PHD Autoguiding problem

[Wael Hassan]

3 hours ago, Budgie1 said:

I questioned the alignment of the home position in the photo below because the weight bar looks angled to the West, when compared to the front leg of the tripod. I asked if this was a photo of the mount in it's Home Position. If it was, I suggested setting the home position again (video link provided which uses a spirit level for the process) and suggested marking the DEC & RA axis so the home position can be found without relying on the setting rings. 

 

Yes it was in the home position and i didnt figure out why the RA is away from the leg of tripod...but it become so after polar alignment adjustment by sharpcap

[Wael Hassan]

4 hours ago, davies07 said:

Hi Wael,

I'm not sure what you are doing here. What are you trying to align with the spirit level? Are you adjusting the elevation of the RA axis to your latitude?

I can see you have a cover over the polar scope. Have you tried using that to polar-align the mount? It would be an interesting check. You should be able to get an app for your phone that will show you where Polaris should be relative to the polar scope graticule.

I thought this screen grab might be of interest:

This is a screen grab from my last evening out. I've labelled the controls on the left of the graph. As you can see, you can make the graph look smoother by changing the scales 🙂

The guiding performance figures are the metrics I normally monitor. As you can see here, my RA guiding is suffering because of the arrival of clouds. We get a lot of clouds.

In the list of items to be plotted under 'Settings' you will see 'Star mass' and 'Star SNR'. Star SNR (signal to noise ratio) is marked by the white line at the top of my plot and it is a measure of the clarity of the guide star. I find it a useful metric since it will reduce if there are clouds or other obstructions.

I take Malc's point about people having successful guiding solutions using your equipment and finder scopes, which also have short focal lengths. Indeed, I used to use a finder scope myself when I started. So, I remain puzzled by the noisy nature of your guiding results. I wonder if you are looking over a landscape that has been heated by the daytime Sun and is producing poor seeing in the night sky by thermals rising off the hot ground. If so, you would see a lot of star 'twinkle' which is an indication of poor 'seeing'.

Good luck on your next time out.

D

 

This is excellent explaining for PHD graph ...thanks alot.... i ll try to follow video suggestrd by Budgie and advice from Malc c to make the RA axis aligned with the leg of tripod facing north.

[Wael Hassan]

3 hours ago, Budgie1 said:

I questioned the alignment of the home position in the photo below because the weight bar looks angled to the West, when compared to the front leg of the tripod. I asked if this was a photo of the mount in it's Home Position. If it was, I suggested setting the home position again (video link provided which uses a spirit level for the process) and suggested marking the DEC & RA axis so the home position can be found without relying on the setting rings. 

 

Thanks for the video i followed the steps and here is the shape of tripod now ...its still away alittle but better than the first look.... I dont understand the Marking of Home position...could u explain it more ? 

[Budgie1]

2 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

 I dont understand the Marking of Home position...could u explain it more ?

When I have the Home Position set I get a permanent marker pen and draw a line across the gap where the Dec & RA axis move. 

Then, when I rotate the RA axis for PA with SharpCap, once completed I can simple rotate the axis back until the marks line up again. I don't have to watch the setting rings. The same goes for the Dec axis if you rotate it so you can use the polar scope.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Budgie1
Spelling

[malc-c]

It's either an optical illusion caused by the camera, or the counterweight bar is bent or incorrectly fitted

 

Now it may well be that when the RA is rotated so the bar lines up with the leg all three lines will be parallel.  If EQMOD is in the HOME parked position and the scope ends up like this, then release the RA clutch and rotate the mount until the counterweight bar (green line ) is parallel to the Yellow (which should then make the red line parallel too).  Then you can mark the mount as suggested in the post above

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by malc-c

[Wael Hassan]

I have done good session yesterday for IC 4606 and RHO OPHICHUI region.. i made around 40 ×3 minutes exposure slots....i am doing strectching now for the stacked photo....But the colors still not appeared now for the nebulas .

[malc-c]

You know what really peeves me about this thread is we spend ages typing up suggestions and offering advice to resolve your guiding issue.  We ask for feedback following those suggestions, and request updated guide logs so we can see how thing may have improved.  But instead you post up  a different problem, and now  want help with PixInsight.

