Dusting off an old Celestron 5 SE. Need advice

[birdog1960]

Hi.  New to the forum and hoping to get back into astronomy.  Started with a 6 inch orion dobsonian and enjoyed it.  "moved up" to the 5se about 5 years ago and got frustrated very quickly with goto alignment (which was the primary reason I bought it) so it has sat unused for years.  Saw a software update for it, uploaded it and bought the cabling.  Then saw the $100 wifi dongle which looks easier and perhaps better and it's ordered.  Recently saw a $500 "automatic" celestron alignment tool.  What is the best choice?  All are returnable at this point.  I'm just looking to make it enjoyable again without the frustration (and would rather not spend $500 -$100 is reasonable if it brings back the joy).  Also it's been sitting inside with the dust cover on.  Optics look good.  Any special care needed there?  Thanks in advance.

Edited December 17, 2022 by birdog1960

[birdog1960]

4 hours ago, birdog1960 said:

Hi.  New to the forum and hoping to get back into astronomy.  Started with a 6 inch orion dobsonian and enjoyed it.  "moved up" to the 5se about 5 years ago and got frustrated very quickly with goto alignment (which was the primary reason I bought it) so it has sat unused for years.  Saw a software update for it, uploaded it and bought the cabling.  Then saw the $100 wifi dongle which looks easier and perhaps better and it's ordered.  Recently saw a $500 "automatic" celestron alignment tool.  What is the best choice?  All are returnable at this point.  I'm just looking to make it enjoyable again without the frustration (and would rather not spend $500 -$100 is reasonable if it brings back the joy).  Also it's been sitting inside with the dust cover on.  Optics look good.  Any special care needed there?  Thanks in advance.

Bump

[Cosmic Geoff]

My advice is to read the manual for the 5SE (you can download it if you have lost it) and master the art of doing the "2 star auto align".  It is quite easy to do, once you have practiced it a few times, and provided you know which bright star is which up there.

If you want it even simpler, if you want to observe Mars, select "Solar System Align", aim the thing at Mars, and job almost done...

If you think the Nexstar system is hard to master, it's a piece of cake compared with the Sky-watcher Synscan for an equatorial mount. We have a constant stream of newbies baffled by those mounts. 🙂

The wifi dongle probably won't help you, as I expect you will have to do the same alignment stuff, only using your phone instead of  a cabled handset.

I assume the $500 is for the Celestron Starsense camera and handset.  I actually have one, which is used on a C8 SE, big brother of your outfit. Once one has sorted out the setup (quite a task in itself), it works well and I can carry out the C8 SE system, put it down, power it  up, enter the time and date, and let it align itself while I fetch out a box of eyepieces, stool etc, instead of having to crouch behind the scope pressing buttons for a 2-star alignment.  If this convenience is worth $500 to you, fine. If not, stick to the basic system.

[birdog1960]

1 hour ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

My advice is to read the manual for the 5SE (you can download it if you have lost it) and master the art of doing the "2 star auto align".  It is quite easy to do, once you have practiced it a few times, and provided you know which bright star is which up there.

If you want it even simpler, if you want to observe Mars, select "Solar System Align", aim the thing at Mars, and job almost done...

If you think the Nexstar system is hard to master, it's a piece of cake compared with the Sky-watcher Synscan for an equatorial mount. We have a constant stream of newbies baffled by those mounts. 🙂

The wifi dongle probably won't help you, as I expect you will have to do the same alignment stuff, only using your phone instead of  a cabled handset.

I assume the $500 is for the Celestron Starsense camera and handset.  I actually have one, which is used on a C8 SE, big brother of your outfit. Once one has sorted out the setup (quite a task in itself), it works well and I can carry out the C8 SE system, put it down, power it  up, enter the time and date, and let it align itself while I fetch out a box of eyepieces, stool etc, instead of having to crouch behind the scope pressing buttons for a 2-star alignment.  If this convenience is worth $500 to you, fine. If not, stick to the basic system.

