Advise please

[squipper]

Hi  first Thank very kindly for the add,  as i have been retired a few years  i would now like to do astro imaging . I have an old tasgo galaxsee 114/5000 scope  but now while finances allow me to buy just one scope to outlast me  what would you kind people advise. I am looking at 3 scopes that i can just budget for   a  sky watcher 200 /250 or a 300 newt that all are supplied with a tracking mount. which would  do for dso imaging , I live in a bortle 7 area  but it seems dark in our back garden where i will be using it, do have a wooden wheeled platform to push it in and out of the garage as i no have a car  and have stopped driving.

 thanking you all for you help

[Elp]

What sort of mount are they (model)? A Newtonian, especially a sizeable one needs a very sturdy mount and a sturdy tripod because of their volume, they act like wind sails and any vibration be it physical or a breeze will be detrimental to any imaging (even visual).

You can capture a lot with a camera from bortle 7 as I do, it helps if the glare from any surrounding light is minimal or in a different direction to the one you're imaging.

DSO imaging also benefits from autoguiding your setup (with another camera and guidescope) and a form of computer control, though it's not absolutely necessary. You just need to temper your expectations to what equipment you have at hand.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Elp

[Carbon Brush]

Hello and welcome to SGL.

Astrophotography can be a simple as a camera pointed to the sky. But it can easily become a money pit.
Think £1K+ each for scope, camera, mount, set of filters.......
Yes you can get carried away.

The first thing in astrophotography is a good rock solid mount. Without this you don't get anywhere.
Think BIG mount and small scope for keeping things rigid.

The scope & mount packages sold are generally not good enough for serious imaging.
The manufacturer puts the biggest scope he can on the smallest mount.
OK for visual but not photography - you can deal with the flex and wobble.
You need to buy scope and mount separately, going a size up on the mount when compared to the package.

I think if you take a look around the forum and read what others are up to, it will help.

Also, I think your scope 114/5000 maybe a typo for 114/500, in which case it is not suitable.

Keep asking the questions,

David.

[squipper]

They are on a NEQ6 mount

[squipper]

At FLO they have a 200pds on a HEQ5 PRO

 

[Elp]

I think both mounts will be okay, a 300mm Newtonian is a bit of a beast however. Also the longer the focal length the better your tracking and stability need to be. 

Are you looking to start with EAA type imaging or going for the full on DSO experience? The former is a lot more forgiving with regard to setup.

[squipper]

would like to try with eea if that is the easier option 

[Elp]

Certainly much easier.

As for scope the Skywatcher PDSs come highly recommended, but if I were starting out imaging I'd aim for a refractor within the 60-80mm aperture range, far easier to get going, less stress on the mount, lighter, wider field of view, polar alignment and tracking is more forgiving.

Even a DSLR/mirrorless and lens combo works well as long as you're not aiming for planets or small targets.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Elp

[squipper]

SWMBO stated that i can have 1 telescope only not half a dozen that's i want 1 that will last instead of swapping and changing them, got to keep the boss happy 

[M40]

Hello squipper and welcome to the site.

First off, management must be kept happy so make sure you know what you want to see, the telescope thats good for eea or dso astrophotography will not be so good on solar system stuff and vice versa. 

As someone that tries on eea, I use an heq5, 85mm refractor, zwo asi290 and an asiair and I know I will not run out of targets with that setup. I use a few other bits and bobs like a fixed power supply, flip mirror and red dot finder but thats more or less it. I  started with a 200P on a dob mount, realised I wanted a tracking mount, then moved on the 200P for the refractor, as I  knew sooner or later I would drop the 200P. Not a massive difference in the weight but the refractor is far easier to manhandle. 

Have a look through the eeva discussion and reports sections on the site to see what people are achieving and what they use.

All the best.