As you don't have the courtesy to explain how things went with the suggestions (Mine, Steve's, or David's), and what you did differently, or what you discovered was a probable cause that made it work,  I'm out of here and won't be contributing anymore to this topic.  It's a two way thing, we provide suggestions, or request screen shots or log files and you need to provide feedback so we can work with you. 

Sorry if this is blunt, and I wish you well with your journey down the imaging path, but I've already put enough of my time in to this.

[Wael Hassan]

4 hours ago, malc-c said:

You know what really peeves me about this thread is we spend ages typing up suggestions and offering advice to resolve your guiding issue.  We ask for feedback following those suggestions, and request updated guide logs so we can see how thing may have improved.  But instead you post up  a different problem, and now  want help with PixInsight.

As you don't have the courtesy to explain how things went with the suggestions (Mine, Steve's, or David's), and what you did differently, or what you discovered was a probable cause that made it work,  I'm out of here and won't be contributing anymore to this topic.  It's a two way thing, we provide suggestions, or request screen shots or log files and you need to provide feedback so we can work with you. 

Sorry if this is blunt, and I wish you well with your journey down the imaging path, but I've already put enough of my time in to this.

I dont know what i did wrong to get this angry reply.... I notrd from start of this thread that i am totally beginner....things that you may consider very simple and logic maybe so difficult for me to get it .... i shared with u all information i could have....i even attach pictures for my implementation to your ( Steve - David - Budgie) advices and if you refer to your last respond it was about my picture and aligning RA axis to the leg of tripod....so i wander why you said that i dont share anything with you..... i Put my screenshot for stacking of image because i was so happy that i finally get a nice image with good guiding because of your advice... so i want it to share with you and let you know what i am through now....Any way you were a great help and support to me....i really appreciate all your advice and follow up with me ....Thank you Malc- c

[michael8554]

I agree with Malcolm, one of the most frustrating posts I've tried to help with.

And it's the same on the PHD2 Forum.

It took forever to get him to remove the ST4 cable.

Start a new Topic for PixinSight help in the "Imaging - Imaging Processing" section.

Just think for once of the other members of this Forum.

If they were looking for other people's experience with PixinSight, why would they look in a thread on PHD2 Autoguiding Problems ?

Michael

 

[malc-c]

7 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

I dont know what i did wrong to get this angry reply.... I notrd from start of this thread that i am totally beginner....things that you may consider very simple and logic maybe so difficult for me to get it .... i shared with u all information i could have....i even attach pictures for my implementation to your ( Steve - David - Budgie) advices and if you refer to your last respond it was about my picture and aligning RA axis to the leg of tripod....so i wander why you said that i dont share anything with you..... i Put my screenshot for stacking of image because i was so happy that i finally get a nice image with good guiding because of your advice... so i want it to share with you and let you know what i am through now....Any way you were a great help and support to me....i really appreciate all your advice and follow up with me ....Thank you Malc- c

I would have thought my last post was self explanatory, but let me put it another way.  I spent upwards of an hour of my time formulating the last post, listing things in as simple way as I could for a beginner, finding and embedding an old video for you to follow.  Most of the steps were such that we could rule out possible reasons for your poor guiding issue, so forum members, possibly more experienced then me could focus on anything that your reported back.  I even advised you how to take screen captures rather than trying to work things out from rotated photos of the screens which didn't show the full window.   So we all waited here with baited breath to get your response.  To possibly see screen captures of the polar alignment in Sharpcap, or to look at the resultling guide log so we can see for ourselves the values and results PHD2 provided.... But No  You then posted up a new issue in the same thread.  So I (and others that are following the thread) have no idea if you are still having issues with guiding, or if it was resolved and you managed to get a decent result, what the cause was or at which stage of my lengthy list you found the problem.  