Thanks.    Would the dongle not add GPS and thus automatically tell the scope lat/longitude?  Looking at the number of upgrades by celestron to firmware/software, I assume they have improved the system significantly over the last 5-7 years.  Is this true?  Many reviewers on amazon mention difficulty loading the handset firmware update and thus buy the dongle with some success..  Pretty sure I got the correct combination of cables (good lord, should have been in the original box!) to do it but before using them I'd like to know if the dongle is an easier way to "load" my scope. my understanding is that in the dongle configuration, the apps program does the work without the scope needing the algorithms therein?  It amazes me that this is so difficult.  I tinker with complicated audio equipment with fine and amazing adjustments (eg room correction software) without nearly the difficulty.  Seems companies like Celestron are less consumer friendly than companies like Denon or even Yamaha in this regard.  Perhaps the best option is carefully unboxing the dongle and using it with the free sky portal app (which i have and looks good).  My understanding is that this is a stripped down version of another app from another developer.  In your opinion, is that upgrade worth it?    Also, does the dongle not id objects for the user during alignment? Thanks in advance.

Edited December 18, 2022 by birdog1960

[Cosmic Geoff]

The wifi dongle will NOT provide GPS unless it explicitly says it does, or it can pick it up from the mobile phone.  There may be a Celestron GPS module that provides GPS. Whatever the dongle does, it is not automatically going to align the scope with the night sky for you (that is what the $500 Starsense with its camera is for).  I should point out that even without GPS, you only have to enter the location once, not every night.

I have another Celestron scope (the CPC800) which has built-in GPS, and I am quite content with this (+ doing a 2-star auto align myself), as a time-saver, without wanting to put the Starsense on it.

I agree that the firmware upgrade process is difficult, but you don't have to do it if the mount is performing correctly. When did you last upgrade the firmware in your car? Your washing machine? Your electric toothbrush? Your DVD player?

I don't agree that operating the Celestron Nexstar mount is particularly difficult compared with the other gear you cite.  I was entirely unfamiliar with GoTo when I bought my 127mm Mak SLT and I managed to master the instructions and successfully use it after one night, and I'm no genius.  It found Uranus for me. Yay!

Give it another try, and if you still don't "get it" post again and we can help you.

[Shimrod]

11 hours ago, birdog1960 said:

Thanks.    Would the dongle not add GPS and thus automatically tell the scope lat/longitude?  Looking at the number of upgrades by celestron to firmware/software, I assume they have improved the system significantly over the last 5-7 years.  Is this true?  Many reviewers on amazon mention difficulty loading the handset firmware update and thus buy the dongle with some success..  Pretty sure I got the correct combination of cables (good lord, should have been in the original box!) to do it but before using them I'd like to know if the dongle is an easier way to "load" my scope. my understanding is that in the dongle configuration, the apps program does the work without the scope needing the algorithms therein?  It amazes me that this is so difficult.  I tinker with complicated audio equipment with fine and amazing adjustments (eg room correction software) without nearly the difficulty.  Seems companies like Celestron are less consumer friendly than companies like Denon or even Yamaha in this regard.  Perhaps the best option is carefully unboxing the dongle and using it with the free sky portal app (which i have and looks good).  My understanding is that this is a stripped down version of another app from another developer.  In your opinion, is that upgrade worth it?    Also, does the dongle not id objects for the user during alignment? Thanks in advance.

Never had any problems doing firmware updates on handsets using the Celestron tool (CFM)  available here: https://www.celestron.com/pages/manuals-software - it will check for, download and update any relevant firmware files for you.

I have a Starsense for alignment on my scope and it is convenient (but costly, and prices have jumped quite a lot in the last couple of years). Before going down this route, I would suggest something like a 12mm reticle eyepiece if you don't already have one. Accurate centring of the target stars when performing alignment greatly improves go-to accuracy.  It's surprising how far off-centre you can be when using a low power eyepiece and best judgement.

The wi-fi dongle adds wi-fi and nothing else - it removes the need to use or have the handset plugged in and allows control via either phone/tablet or a PC (download CPWI from the Celestron website for that). 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

I have a 5SE and it's not a difficult mount to align.  It takes practice but the real key is to make sure that everything is absolutely level before you start aligning.  I have spent much longer trying to get the tripod level than I ever had trying to get the alignment to work and it's far more difficult!  As others have said, make sure you're using a low-power eyepiece for the alignment. Also make sure that you use the two-star auto align and pick two objects that are relatively far apart in the sky or else the accuracy is much poorer.

