First proper night observing and a few questions and input

[Bogmonster]

Hey gang,

I finally got my first proper night observing last night (I'm in Ireland) and even though it wasn't planned or really successful, I thoroughly enjoyed it! 

I'm using my Celestron Nexstar Evolution 9.25 and last night was more about getting used to it and getting a feel for everything in general. Once I got it aligned it was really easy to use. My first trip out with it wasn't really successful as I had to do everything manually since I never charged it before I went out. But I did get some great views of the full moon so it wasn't a complete bust.

Last night however I did see a few things and I have a few questions too.

It was absolutely freezing cold and by the time I came in my hands and feet were nearly numb and I could see dew and frost starting to form on the grass and on my mount and scope (even on the dew shield).

First thing I saw (apart for some bright stars) was the Andromeda galaxy which I was very pleased to see even though it looked like a white smudge. I was using a 40 mm eyepiece. I also have a 15 mm and 9 mm eyepiece but these gave a pretty similar result. Am I right in using the 40 mm eyepiece for galaxies and nebulae or is there a better option? 

According to the SkyPortal app, Mars and Uranus were in the sky too. I figured Uranus was only going to be a pale spot, which is what I saw (possibly a very dim blue colour to it?) and Mars wasn't really what I expected. It was more of a white orb (kind of like a smooth version of the moon or some of the pictures of the phases of Venus) through the 9 mm eyepiece. Does this sound right for this time of year?

I pretty much went through the "tonights best" in the app and some objects I couldn't see (like the Pinwheel galaxy) but overall I was very happy and would've stayed out longer if it wasn't for the cold. I was observing between 9:30 pm and 11 pm.

One thing I did want to ask is how dark does it need to be for good viewing conditions? The sky wasn't pitch black (more of a very very dark blue) but there was plenty of stars out. I can't get the Clear Outside app on Android so I was using Good To Stargaze which seems to be ok. 

Would my views of these be better and clearer in a much darker sky or is this still ok (going by my descriptions)?

Anything else I should be aware of or something different I could be doing to improve my experience?

Thanks in advance for your help on these very novice questions!

[Jasonb]

Nice one, glad you got out! It was fairly clear last night alright, but cold, as you said (I'm in Kildare, and I'm pretty much a novice as well.)

First things first, thick socks and gloves!  My own observing last night stopped 'cos I got cold! I've been meaning to get gloves that you can cover/uncover your fingers, and last night's session reminded me of this! And layers as well, multiple layers.

I don't have your type of scope, so I'm not sure what results you can expect, but I have also seen Andromeda and it tends to be a white smudge for me too! That's when I can see it, I have a lot of nearby street/house lights going on unfortunately. 

Uranus would be pretty small alright, and Mars (as I understand it) is moving away from us and getting smaller, so a disc with maybe a hint of orange is what I'd expect there. I haven't managed to see the Pinwheel Galaxy yet, but I am searching for darker skies myself. Also, it wasn't crisp clear last night, there were definitely wisps of cloud passing here and there, and that would affect the quality of the seeing as well.

A darker sky is *always* going to help! Hence my current search for one. It makes so much more visible, and things like the Andromeda Galaxy, or the Orion Nebula, would stand out a lot more. I do find that if I spend time looking at something, maybe moving the scope around a little or using averted vision, more detail slowly reveals itself, as your eyes adjust. Obviously, reducing lights (from your house, from your phone etc.) all helps too.

It does sound like you got your Scope up and running well, and were able to find what you wanted (your Scope is a "Go-To" scope, isn't it)? People familiar with your Scope will be able to give specific advice about using it, and what Eyepieces to use with it.

I do find it handy to have a list of what you want to see before you go out, so you're not just standing in the cold wondering what to do next! Using the Tonight's Best is a good idea for that, by the sound of it!

And now, fingers crossed we don't have to wait a couple of weeks for another clear night, especially as the Moon will start making an appearance again in a week or so, and its light will wash out the sky a little.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Jasonb

[Bogmonster]

@Jasonb thanks very much for the reply! Delighted to hear I'm on the right track. My scope does have a go-to mount which made it easy. I will definitely be looking forward to the moon coming back myself as I haven't really had a chance to properly observe it in the best conditions. Full moon was really cool but I'm told a crescent moon is the best. So that will be nice.

Unfortunately Venus and Jupiter were too low and behind my trees to see them. I figured the night wasn't optimal but I was able to see a few things. One in particular that I liked was a cluster that looked like 2 or 3 stars to the naked eye but was a whole bunch through the scope. I can't remember the name of it now. I've been keeping a track of what I've seen and the tonights best function will be my source for now while I get more familiar with everything.