Michael is right, you need to think of other members of the forum.  Not just those who have contributed to this thread and posted assistance and suggestions, but to any future member who is having the same issue.  If they read through this they will never discover if the issue was ever resolved, and if it was what you did to resolve it.   Being  a beginner has no bearing on my last post... it's common courtesy that was lacking.  In any post I've made where others suggested I try things, I always reported back if their suggestions mad any difference or not.  It also helps that person making suggestions to get closure, and possibly come up with more suggestions.

Anyway, I said I would not be contributing to this thread any more yet I've added another post.  If you are now successfully guiding, please report that, and if possible detail what it was that fixed the problem, and then create a new thread in the relevant section as suggested by Michael so people can try and assist in helping you out there.

[Wael Hassan]

8 hours ago, michael8554 said:

I agree with Malcolm, one of the most frustrating posts I've tried to help with.

And it's the same on the PHD2 Forum.

It took forever to get him to remove the ST4 cable.

Start a new Topic for PixinSight help in the "Imaging - Imaging Processing" section.

Just think for once of the other members of this Forum.

If they were looking for other people's experience with PixinSight, why would they look in a thread on PHD2 Autoguiding Problems ?

Michael

 

Most frustrating ?!!!

Anyway ...if u refer to your last comment about the photos i posted here...you pointed to the usb cable and said it was st4 cable while it was the usb cable ....i alrealdy replied to u and confirmed that i had disconnectrd the st4 cable while the cable in the photo u attached is the usb not the st4 ....if you read my topic and replies well, u would get my point that the problem in guiding was in the st4 and also the usb cable ...the guiding didnt start untill i connect both...that was what my problem was....I find also your comment about my posts in phd forum or here  very weird ...is there a problem if i try to find solution for my obstacles in different places ?????

[Wael Hassan]

8 hours ago, malc-c said:

I would have thought my last post was self explanatory, but let me put it another way.  I spent upwards of an hour of my time formulating the last post, listing things in as simple way as I could for a beginner, finding and embedding an old video for you to follow.  Most of the steps were such that we could rule out possible reasons for your poor guiding issue, so forum members, possibly more experienced then me could focus on anything that your reported back.  I even advised you how to take screen captures rather than trying to work things out from rotated photos of the screens which didn't show the full window.   So we all waited here with baited breath to get your response.  To possibly see screen captures of the polar alignment in Sharpcap, or to look at the resultling guide log so we can see for ourselves the values and results PHD2 provided.... But No  You then posted up a new issue in the same thread.  So I (and others that are following the thread) have no idea if you are still having issues with guiding, or if it was resolved and you managed to get a decent result, what the cause was or at which stage of my lengthy list you found the problem.  

Michael is right, you need to think of other members of the forum.  Not just those who have contributed to this thread and posted assistance and suggestions, but to any future member who is having the same issue.  If they read through this they will never discover if the issue was ever resolved, and if it was what you did to resolve it.   Being  a beginner has no bearing on my last post... it's common courtesy that was lacking.  In any post I've made where others suggested I try things, I always reported back if their suggestions mad any difference or not.  It also helps that person making suggestions to get closure, and possibly come up with more suggestions.

Anyway, I said I would not be contributing to this thread any more yet I've added another post.  If you are now successfully guiding, please report that, and if possible detail what it was that fixed the problem, and then create a new thread in the relevant section as suggested by Michael so people can try and assist in helping you out there.

Of course i will post full detailed post about my progress in this autoguiding problem...that is in my plan from.the start....i was following suggestion here until i was shocked by your last reply....any way thank you

[malc-c]

40 minutes ago, Wael Hassan said:

Of course i will post full detailed post about my progress in this autoguiding problem...

I'm sure a lot of members will find that useful

[michael8554]

13 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

you pointed to the usb cable and said it was st4 cable while it was the usb cable

Correct, even I make mistakes sometimes............... :-<

Surely the important part was that the cable looked to be damaged, and was at a crazy angle ?

 

13 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

the problem in guiding was in the st4 and also the usb cable ...the guiding didnt start untill i connect both...that was what my problem was

Your image on Sunday, when guiding started to work, showed an ASCOM connection in the Connect Equipment window, and no ST4 cable on the camera !

If that wasn't the setup you actually used, then further attempts by you to frustrate us !

