First Outing to the Downs with Tak FC100DC - A Moonless Galaxy Hunt

[SuburbanMak]

A little late in writing up Friday's session on the South Downs above Winchester but wanted to record it here as it was good night! 

Although Clear Outside was showing less than promising local conditions, a look at the Met Office Cloud Cover and Jetstream forecasts on Friday afternoon convinced me that there was good chance of a few clear, stable hours from darkness onward so I carefully packed up the Tak and checked Stellarium for what I'd be able to hunt down off my remaining Messier list. The Messier tally has languished at 97 for some time and with just a sliver of moon I was hopeful to fill in a few gaps on the Virgo/Coma galaxies and maybe have another hunt for M109 which has eluded me to date!  This was to be the first time out to my dark-ish spot (a decent Bortle 4) with the Tak 100DC so I was excited to find out what it could do. 

I was at my usual spot on a farm track just beyond Cheesefoot Head on the A272 by around 10pm and immediately struck by the stillness. Its a blowy spot up there typically but Friday night was magically still, a thin crescent moon dipping in the West with Venus hanging above - a magical night.  Looking more critically I could see all the main stars in Ursa Minor and pick out the Beehive and Coma Star Cluster (Melotte 111) quite easily, also light extinction from the port at Southampton and along the Solent toward Portsmouth was at this point less intrusive than it often is. There were some bands of slightly reduced transparency from high mist but good in between and seeing above about 30 degrees looked stable, at least up to the 140x I had on board with the Pentax 5mm.  EPs for the night were a Baader Hyperion 24mm giving 31x, Morpheus 12.5mm - 59x, Pentax XW 5mm giving 148x and a Baader 8-24mm zoom, which mainly stayed on the tray after aligning.  

I planned to "cheat" and use GoTo so really took my time levelling the tripod and aligning at high power to get things as accurate as possible, aligning on Venus and Arcturus. 

Venus itself was a little low by then to take any real power but I did have a play with my new Pentax XW 5mm and, although slightly swimming, was pleased to see a good sized gibbous disc with a hint of gradation around the terminator. Made a mental note to have a proper look at Venus earlier in the evening one night soon if I can.  

Took a quick look at Algieba's lovely golden headlights and then dropped to the first galaxy of the day, the Leo Triplet - M65 & M66 immediately visible with some extent to M66 that grew when I looked directly at M65.  Of NGC 3628 there was no sign at this point but then  I wasn't yet fully dark adapted. A good start though and a sign that galaxy hunting was worth pursuing. 

At this point I was bathed in light from a car pulling in to the gateway where I park about 150m or so away.  I could see a torch being played across my vehicle and then a flash of reflective yellow and blue, I was receiving a visit from Hampshire's finest.  I walked over to explain that it was my car and couldn't pass up the chance to introduce myself with an "Evenin' all...".  The officers were quite interested and I pointed out Venus & a couple of things for them and they wished me a good evening and went on their way. Nice to know they're out there. 

I used their headlights to take a photo of my rig in the field and then started dark adaptation all over again! 

Looked at M105, immediately apparent as a fuzzy oval, with NGC 3384 dimly visible as a nearby smudge, a good test for my main targets in Coma Bernices.  

On into virgo and M86 and M84, well seen, panning East along Markarian's Chain marvelling at the field with multiple galaxies - NGC 4461, NGC 4473, NGC 4477 positively identified, other nearby smudges on the limit of vision. 

Next up M87 and probably the best view I've had of this one so far with a noticeably brighter core and wider nebulous oval than I remembered. 

Confident that I was now properly dark adapted and with my "fuzzies eye" well in around the right magnitude, I made the hop a degree or so NE to look for M88 - which to my delight was found quite easily amid a triangle of c.Mag 10 stars. More an oval than a fuzzy star and certainly with reasonable luminosity.  

Then dropped around a degree SE to, hopefully, pick up M91.  This one much fainter and it took a good 10 minutes of peering, panning and 'scope tapping to convince me that the faintest of grey patches I was seeing at the end of a dog-leg of c.Mag 10 stars was in fact the target. No sign of that barred spiral shape from the photos but a faint grey cloud, vaguely round, reminded me of how it felt the first time  I confirmed M33, only smaller.   

