pro, I'm able to connect to and control the mount from SharpCap by using the ASCOM Platform and the SynScan App Driver.
• Through SynScan Pro, I'm able to connect to and control the mount from Stellarium by using the TCP port that is provided by SynScan Pro. The alternative connection method via the ASCOM Platform and the SynScan App Driver was unstable when connected to both SharpCap and Stellarium.

I'm hoping that OVL will get back to me about the need for pipe cleaning before SynScan Pro will work.

 

[bosun21]

Great that you now have a functioning system now Peter. Hopefully you will come across a solution to your last small  hurdle.

[StevieDvd]

Reading your explanation of the pipe cleaning I think your conclusion that it is resetting (cleaning) is possibly wrong.  In software terms it's more likely that ASCOM starts or loads a process when it searches for a com port and then SynScan app works as that process is already running. If you start SynScan first then it does not see the process or start it itself.

This could be due to the way you start or installed software, such as one has admin rights and the other does not.

Or after a quick google for your issue I found this old thread on SGL which may be worth a look.  It appeared that the driver linked to the serial port was using a previous installed version. When fixed SynScan did open the port on start up.

 

 

[PeterC65]

5 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

Or after a quick google for your issue I found this old thread on SGL which may be worth a look.  It appeared that the driver linked to the serial port was using a previous installed version. When fixed SynScan did open the port on start up.

Thanks for pointing out this other thread. The issue with administrator privileges is something I've seen. It can be overcome by running SynScan Pro from a directory for which it has access. I think it is the Prolific driver that is causing my problem as the thread also mentions. I've tried removing it completely from the laptop and letting Windows find and install it again when I plug in the mount (this was suggested by OVL) but it just installs the same, most recent, version that I've been using all along, and there seems to be no way to select a different version.

5 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

Reading your explanation of the pipe cleaning I think your conclusion that it is resetting (cleaning) is possibly wrong.  In software terms it's more likely that ASCOM starts or loads a process when it searches for a com port and then SynScan app works as that process is already running. If you start SynScan first then it does not see the process or start it itself.

When I say "pipe cleaning" what I mean is that starting the ASCOM software is doing something that is needed to make the communications pathway work, something that SynScan Pro is not doing. I think we are both saying the same thing. I have some mount test software from a guy in Australia and that also does the required "pipe cleaning", whatever it is. He says that his software just polls the COM ports and maybe that is enough to wake them up.

 

[malc-c]

This may or may not resolve the issue with the Prolific driver.  I've attached an older driver that worked with a USB to Serial chipset under XP/ Win7 and win10 

PL2303_64bit_Installer.zip

[PeterC65]

40 minutes ago, malc-c said:

This may or may not resolve the issue with the Prolific driver.  I've attached an older driver that worked with a USB to Serial chipset under XP/ Win7 and win10 

PL2303_64bit_Installer.zip 431.24 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks. I'm currently looking at using a different, possibly older, version of this driver. I'm struggling with selecting a particular version in Device Manager though. I can get as far as "Let me pick from a list of available drivers on my computer" but getting the driver on that list seems to need a CAB file.

 

[PeterC65]

Well ...

After uninstalling and re-installing various Prolific drivers, I'm now back on v5.2.6.0, which is the latest version and the one I've been using all along, and SynScan Pro is connecting successfully to the mount. I have no idea what I've done to make this work!