Training resources for cloudy nights

[SwiMatt]

Because the weather is so horrible all the time, I want to start training some sketching techniques for DSOs - notably I want to start learning and experimenting with the Mellish technique (for pastels on black paper). But here's the catch: most images of DSOs that can be found online are extremely far from the reality of visual astronomy - and are not ideal for training for the field.

Do you know of any sources of images that bear some resemblance with what one might see in the eyepiece? One thing I am doing is to scour the astrophotography DSO forum of SGL, but it's a lot of variety and it takes a lot of time to find images that are interesting for this purpose. I also tried using Stellarium, but it's not particularly satisfactory for this.

[mikeDnight]

You could look at sketches made by other observers such as John Mallas, Walter Scott Houston, and Stephen James Omeara, all of whom used 4" refractors. So you can get a good idea what's possible with modest apertures.

[Nik271]

When I want to get an idea what an object looks visually in near ideal conditions I check this site:

 

https://www.deepskywatch.com/astronomy-sketches.html

 

The guy made the sketches from the Negev desert with a 8 inch Newt so normally I expect to see only a half of it in my backwyard, but it's helpful. 

[John]

22 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

When I want to get an idea what an object looks visually in near ideal conditions I check this site:

 

https://www.deepskywatch.com/astronomy-sketches.html

 

The guy made the sketches from the Negev desert with a 8 inch Newt so normally I expect to see only a half of it in my backwyard, but it's helpful. 

That is a good resource.

I have tried reducing the contrast of the sketch of M 33 from that resource to try and reproduce what I could see of it last night with my 100mm scope and I found that I had to reduce the contrast and brightness by 80% to get anything like the subtlety of the visual image that I saw. And that was still probably more contrasty than the actual eyepiece view !

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by John

[SwiMatt]

10 hours ago, Nik271 said:

When I want to get an idea what an object looks visually in near ideal conditions I check this site:

 

https://www.deepskywatch.com/astronomy-sketches.html

 

The guy made the sketches from the Negev desert with a 8 inch Newt so normally I expect to see only a half of it in my backwyard, but it's helpful. 

Somehow my brain rejected the idea of sketching other sketches 😂 but indeed this might be the best way forward. Thank you for the resource @Nik271! I had seen that website some time ago when I was looking for sketches of the Messier objects - it's a wonderful source of inspiration.

[mikeDnight]

On 21/11/2023 at 08:06, SwiMatt said:

Somehow my brain rejected the idea of sketching other sketches 😂 but indeed this might be the best way forward. Thank you for the resource @Nik271! I had seen that website some time ago when I was looking for sketches of the Messier objects - it's a wonderful source of inspiration.

There are also some excellent sketches here on SGL as well as on Cloudy Nights that can give a real indication of how DSO's may appear through various telescopes, and under various conditions. 

[SwiMatt]

Thank you @mikeDnight! I will try to make up a collection of sketches I want to replicate

[Nicola Fletcher]

On 20/11/2023 at 13:46, SwiMatt said:

Because the weather is so horrible all the time, I want to start training some sketching techniques for DSOs - notably I want to start learning and experimenting with the Mellish technique (for pastels on black paper). But here's the catch: most images of DSOs that can be found online are extremely far from the reality of visual astronomy - and are not ideal for training for the field.

Do you know of any sources of images that bear some resemblance with what one might see in the eyepiece? One thing I am doing is to scour the astrophotography DSO forum of SGL, but it's a lot of variety and it takes a lot of time to find images that are interesting for this purpose. I also tried using Stellarium, but it's not particularly satisfactory for this.

When I first tried the Mellish technique, I practiced drawing the moon from photographs. I found that it was a really good way of getting used to using pastels and working on black paper. I then tried some DSOs just by pausing the Mellish video and copying the DSO sketches (I used the one by Alexander Massey on YouTube. I then found it much easier to use the technique when I actually started sketching at the telescope. 

I think it’s a lovely way of sketching; I hope you enjoy it!

[Franklin]

On 20/11/2023 at 21:27, mikeDnight said:

You could look at sketches made by other observers such as John Mallas, Walter Scott Houston, and Stephen James Omeara, all of whom used 4" refractors. So you can get a good idea what's possible with modest apertures.

Yeah, get the Messier Album and try to copy the sketches by John Mallas.

[SwiMatt]

2 hours ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

When I first tried the Mellish technique, I practiced drawing the moon from photographs. I found that it was a really good way of getting used to using pastels and working on black paper. I then tried some DSOs just by pausing the Mellish video and copying the DSO sketches (I used the one by Alexander Massey on YouTube. I then found it much easier to use the technique when I actually started sketching at the telescope. 

I think it’s a lovely way of sketching; I hope you enjoy it!

I have to admit I'm still a bit intimidated by the Moon... What pastels did you use, just white on black? I never ever used soft pastels in my life, my drawing is so far limited to pen and ink or pencils! It's gonna be fun to experiment. I will definitely start from the Massey video, step after step, to get used to the whole process and medium...

 Either way, I'm just back from my favorite art store and I picked up some black paper, white pastel and a couple of charcoal pencil (white and black) to play with! 😍

[Nicola Fletcher]

2 hours ago, SwiMatt said:

What pastels did you use, just white on black?

I use white, yellow and orange pastel pencils (for coloured stars). I then use soft pastel sticks which I make a powder from on sandpaper and then apply with a paintbrush. Lastly, I use a white gelly roll pen to draw very bright stars. Sharpen the pastel pencils with a blade - they just break if you try to use a pencil sharpener! 
I was intimidated by the moon but it wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be. It’s definitely good practice too!

[SwiMatt]

10 hours ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I use white, yellow and orange pastel pencils (for coloured stars). I then use soft pastel sticks which I make a powder from on sandpaper and then apply with a paintbrush. Lastly, I use a white gelly roll pen to draw very bright stars. Sharpen the pastel pencils with a blade - they just break if you try to use a pencil sharpener! 
I was intimidated by the moon but it wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be. It’s definitely good practice too!

Thank you @Nicola Fletcher! Sounds like I need another run to the art store... I'll let the others use their money on astronomy gear

[Nicola Fletcher]

16 hours ago, SwiMatt said:

Thank you @Nicola Fletcher! Sounds like I need another run to the art store... I'll let the others use their money on astronomy gear

Definitely- the art shop will hurt your wallet a lot less than Astro gear. Sketching is such a great way to really see the detail in objects.

[SwiMatt]

As a first test with pastels, I reproduced one of my earlier sketches of M71 (see linked thread). Not bad, although probably a bit more visible than I remember... 

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/415928-noob-dsos/