I had a quick look at M100 which although very faint had revealed some spiral form in previous sessions and I could certainly see some dim shape, so vague that it almost appeared to be moving in averted vision. 

In the 4" Tak these were not objects that will immediately make my "greatest hits" list but very satisfying to move the Messier tally on by 2 to 99 after a long pause! 

I'd thought about trying for M109 but Phecda in Ursa Major was almost bang overhead at this point so picked off a couple of favourites instead. 

M3 and M13 both looked great as always and I got to spend some time on them with my new Pentax XW 5mm (148x).  M13 in particular was spectacular with skeins of stars spreading out from a dense glittering ball, dark veins visible in AV.  I am taking a bit of time to get used to the eye placement with the Pentax XW, eye relief seems more than I am used to, feels almost like a "screen" that you look at rather than into. If I get to close I am getting a bit of kidney-beaning, this makes it challenging to use in the garden where there's ambient light, but enjoyed much more success with it out here in a darker spot.  The images themselves are very crisp and flat to the edge so I will definitely stick with it, for other focal lengths though I might pick up more of the Morpheus range, certainly the 12.5mm I find a joy to look through and proved a superb galaxy hunter. 

Fingers and toes were beginning to numb by this stage so I briefly swept around the Double Cluster and NGC457 the Owl/ET before starting to pack up. As I back from the 'scope a bright yellow fireball crossed from the N, westward across Cassiopeia leaving a trail that persisted for a couple of seconds, a magic end to a great night!  

(One final event, as I was packing away I noticed someone else poking about the car - not a lot of walkers up here after midnight so I packed away in stealth mode, popping the counterweight in my back pocket for reassurance, but there was no further incident).  As I drove back down the hill, I met the rising mist building in the valley and creeping along the Solent, I reckon I'd had the best of the night. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by SuburbanMak

[Blahblahman]

What a great eve! I already had plans for Fri but did get some time in between the clouds on Sun to get some good Moon and Venus viewing in. Conditions were actually quite good up to 170x and that was in my back garden in Petersfield with a warm scope. 

 

I reckon you had the best of it!

[cajen2]

Nice report, SUM.

Your description of the 5mil XW chimes with mine: eye position can be tricky - good EP otherwise. I find my Morpheus 6.5mm much easier to use. Maybe we'd both be happier with a Morph 4.5mm (159x in my Starfield).

[Enceladus Dan]

3 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

farm track just beyond Cheesefoot Head

I'm not to far from winchester and often wondered about going to cheesefoot head. Security has always made me change my mind with being close to the road and never know who may come along.  do you need to ask anyone's permission for the farm track? 

Clear skies

Danny

[Guest]

7 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

A little late in writing up Friday's session on the South Downs above Winchester but wanted to record it here as it was good night! 

Although Clear Outside was showing less than promising local conditions, a look at the Met Office Cloud Cover and Jetstream forecasts on Friday afternoon convinced me that there was good chance of a few clear, stable hours from darkness onward so I carefully packed up the Tak and checked Stellarium for what I'd be able to hunt down off my remaining Messier list. The Messier tally has languished at 97 for some time and with just a sliver of moon I was hopeful to fill in a few gaps on the Virgo/Coma galaxies and maybe have another hunt for M109 which has eluded me to date!  This was to be the first time out to my dark-ish spot (a decent Bortle 4) with the Tak 100DC so I was excited to find out what it could do. 

I was at my usual spot on a farm track just beyond Cheesefoot Head on the A272 by around 10pm and immediately struck by the stillness. Its a blowy spot up there typically but Friday night was magically still, a thin crescent moon dipping in the West with Venus hanging above - a magical night.  Looking more critically I could see all the main stars in Ursa Minor and pick out the Beehive and Coma Star Cluster (Melotte 111) quite easily, also light extinction from the port at Southampton and along the Solent toward Portsmouth was at this point less intrusive than it often is. There were some bands of slightly reduced transparency from high mist but good in between and seeing above about 30 degrees looked stable, at least up to the 140x I had on board with the Pentax 5mm.  EPs for the night were a Baader Hyperion 24mm giving 31x, Morpheus 12.5mm - 59x, Pentax XW 5mm giving 148x and a Baader 8-24mm zoom, which mainly stayed on the tray after aligning.  