I had gloves but they made things a bit clumsy so I took them off. But my hands were so numb it was really awkward getting the scope and go-to mount off the main mount and I also didn't want to drop any eyepieces. I think next time will be a good pair of warm boots and double socks for sure.

Cheers! 

[Ratlet]

If you can get our early, Jupiter and Venus will look pretty good even if the sky is in twilight.

If you double your socks, make sure it doesn't make your boots too small.  Thick socks are great unless they start to squeeze your feet which can make them get cold quicker.

Sound like a good session.  Planets are past their best for many of us (if you can see them at all).  DSO will benefit from the sky being as dark as possible, but sometimes you get this thin high atmospheric cloud that really kills the view, especially for faint ones.

Have a look at clusters.  Auriga has a fair few that will be high up just now and they look great (m36, m37 and m38)

[Jasonb]

One of the things I love is when you point at a couple of stars, look through the scope, and see a whole field of stars in front of you!  As @Ratlet says, clusters are great for this. I rarely have the scope out and don't look at Pleiades, it's just one of my favourites.

The moon is great to look at (especially when not full, you can see a lot of detail on the terminator between the lit up part and the darker part), but once it's out it's even harder again to see some of the DSO, like the galaxies/nebulae etc.

Yep, gloves can be awkward, hence me looking for ones that are fingerless but with a mitten part that covers them when needed. The best of both worlds!

 

[bosun21]

35 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Yep, gloves can be awkward, hence me looking for ones that are fingerless but with a mitten part that covers them when needed.

You want to get a pair of Astro gloves. They are great quality and just your essential fingertips are exposed in order to tweak your equipment.

[Bogmonster]

@Ratlet I'll check those out. I'm hoping my next session will be a bit better. I have some time off work over the next few days too so I'll probably stay out later if I get out.

@bosun21 I had no idea there was such a thing as astro gloves. Where did you buy them?

[bosun21]

40 minutes ago, Bogmonster said:

@Ratlet I'll check those out. I'm hoping my next session will be a bit better. I have some time off work over the next few days too so I'll probably stay out later if I get out.

@bosun21 I had no idea there was such a thing as astro gloves. Where did you buy them?

I bought them on here in the classifieds from @Littleguy80. Message him and ask him where he bought them.

[PeterC65]

One of the snags with visual astronomy is that the best nights for observing are often cold, clear winter nights. Wrap up warm as you won't be moving around much. I now have an array of kit for this purpose:

• Snow boots - to keep my feet warm when standing on cold ground.
• Base layer top and bottoms - my latest purchase and they make quite a difference.
• Balaclava - I just leave my face exposed, including my mouth as when this is covered it directs my breath upwards and that fogs up the eyepiece.
• Cycling gloves - these are thin but warm(ish) so I can handle eyepieces, but I also put my hands in my pockets whenever possible.

Even with all this I can't manage much more than two hours.

My scope / mount are often covered in dew when I'm finished on a cold night. I leave everything in the house assembled until the following morning to properly dry out, and I use desiccant packs in the closed scopes (your SCT is closed) and the eyepiece case.

Visual astronomy takes considerable practice. That might sound daft given that it's just looking at things with a bit of magnification, but there is considerable skill involved in just observing and certainly in using the kit appropriately. I'd strongly recommend you sit down to observe which is easy to do with an SCT as you can cant over the diagonal to keep the eyepiece roughly horizontal and then sit on a stool with your eyepiece case easily accessible at your feet (that's the main reason for having an eyepiece case in my opinion).

Andromeda has always been a bit disappointing for me as I can never see anything like its full extent, just the bright core, and it's just a smudge with no sign of structure. Almost all galaxies are like this for me (my maximum aperture scope is 6"). I'd recommend observing M81 and M82 though. I find them more impressive than andromeda, particularly if you can get them both in the same field of view.

Uranus is indeed just a pale blue dot, just discernably a disc and not a star. Mars is a definite disc that looks white with a bit of orange. I find Mars disappointing, but just wait until you can see Jupiter and Saturn, they are a whole different ball game.

Star clusters are great targets, as are the brighter nebulae. If M42 is still visible for you then take a look at it. It is amazing.

I have GOTO and used the best of initially but now I plan the session using Stellarium planetarium software (free and very good). I write down the IDs of the targets for the night, starting from the part of the sky that will be highest at the start of the session and progressing to targets that are just rising at the start. I use the GOTO to find each target, using a red torch to read my list so as not to mess up my eyes dark adaption.

You can get the Clear Outside app on Android by the way.

 

 

[bosun21]

10 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

Base layer top and bottoms - my latest purchase and they make quite a difference.