You always have the option to plug it into a computer with the right adapter (RJ12 to serial, then serial to USB) and use something like Stellarium to manage the GOTO if you don't like the handset but I've always found this to be a bit more hassle than it's worth in a temporary setup.

[birdog1960]

Thank you all for the  advice.  I'll try again with the current software using the tips.  I live on the side of a mountain so the leveling is probably the issue (but I've used a level in the past.  Sounds like there is no magic bullet.  btw, the orion dob had a clunky goto feature that I never got to work either.  I removed it.  The Uranus comment reminded of me of this humorous  but legitimate site, don't open unless you enjoy crude humor (my British wife says my humor belongs in a high school locker room but I often don't get her humour either:  https://www.uranusgeneralstore.com.

Edited December 18, 2022 by birdog1960

[birdog1960]

4 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

I have a 5SE and it's not a difficult mount to align.  It takes practice but the real key is to make sure that everything is absolutely level before you start aligning.  I have spent much longer trying to get the tripod level than I ever had trying to get the alignment to work and it's far more difficult!  As others have said, make sure you're using a low-power eyepiece for the alignment. Also make sure that you use the two-star auto align and pick two objects that are relatively far apart in the sky or else the accuracy is much poorer.

You always have the option to plug it into a computer with the right adapter (RJ12 to serial, then serial to USB) and use something like Stellarium to manage the GOTO if you don't like the handset but I've always found this to be a bit more hassle than it's worth in a temporary setup.

when I turn on Sky portal on my phone, it displays lat/longitude.  Would this not be relayed to the scope via the dongle or the cable from a pc?

[cloudsweeper]

I never liked control via a phone/tablet.

Lat/long - enter manually.  Handset then stores the data.  Next time, just enter time and date.

Alignment - one-star or planetary works fine over a fair range.

Levelling - put a little spirit level on the mount and get it right with small adjustments to two of the legs.

No WiFi, no StarSense, no GPS module (mine broke three times).

Doug.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

4 hours ago, birdog1960 said:

when I turn on Sky portal on my phone, it displays lat/longitude.  Would this not be relayed to the scope via the dongle or the cable from a pc?

I honestly can't remember.  My 5SE is a slighly older model (around 2013?) and I haven't used a laptop with it for a long while.  I've just never seen the need as the built-in catalogue is more than good enough most of the time and entering the information into the keypad only takes a few seconds and I'd rather use the handset as using the laptop ruins my night-time eyesight adaptation.

I might use a laptop if I were imaging with it - but you won't find me doing any of that on the NexStar mount and if I were doing planetary I don't really need the tracking precision anyway.  Not that I've tried any photography since Spring!

Edited December 18, 2022 by GrumpiusMaximus

[Knighty2112]

I use a Celestron 6/8SE goto mount with a wifi dongle and control via Skysafari. The date/time and location is used from Skysafari, and as Skyportal is a slimmed down version of Skysafari made specially for Celestron it sends the same details across too to your mount. So as long as these are all correct on your phone/tablet then there should be no problem. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Knighty2112

[birdog1960]

Thanks again you all.  Next clear night  with it in the sky, I'm gonna see the smudge of the spiral galaxy (hopefully).   Andromeda with the dob actually looks pretty good when i can find it. Best eyepiece for that 12mm or add a barlow?

Edited December 19, 2022 by birdog1960

[bosun21]

18 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

make sure you're using a low-power eyepiece for the alignment.

Ideally you want to use a high power eyepiece for alignment. The higher magnification gives you better go to accuracy when you centre the alignment star. I use a 12.5mm illuminated reticle which allows high magnification and centering accuracy.

[bosun21]

2 hours ago, birdog1960 said:

Thanks again you all.  Next clear night  with it in the sky, I'm gonna see the smudge of the spiral galaxy (hopefully).   Andromeda with the dob actually looks pretty good when i can find it. Best eyepiece for that 12mm or add a barlow?

No barlow for Andromeda!