I planned to "cheat" and use GoTo so really took my time levelling the tripod and aligning at high power to get things as accurate as possible, aligning on Venus and Arcturus. 

Venus itself was a little low by then to take any real power but I did have a play with my new Pentax XW 5mm and, although slightly swimming, was pleased to see a good sized gibbous disc with a hint of gradation around the terminator. Made a mental note to have a proper look at Venus earlier in the evening one night soon if I can.  

Took a quick look at Algieba's lovely golden headlights and then dropped to the first galaxy of the day, the Leo Triplet - M65 & M66 immediately visible with some extent to M66 that grew when I looked directly at M65.  Of NGC 3628 there was no sign at this point but then  I wasn't yet fully dark adapted. A good start though and a sign that galaxy hunting was worth pursuing. 

At this point I was bathed in light from a car pulling in to the gateway where I park about 150m or so away.  I could see a torch being played across my vehicle and then a flash of reflective yellow and blue, I was receiving a visit from Hampshire's finest.  I walked over to explain that it was my car and couldn't pass up the chance to introduce myself with an "Evenin' all...".  The officers were quite interested and I pointed out Venus & a couple of things for them and they wished me a good evening and went on their way. Nice to know they're out there. 

I used their headlights to take a photo of my rig in the field and then started dark adaptation all over again! 

Looked at M105, immediately apparent as a fuzzy oval, with NGC 3384 dimly visible as a nearby smudge, a good test for my main targets in Coma Bernices.  

On into virgo and M86 and M84, well seen, panning East along Markarian's Chain marvelling at the field with multiple galaxies - NGC 4461, NGC 4473, NGC 4477 positively identified, other nearby smudges on the limit of vision. 

Next up M87 and probably the best view I've had of this one so far with a noticeably brighter core and wider nebulous oval than I remembered. 

Confident that I was now properly dark adapted and with my "fuzzies eye" well in around the right magnitude, I made the hop a degree or so NE to look for M88 - which to my delight was found quite easily amid a triangle of c.Mag 10 stars. More an oval than a fuzzy star and certainly with reasonable luminosity.  

Then dropped around a degree SE to, hopefully, pick up M91.  This one much fainter and it took a good 10 minutes of peering, panning and 'scope tapping to convince me that the faintest of grey patches I was seeing at the end of a dog-leg of c.Mag 10 stars was in fact the target. No sign of that barred spiral shape from the photos but a faint grey cloud, vaguely round, reminded me of how it felt the first time  I confirmed M33, only smaller.   

I had a quick look at M100 which although very faint had revealed some spiral form in previous sessions and I could certainly see some dim shape, so vague that it almost appeared to be moving in averted vision. 

In the 4" Tak these were not objects that will immediately make my "greatest hits" list but very satisfying to move the Messier tally on by 2 to 99 after a long pause! 

I'd thought about trying for M109 but Phecda in Ursa Major was almost bang overhead at this point so picked off a couple of favourites instead. 

M3 and M13 both looked great as always and I got to spend some time on them with my new Pentax XW 5mm (148x).  M13 in particular was spectacular with skeins of stars spreading out from a dense glittering ball, dark veins visible in AV.  I am taking a bit of time to get used to the eye placement with the Pentax XW, eye relief seems more than I am used to, feels almost like a "screen" that you look at rather than into. If I get to close I am getting a bit of kidney-beaning, this makes it challenging to use in the garden where there's ambient light, but enjoyed much more success with it out here in a darker spot.  The images themselves are very crisp and flat to the edge so I will definitely stick with it, for other focal lengths though I might pick up more of the Morpheus range, certainly the 12.5mm I find a joy to look through and proved a superb galaxy hunter. 

Fingers and toes were beginning to numb by this stage so I briefly swept around the Double Cluster and NGC457 the Owl/ET before starting to pack up. As I back from the 'scope a bright yellow fireball crossed from the N, westward across Cassiopeia leaving a trail that persisted for a couple of seconds, a magic end to a great night!  