 

13 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

is there a problem if i try to find solution for my obstacles in different places ?????

Definitely not, they gave similar advice, but you ignored that too.

I'm really glad you have your guiding working. 

Michael

[Wael Hassan]

12 hours ago, michael8554 said:

Correct, even I make mistakes sometimes............... :-<

Surely the important part was that the cable looked to be damaged, and was at a crazy angle ?

 

Your image on Sunday, when guiding started to work, showed an ASCOM connection in the Connect Equipment window, and no ST4 cable on the camera !

If that wasn't the setup you actually used, then further attempts by you to frustrate us !

 

Definitely not, they gave similar advice, but you ignored that too.

I'm really glad you have your guiding working. 

Michael

Iam still working on it...i have dec curve making high peaks and the issue of doubled stars come back again.... iam not ignoring u at all i attached a pictureas evidence i followed ur advice ....what should i do further to prove that....anyway thank you 

[michael8554]

Post your latest GuideLog so we can advise.#

Michael

[malc-c]

I wasn't going to add any more to this thread.... but something was niggling at me.....

 In the image of the star clusters that was posted on Tuesday it would appear that the two images used in the stack shown have shifted. It looks like a fair amount of the underlaying image is missing from the left and bottom of image above, and with a slight rotation (field rotation??).  But the stars appear quite round.  This to me suggest that PHD2 was guiding whilst the subs were being taken, but the mount is not tracking, or its tracking as if it's an ALT / AZ mount and not an EQ Mount.  When an EQ mount is set up right and tracking the framing of the image should not change, at least not as much.  You should find that taking 10x, 20x, 30x, or more images that when stacked they  all line up at the edges and have the targets in the same place.

Personally I don't think we're looking at a PHD2 issue here,  there is more going on with how the mount us being used / set up or controlled.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

21 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Iut something was niggling at me.....

 In the image of the star clusters that was posted on Tuesday it would appear that the two images used in the stack shown have shifted. It looks like a fair amount of the underlaying image is missing from the left and bottom of image above, and with a slight rotation (field rotation??).  But the stars appear quite round.  This to me suggest that PHD2 was guiding whilst the subs were being taken, but the mount is not tracking, or its tracking as if it's an ALT / AZ mount and not an EQ Mount.  When an EQ mount is set up right and tracking the framing of the image should not change, at least not as much.  You should find that taking 10x, 20x, 30x, or more images that when stacked they  all line up at the edges and have the targets in the same place.

Personally I don't think we're looking at a PHD2 issue here,  there is more going on with how the mount us being used / set up or controlled.

I have kept out of this thread basically because all the sensible suggestions had already been made so did not want to butt in for no reason but I would totally agree with this observation and the large offset and rotation angle is not normal at all for an EQ mount.

Steve

[malc-c]

Steve, nice of you to confirm my suspicions...  Whilst I had suspicions I was correct, there was always that element of doubt after I clicked "post"

@wael Having spend another hour or so searching the net for anything that might steer  you in the right direction I came up with a few suggestions.

