Mak 180 or C8/ C8 Edge for DSO and Moon

[Marian M]

Hi friends in astronomy, extremely happy and excited for the first time being here 😀 !

 

This would be my first post here, hence I need to give you a small background of myself. I have been enjoying astronomy for past 20 years with a Russian 20x60 Russian binocular only but last year I have decided to move up to larger instruments.

 

First acquisition has been a plain EQ5 and a 120/600 SW achro, followed soon by a MAK 127. Both instruments are great for what they are designed, and I had great time in observations with few peers, here in Romania, outside the city were we are living in.

 

At some point of time, I felt is high time to move to something larger and somehow took it in a logical order- just bought some time back a larger mount- AZEQ6. Extremely happy with it, is just playing with the 2 instruments I have now, well built, no vibration, very steady views with the 2 instruments.

 

My interest is only on visual, no imaging planning, and I like the most Moon and DSO on same place and less planets. I am looking mostly either to a C8/ C8 HD or a Mak 180, not so much Newtonians/ Dobsonian, where the discussion starts. I was looking on CC 200 and MN190 but at the end of the day I think C8 and Mak 180 are remaining on the short list. Also to mention I like binoviewing.

 

I have done plenty of reading around the 2, about large time to cool down mostly on Mak, about collimation on spot for C8, about larger obstruction/ softer view on C8, pin point stars on Mak but smaller FoV, attention to back focus for bino and so on. APO at larger aperture seem too expensive, I may buy at a latter stage an achro 150 f5.9, which should supplement well the Mak (or C8), which should be the "poor man APO" 😀

 

I understand also that Mak on Moon has a slightly advantage vs C8, hence my main question is how the 2 performs on a like to like comparison on DSO. It is that large difference between the 2 on most of the DSO? Did you have the opportunity to look through both at the same time? Are stars more “pin point” in Mak vs C8 or C8 HD?

 

Really appreciate your further answers and look forward, wish you clear skies ahead!

[johninderby]

Welcome to SGL🙂

I had a C8 and replaced with a Skymax 180 and now moved on to a CC8”. Find the CC has better on axis sharpness than either the C8 or 180 plus no dewing problems as well as very quick cooldown. Better build quality as well.  The 180 and CC are best suited to lunar / planetary and small DSOs. The C8 with a focal reducer would be better suited to DSOs in general due to the wider fov.

Collimation on the CC and 180 are very stable but the C8 is subject to more frequent collimation.

Edited November 9, 2021 by johninderby

[Stu1smartcookie]

Hi And welcome , I briefly owned a 180 Mak , so i have limited knowledge of it but as John writes the cool down time on both the Mak and the C8 will be considerable against a classical cassegrain as there is no corrector plate on the cc8 . Also i believe the primary mirror is "fixed " on the Classical Cass , so no image shift when adjusting focus , and the collimation holds . 

Having said that , i do have a soft spot for the Mak 180 ( wish i had never sold mine )  , its a beast of  scope . I don't think you will be diesapointed if you choose it .

 

[johninderby]

None of the three would be a bad choice.Just a matter of which one would suit you best. As the primary of the CC is fixed with a proper crayford focuser the focal length doesn’t change as you focus.

My solution. TS CC8” and 125 APO.

Edited November 9, 2021 by johninderby

[Marian M]

John, Stu, thanks a lot for the quick revert! @John, wonderful setup!

I was considering CC 200, but saw on forums that is not working at full aperture and kind of dimmer views than C8 because of this- otherwise the central obstruction would have been larger. Also question on CC 200- is it possible to use with a binoviewer without GPC?

[johninderby]

Compared to the C8 the CC8 there is not a really noticeable difference in brightness but the CC8 has better on axis sharpness and contrast.I have heard of someone using the CC6 with a binoviiewer with no problems so should be OK with the 8”. Overall lunar and planetary views are better than the C8.

https://astronomytechnologytoday.com/2020/01/03/gso-eight-cassegrain/

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by johninderby

[Marian M]

John, many thanks for sharing your experience, if I was clear on Mak 180 or C8, now you are changing my mind 🤔

Would take the opportunity to ask other members of the forum to share their experience with CC8, C8 or Mak 180, if you had the opportunity to have any of the 2 instruments in parallel

Anticipated thanks!

[johninderby]

As I use the CC8 primarily for visual the quick cooldown and no dewing is a real plus. Also like the proper crayford although I did upgrade to a Baader Steeltrack. The CC8 being a fairly new scope there aren’t that many with experience in using it but it is rapidly gaining a strong following.

BTW the Slymax180 was selling for £799.00 until very recently but SW have banged the price up to £1399.00. correction £979.00.

Edited November 10, 2021 by johninderby

[Captain Scarlet]

I’ve just looked at FLO’s website. The skymax is offered at £979, the CC8 for £949

[johninderby]

Stand corrected. Still a big price increase though.

[Marian M]

Not yet on buying mood, still saving money, but studying it 😄

@johninderby, i have read twice your post with the acquisition and upgrade

[dweller25]

Hello @Marian M and welcome to SGL 🙂
 

Mak 180, C8 or CC8……. Hmmmmm

I would get the Mak180 and wrap it with a couple of layers of reflectix to reduce the thermal gradients inside the OTA. They have good contrast.

But, the C8 has slightly higher resolution, slightly better light gathering and is lighter too. The C6, C8 and C9.25 I owned in the past did not have great contrast. For visual you do not need the Edge version.