(One final event, as I was packing away I noticed someone else poking about the car - not a lot of walkers up here after midnight so I packed away in stealth mode, popping the counterweight in my back pocket for reassurance, but there was no further incident).  As I drove back down the hill, I met the rising mist building in the valley and creeping along the Solent, I reckon I'd had the best of the night. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My goodness ... How do you see anything with all that light pollution.  That is insane 

[SuburbanMak]

19 hours ago, Enceladus Dan said:

 do you need to ask anyone's permission for the farm track? 

No permission required as it’s on a public bridleway called Kings Way.  I’ve had no real security concerns bar that one chap looking at my car the other night.  

I’ve once met a fellow astronomer up there looking for the recent comet, one couple enjoying the, ahem, view and once a radio amateur parked up in the lay-by.  That plus my chat with the police this time is the sum total of people spotted in 20+ outings over two years. 

The actual Cheesefoot Head car park attracts a bit more activity but I’m a few hundred yards further on and even that tends to die down along with the volume of passing vehicles by midnight or so.  

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by SuburbanMak

[Littleguy80]

4 hours ago, cajen2 said:

Nice report, SUM.

Your description of the 5mil XW chimes with mine: eye position can be tricky - good EP otherwise. I find my Morpheus 6.5mm much easier to use. Maybe we'd both be happier with a Morph 4.5mm (159x in my Starfield).

I just checked and eyecup on XW 5mm is twist up so you can adjust to whatever’s comfortable for you  

[cajen2]

2 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I just checked and eyecup on XW 5mm is twist up so you can adjust to whatever’s comfortable for you  

In my case, I need the max eye relief so the eyecup on my XW 5mm stays down.

[Enceladus Dan]

3 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

The actual Cheesefoot Head car park attracts a bit more activity

That's what put me off trying it out, I must look into the farm tracks now then. I Was thinking it could be a good place for a milkyway shot with my nifty fifty lens. 

Also it would be nice to get away from the city Street lights. 

Clear skies 

Danny

[GordonD]

Great report, I enjoyed reading it - thanks for posting. Sounded like a great evening.

[John]

Very nice report - I enjoyed reading it 🙂

As others have said, if you don't wear glasses then the top section of the XW eyepieces need to be well towards or at their highest positions to avoid eye positioning issues. If you wear glasses then the opposite is often the case.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by John

[John]

Posted in error.

Edited April 25, 2023 by John

[SuburbanMak]

4 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

I just checked and eyecup on XW 5mm is twist up so you can adjust to whatever’s comfortable for you  

Interesting - I just seemed to completely unscrew something, I’ll have another look. 

[SuburbanMak]

48 minutes ago, John said:

Very nice report - I enjoyed reading it 🙂

As others have said, if you don't wear glasses then the top section of the XW eyepieces need to be well towards or at their highest positions to avoid eye positioning issues. If you wear glasses then the opposite is often the case.

 

Thanks John - I’ll have another play with it, looked to me like the rubber section just unscrews without delivering much in the way of increased height, could entirely be user error! 

[John]

1 minute ago, SuburbanMak said:

Thanks John - I’ll have another play with it, looked to me like the rubber section just unscrews without delivering much in the way of increased height, could entirely be user error! 

The topmost tapered part does just unscrew but that is not the eyecup adjustment. It is the whole top section of the eyepiece, the whole of the rubber coated part, that will turn and move either upwards or downwards. The travel is about 15-16mm taken from my XW 5mm.

 

[SuburbanMak]

5 hours ago, Mike Q said:

My goodness ... How do you see anything with all that light pollution.  That is insane 

The photos massively exaggerate it and are quite long exposures, shows the light is there but above about 30 degrees things were not too bad and good higher up and to the N round to E. 

[SuburbanMak]

2 minutes ago, John said:

The topmost tapered part does just unscrew but that is not the eyecup adjustment. It is the whole top section of the eyepiece, the whole of the rubber coated part, that will turn and move either upwards or downwards. The travel is about 15-16mm taken from my XW 5mm.

 

Now this is a revelation - thank you! 

[SuburbanMak]

Good Lord so it does! 
Thanks @John can’t believe I missed that   That will make all the difference, just need some more clear skies now.