[squipper]

I would like to see the heart nebula,horses head and the like  would the 114 scope do for the planets 

 

[M40]

1 hour ago, squipper said:

I would like to see the heart nebula,horses head and the like  would the 114 scope do for the planets 

The heart and horses head are very much targets that astrophotographers love, as to tease out the definition and colours is a skill that's beyond me. The horsehead nebula however, is within the orion constellation and is one of the easier targets so well worth a go. Life, particularly in the astronomers world is all about managing expectations, your galaxsee 114 x 500 telescope is very much a starter telescope which will be limited by your mount, stick that on a good mount and it might make all the difference. Below is a screen shot using your galaxsee with a 10mm eyepiece and the supplied barlow just give you an idea......

I would also point you to a very good post thats a few years old now but still very relevant ...

All the best

[WolfieGlos]

5 hours ago, squipper said:

At FLO they have a 200pds on a HEQ5 PRO

 

Hi and welcome to SGL 🙂

Like @Carbon Brush said, astrophotography can get expensive, and so spreading it out over time is the best way.

I've been at it for 2 years now, starting with a Star Adventurer mount (not the most suitable for DSO imaging) and I purchased a second hand HEQ5 (by itself) at the start of this year, and I ran my Evostar 72ED refractor on it with no issues. This will allow a widefield view/image of the Horsehead and Flame Nebulae, and a bit more of the region. When I wanted more reach after a few months for galaxy season, I did look at the 200P-DS until I came across the 4th review on FLO which states the following:

Quote

Great combination but it's worth noting that if you use the 200 OTA with the HEQ5, the counterweights are only just enough for the 200 and the included eyepiece.
If you want to put some heavier lenses or a camera onto the telescope, the standard counterweights are not quite enough for good Right Ascension balance. You need either extra weights or a weights extension bar to make sure that the scope balances. There are discussions around moments and vibrations for extra weights vs. extension bars, so look those arguments up if you're having to make a choice.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-ds-ota.html

This review is on the scope page, not the scope+mount page. Now I'm no expert on this, and I take that at face value and that set alarm bells ringing for me. I then considered a range of scopes, but settled on a Starfield 102 refractor. With a reducer, DSLR, guider, red-dot sight and now an EAF, it uses 1 counterweight right at the bottom of the extension bar. By comparison, the 72ED used 1 counterweight about half-way up.

Do you already have a camera? This should really be matched to the scope for correct sampling. If not, then the choice of scope will help decide the camera too. I still don't fully understand this, but others can get technical and assist on this if needed 🙂

My 72ED is 420 focal length, the SF102 is 712 (without reducers, which you will need to image with to get a flat field). First I would consider what targets you want to image and that should decide your scope. Generally galaxies will need longer focal lengths than nebulae.

As an example, below is a link to AstronomyTools, which allows you to choose your equipment and see how a target will look on their website. I've linked a comparison using my DSLR with my 72ED and the SF102...with their reducers so effectively 360 and 570 focal lengths on M31 The Andromeda Galaxy. I also added the 200PDS to give a comparison.  If you want to view the Horsehead, simply use the Search box and type in IC 434, or IC 1805 for the Heart Nebula.

http://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/?fov[]=41||1090||1|1|0&fov[]=9551||1090||0.8|1|0&fov[]=2654||1090||0.85|1|0&messier=31

Just remember that you can always create mosaic images if you have too much focal length on a particular target, they will just take longer to create and collect the data. For instance, from the above link to AT, the 200PDS would need to create a 2x2 mosaic image to match the field of view of the SF102. So in theory, assuming all is equal in terms of aperture, etc, it would take 4x as long to create a full image of the galaxy.

You will find the non-messier catalogues a bit limited with their images on AT so if you can, I would recommend downloading Stellarium to your computer (free download) since you can put in any scope/camera combination and use it to freely move around a virtual nightsky on your screen to see how different targets frame up, such as the below. Hope this helps.

[Cosmic Geoff]

12 hours ago, M40 said:

would the 114 scope do for the planets

Only if your expectations are low.

  A good scope for planetary viewing (or imaging) bears little resemblance to a good scope for beginner DSO imaging.

You could try DSO imaging with the 114/500 if you put it on a serious mount.