• Check the firmware version of your mount, and possibly update the firmware for the EQ35 From Synta's website
• Delete all profiles in EQMOD  (All user settings for EQMOD applications are stored using text files with a .ini extension. The are stored in the "application data" directory - each user has their own application data so different users can have different settings. To find the application data location type %appdata%\eqmod into the explorer address bar (makes sure you can see hidden files)).
• Uninstall EQMOD and download the latest version - U - seems you are running an older version.
• Install the latest version of EQMOD
• Run the TOOLBOX  application - From windows start button > all  programs > EQMOD > EQASCOM > Toolbox
• Click DRIVER SETUP
• In mount options leave that set to Auto Detect - Don't use the Custom setting as before
• Enter the correct latitude, longitude and elevation for your location
• Ensure ASCOPM PulseGuiding is selected under the guiding section and set the RA and DEC Rate to x0.90
• Click OK to close the config window
• On the mount make sure the RA setting circle knob is not binding. If you mis-tighten it, the RA axis won't slew correctly because the drive will slip--it can’t overcome the friction and the gears may even clash
• Click on ASCOM connect button to launch EQMOD.  By default it is expecting the mount to be parked in the default HOME position.
• Release the clutches on the mount and place the mount in the default home position, with the counterweight bar parallel and in line with the North pointing tripod leg (if the counterweight bar looks to be out of line remove it and screw it back in and make sure its not cross threaded 
• Lock the clutches on the mount
• Set the slew rate (drop down list to the right of the NSWE buttons) from 1 to 4 and unpark the mount
• Use the NSEW buttons on EQMOD to move the mount to a position pointing well away from the home position
• Click the "park to home" button
• Hopefully the mount will slew back to the same position with the counterweigh bar back in line with the tripod leg.  If it doesn't then it may be worth posting on the user group https://groups.io/g/EQMOD
• If the mount returns to the default home position then when you have a chance check the tracking  
• To check the tracking, on a clear night set the scope up and polar align as detailed in my post that I uploaded on Monday evening
• Once you are happy with the polar alignment, select a target  that is close to the elliptic and about 30 degrees up and use the NSEW buttons on EQMOD to move the mount to any star near that area.
• Enable tracking by clicking on the sidereal tracking button 
• Take a single unguided exposure that is long enough to capture some stars.
• Let the scope run for a couple of hours, in this time you should notice it has moved if its tracking.
• Take another unguided exposure of the same target.
• Park the scope to the home position.
• Check the two images in PixInsight, they should line up and stack without any rotation or overlap as mentioned above.  If it does than this confirms the mount is tracking in RA at the right rate
• Open up CDC and connect to the mount - ensuring that the location information in CDC is the same as EQMOD
• Open up PHD2 and ensure logging is enabled
• Select a target in CDC and instruct the mount to slew to target - take a single exposure to confirm its on target
• Open up PHD2 and create a new profile.
• Run through the wizard to enter the focal length and camera pixel size etc and then let PHD2 calibrate.
• Hopefully it will calibrate well enough to do a guided run

Now we are going to want screen shots of your Polar alignment results in sharpcap, the results of the two stacked tracking test images, and your PHD2 log files. 

If you find something strange happens at any point of that list, take photos and screen captures (click on the item you want to capture and then hold down the right CTRL key and hit the C key to copy, then open paint and paste the copied item)

Now as I've spent upwards of two hours researching this and formulating the post I hope you won't let me down and will provide feedback  for us.  If the feedback is not forthcoming or obscure then this will indeed be the last contribution to this thread, and possibly it won't be just me who jumps ship !  

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by malc-c

[malc-c]

And there is a way to test the guiding at any time using this emulator

 

[michael8554]

Well done Malcolm, a concise, non-rambling account of how to set up guiding.

I think you forgot to list that EQMOD default guide rate is only 0.1

Michael

[malc-c]

31 minutes ago, michael8554 said:

Well done Malcolm, a concise, non-rambling account of how to set up guiding.

I think you forgot to list that EQMOD default guide rate is only 0.1

Michael

Whoops... so I did !! - Edited

[michael8554]

Well Wael

I see you posted a GuideLog on the PHD2 Help forum, but not here.

Here's what they said:

* No Calibration

* No Guide Assistant run

* No Dec Backlash Compensation.

* Balancing in RA is not going to help improve Dec Backlash

They did say you should improve the PE, which was a topic you had already raised here.

Confirms everything we have recently said about you ignoring advice from members who have taken the time and effort to help you.

Michael

Edited April 19, 2021 by michael8554

[malc-c]

2 hours ago, michael8554 said:

Well Wael

I see you posted a GuideLog on the PHD2 Help forum, but not here.

Confirms everything we have recently said about you ignoring advice from members who have taken the time and effort to help you.

Michael

Well that's not fair.... we put in all the effort and he posts elsewhere.  And if he's ignored suggestions laid out in as basic a fashion as possible then this will indeed be my last post in this thread and he can try and work things out for himself as there is no more to be said 

[michael8554]

Well, posting on the PHD2 forum isn't really so bad.

After all they are the experts, we just make inspired guesses !

Michael