I’ll second that. It’s surprising how much of a difference top and bottom thermals make during a cold session.🥶

[Bogmonster]

Thanks @PeterC65 I'll check those out too. The Clear Outside app is in the Play store but won't work on my phone as it was made for an older version of Android apparently 🤔

[bosun21]

3 minutes ago, Bogmonster said:

Thanks @PeterC65 I'll check those out too. The Clear Outside app is in the Play store but won't work on my phone as it was made for an older version of Android apparently 🤔

It does work despite the notice about about an older Android. I have the most recent Android on my Google Pixel and it works just fine.

[Bogmonster]

@bosun21 how did you download it? I don't have the option to download it. It just shows the icon and says it's not available for my device.

[bosun21]

7 minutes ago, Bogmonster said:

@bosun21 how did you download it? I don't have the option to download it. It just shows the icon and says it's not available for my device.

I just checked and my phone is running Android 13. It just downloaded like any other app. Perhaps you could download it from somewhere else like the First Light Optics website link and use the developer function to allow unverified apps.

[Bogmonster]

10 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

I just checked and my phone is running Android 13. It just downloaded like any other app. Perhaps you could download it from somewhere else like the First Light Optics website link and use the developer function to allow unverified apps.

I tried getting it from the website and on the play store and I don't have the option. Also running Android 13. Don't know why that is.

[bosun21]

10 minutes ago, Bogmonster said:

I tried getting it from the website and on the play store and I don't have the option. Also running Android 13. Don't know why that is.

Which phone do you have?

[bosun21]

You have to activate allow unverified apps to use the link to download the app from the FLO website.

[SuburbanMak]

Sounds like a great session & 9.25" is a big 'scope that will show you fabulous things!   Your point about getting out somewhere darker is spot on - to me it makes a huge difference particularly if looking for fainter/fuzzier things.  I have long & vague lists of things to look at from the observing sites I use with different levels of darkness & don't even bother looking for faint things from my garden - star clusters, doubles, the very brightest DSO's, planets and the moon (& sometimes a glass of wine) for relaxed garden sessions.  Galaxy hunting is for when I get out of town. 

3 belters to add to your list if you haven't already... (I'm biased as all 3 blew me away last night & stayed etched on my mind's eye as I went to sleep) 

Globular cluster M13, roughly half way along the top of the "keystone" shape in Hercules - will look amazing in your 'scope.   

M81/82 - a pair of galaxies in the same field near the Plough, one a stripe side on, the other a bright core with a faint spiral. 

The Double Cluster - NGC 884 & 869, half way between Perseus & the W of Cassiopeia - I look at this pretty much every time I go out with whatever I am pointing at the sky. 

I think you're on to the main thing already, which is to get out as often as you can - so far since picking the hobby back up at the start of lockdown after a lonnng absence, I have had many nights when I have regretted not going out and none where I have regretted getting out there  

 

 

 

[Bogmonster]

20 hours ago, bosun21 said:

You have to activate allow unverified apps to use the link to download the app from the FLO website.

One Plus 8 Pro. I've tried everything but I don't even get the option to download it. And I can't allow unverified apps without a download option. It's weird.

[Bogmonster]

@SuburbanMakthanks for the tips! I'll check those out.

Im fortunate to be living out in the country with no neighbours and little to no light pollution. On a dark night you can barely see the house from 20 feet away and even without a scope the stars are unreal. I'm like you, haven't regretted getting out yet. Unfortunately the weather hasn't been on my side.

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, Bogmonster said:

One Plus 8 Pro. I've tried everything but I don't even get the option to download it. And I can't allow unverified apps without a download option. It's weird.

Go into your settings and go to about phone. Scroll down to Build number and tap about 7-10 times. This will unlock developer options and inside that is allow unverified apps.

[SuburbanMak]

2 hours ago, Bogmonster said:

you can barely see the house from 20 feet away

Oh Wow!  That sounds amazing.  

[Bogmonster]

21 hours ago, bosun21 said:

Go into your settings and go to about phone. Scroll down to Build number and tap about 7-10 times. This will unlock developer options and inside that is allow unverified apps.

Thanks. But that didn't work either. There's a million options but nothing for unverified apps. The only option for unverified apps needs the app already installed and I don't get the option from the play store to install it.

[jetstream]

M101, the Pinwheel galaxy can be tough- I'd stick with what @SuburbanMak recommended. After a while youll get to know what makes some things easier or harder to see such as the surface brightness of extended objects etc.

Congrats for getting out!

Gerry

[Jasonb]

3 hours ago, Bogmonster said:

Thanks. But that didn't work either. There's a million options but nothing for unverified apps. The only option for unverified apps needs the app already installed and I don't get the option from the play store to install it.

You can also use Clear Outside online on the website, but for what it's worth, its as accurate as any other forecast!

Edited March 17, 2023 by Jasonb