The CC8 is heavy and cannot be wrapped so you will have to wait for it to cool and it may have tube currents as it’s open fronted. My GSO CC was not operating at full aperture, I believe due to the secondary being too small - by design - to keep contrast good. In my opinion it is the most compromised design of all these three designs.

I suspect a much cheaper 8” F/6 Newtonian will be just as good as any of the above scopes.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by dweller25

[johninderby]

Having had a C8 and a Skymax180 find the CC8 is definitely the best of the three in my opinion. Cools very fast and is usable in minutes which is the killer advantage over the other two.  Zero cooling problems.

[dweller25]

24 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Having had a C8 and a Skymax180 find the CC8 is definitely the best of the three in my opinion. Cools very fast and is usable in minutes which is the killer advantage over the other two.  Zero cooling problems.

I have to store my scopes in my home, so they will always be warmer than outside temperatures, thus the CC I had still took a good 30 minutes to cool with a cooling fan blowing onto the primary.

Where do you store your CC8 John ?

[Marian M]

Living in a flat, not at house, I have to prepare carefully each round of observations; if I am not using the small Mak from the balcony for Moon only/ from the middle of the city, I am putting all stuff  in the back size of the car from the morning, let the car non-exposed to Sun and usually all instruments are good with the right temperature 

 

The temperature drop here is not so big, usually there are about 10 C degrees delta between day and night, which i think should be acceptable for a Mak 180 (the worst with temperature accommodation). During the night, from 21.00 eg to 2.00 time, the delta temperature should be 2-3-4 C degrees

 

So, pretty curious to see new experiences/ comparisons between the 3 instruments in real life, mostly on DSO!

 

@dweller25, thanks a lot for sharing your experience! 👌

 

[johninderby]

18 hours ago, dweller25 said:

I have to store my scopes in my home, so they will always be warmer than outside temperatures, thus the CC I had still took a good 30 minutes to cool with a cooling fan blowing onto the primary.

Where do you store your CC8 John ?

I keep mine inside and then move it into the conservatory with the heat turned off so near to outside temp. In fact often observe from inside the conservatory which has big opening windows.

 

[dweller25]

1 hour ago, johninderby said:

I keep mine inside and then move it into the conservatory with the heat turned off so near to outside temp. In fact often observe from inside the conservatory which has big opening windows.

 

That’s exactly what I do too John….

Heated room to unheated conservatory for a couple of hours then outside.

The conservatory is around 5’C higher than outside so I find I still have to use active cooling.

I am going to try putting the scope in the garage for a couple of hours late afternoon to see if that helps…..

[johninderby]

I do have a suitable shed that I could put the scope in to cool if needed. Asgard high security steel shed. 🙂

[dweller25]

2 hours ago, Marian M said:

Living in a flat, not at house, I have to prepare carefully each round of observations; if I am not using the small Mak from the balcony for Moon only/ from the middle of the city, I am putting all stuff  in the back size of the car from the morning, let the car non-exposed to Sun and usually all instruments are good with the right temperature 

 

The temperature drop here is not so big, usually there are about 10 C degrees delta between day and night, which i think should be acceptable for a Mak 180 (the worst with temperature accommodation). During the night, from 21.00 eg to 2.00 time, the delta temperature should be 2-3-4 C degrees

 

So, pretty curious to see new experiences/ comparisons between the 3 instruments in real life, mostly on DSO!

 

@dweller25, thanks a lot for sharing your experience! 👌

 

OK - forget about the 8” Newt then as they need more space 👍

it’s a tough call between a C8 , CC8 and Mak180. The SCT will be best on DSO’s as it has a true 8” aperture but contrast is not great, the Mak seems to gets consistently good reports for sharpness and contrast but it’s only 7”,  the CC8 has been around for a couple of years now and has had variable reviews.

Good luck with your decision……

[Stu1smartcookie]

9 minutes ago, johninderby said:

I do have a suitable shed that I could put the scope in to cool if needed. Asgard high security steel shed. 🙂

Wouldn't that metal shed be a heat conductor , John ... although it does look a but shadey there . 

[johninderby]

In full shade in the late aft so heat not a problem. 🙂

Edited November 11, 2021 by johninderby

[johninderby]

Jist reading a thread on CN where they found that using a focal reducer with a C8 makes it a C7.5. 🤔

[Stu1smartcookie]

7 minutes ago, johninderby said:

In full shade in the late aft so heat not a problem. 🙂

Good stuff , John

[Marian M]

Last night i had a short period of clear sky; let the Mak 127 outside for one hour to cool down and after i got kind of 30 min of clear sky

Moon was superb through the Mak 127/ APM 13mm XWA, with kind of 115x. Was spending some time on Montes Caucasus, where the shadow was prolonging gracious to Aristillus and Autolycus craters

I have changed to the binoviewer (Lacerta with 20mm SW Gold line eyepieces) but the sky was already with some fine clouds and the view was not as brilliant as should be through a bino

 

Attaching a picture done with the phone through the APM eyepiece, from my hand direclty.

I love my small Mak 127 and looking forward to you folks to share your experience on the big brothers, the 180, C8 and now also the CC8 😀

[johninderby]

Whatever your preferences think it can only be a good thing that the choice of affordable planetary scopes in the 7” to 8” range has expanded. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Edited November 12, 2021 by johninderby