If you are limiting yourself to one scope, then you should decide what sort of thing you want to image (ultrawide, e.g. the Orion ring), wide field (M31 and companions), narrowfield (small distant galaxies or planetary nebulae), or planetary, and buy accordingly.  Trying to make one scope or camera do everything is unlikely to end well.  There are tools that can show you what field you get with a particular scope and camera.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Cosmic Geoff

[Mr Spock]

16 hours ago, squipper said:

SWMBO stated that i can have 1 telescope only not half a dozen that's i want 1 that will last instead of swapping and changing them, got to keep the boss happy 

Mine said the same. I wonder where she is now... 

[squipper]

Sorry for the delay  in replying just got back from  a long extended weekend  from the Blackpool Airshow.

Where was I   yes if I want to do eaa  what hardware would i need i do have a windows 10 & windows 11 laptop to use. Also what are the cost and would you advice new or pre owned on everything eaa and telescope , too get more for my money

Edited August 15, 2023 by squipper

[M40]

For eea you can start with three things and add as time goes by, to start you need a goto/tracking mount, a telescope and a camera. I've listed my stuff earlier in the topic to give you an idea.

The most important choice is the mount as this will determine the weight of the stuff you put on it. I use an 85mm refractor whereas others use large reflectors. The large reflectors are light buckets and will capture small galaxies that will be beyond my telescope, but think about weight on the mount, storage and physically moving them. The larger the telescope, the mount goes up in both weight and cost.

Have you found the field of view calculator within resources, astronomy tools at the top of the page? When I first started with eea, I judged the field of view that I wanted on M51 and M101. Select imaging, a camera, a target and a telescope, add it to the view to see what the result could look like, please treat it as a guide only.

On the camera side of things, I know a zwo camera will quite happily link to a windows laptop and zwo provide free reasonably user friendly software for eea that I used before I upgraded. I can’t comment on the other types of astro camera as I havent used any.

I think you would be quite safe buying used from a dedicated site like this. Not sure what the requirements are but I think you have to have 25? posts to gain access to the for sale area on here.

All the best.

[squipper]

Thank you for your reply.  being abit  slow in understanding  could you tell me in very simple terms  no maths,or techy terms .As it is going to be my 1 and only scope i will be buying  due to finances  what would be my best option   one group says large aperture while some say small and this is where iI get lost and confused  ( an old age thing ) as to what to buy  if i buy one type i cannot swap / buy  it for the other i will be stuck with it.   As i said in my first post  i don't drive so it will used in my back garden .  thanking you all for yor kind help and patience with me .

[Elp]

You can always sell any equipment you no longer use.

In your case, the best thing you can do is join a nearby astro society or attend a star party and see what others are using, then decide for yourself.

Many of us end up with more than one scope at some point so it's difficult to recommend just one.

[squipper]

Don't think there is any thing like that near me plus there is the transport problem  do not drive and reliant on public transport to get any where  

[Elp]

An alternative is an astronomy show where many retailers are on show with various equipment, you can also meet fellow people there. Not sure when the next one is as many were earlier in the year.

If you look on the astrobuysell UK website there's a brief list of astro societies listed on the LHS, do a search in Google or equivalent to see if theres one local to you.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Elp

[squipper]

Just been checking there is nothing like an  astronomy show  near me all seem to be far away for me to get to them  and thank you for that info 

[bosun21]

If i was you I'd buy a 8" dobsonian. It will keep you busy for a lifetime of visual observing and if further down the road you want to do a bit of EAA then all you need to do is buy an EQ platform and a camera. 

[squipper]

Yes was told to get a large dob as i have a wheeled platfom to put it on to push it out of my empty garage  but after seeing some of the wonderful images  what  i have seen on this site. that  has got me wanting to do  imaging

to say that i have done that image  

[bosun21]

7 minutes ago, squipper said:

Yes was told to get a large dob as i have a wheeled platfom to put it on to push it out of my empty garage  but after seeing some of the wonderful images  what  i have seen on this site. that  has got me wanting to do  imaging

to say that i have done that image  

Well that changes things. A small refractor on a tracking EQ mount should be your target in that case.