PHD Autoguiding problem

[Wael Hassan]

Hello, I am still having problem with PHD in autoguiding.... i can move the mount with EQMOD direction keys so there is no connection problem , Aldo the guide camera is connected to sharp cap and PHD withiut any problems . The only problem i have is between the mount and PHD , The mount didnt recieve any signals from PHD during autoguiding so it doesnt move also when i try to use the manual guide in PHD there is no movement at all.

[skybadger]

Check you haven't got auto Guiding  turned off ? PhD supports monitoring as well as guiding.

[skybadger]

You do t show your connection settings. Are you really connected to the mount ?

Also check you are using pulse guiding under ascom rather than anything else. 

[Wael Hassan]

57 minutes ago, skybadger said:

Check you haven't got auto Guiding  turned off ? PhD supports monitoring as well as guiding.

Hi Skybadger ;

In the first attached photo it shoes that there is Guiding at the lower left of the picture... is this what is supposed to be or you mean something else? 

[michael8554]

Welcome to the Lounge

The PHD2 message says "Calibration was completed".

This means PHD2 was able to move the mount in RA and Dec.

How well it moved RA and Dec is questionable  - "RA/Dec axis angles are questionable"

The way RA and Dec guiding graphs are zooming off in opposite directions is usually a sign that during Calibration RA and Dec were not moving at 90 degrees to each other.

I don't have EQMOD but the screenshot suggests you were at Dec 90 - pointing at Polaris ?

Post your PHD2 GuideLog.

You'll find it in the PHD folder, check the date in the filename.

Until you get a good Calibration, trying to guide is pointless.

Also read this:

https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-best-practices/

Michael

Edited March 24, 2021 by michael8554

[Wael Hassan]

4 hours ago, michael8554 said:

Welcome to the Lounge

The PHD2 message says "Calibration was completed".

This means PHD2 was able to move the mount in RA and Dec.

How well it moved RA and Dec is questionable  - "RA/Dec axis angles are questionable"

The way RA and Dec guiding graphs are zooming off in opposite directions is usually a sign that during Calibration RA and Dec were not moving at 90 degrees to each other.

I don't have EQMOD but the screenshot suggests you were at Dec 90 - pointing at Polaris ?

Post your PHD2 GuideLog.

You'll find it in the PHD folder, check the date in the filename.

Until you get a good Calibration, trying to guide is pointless.

Also read this:

https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-best-practices/

Michael

Thanks for this valuable info... i found very strange thing ...i clicked on tracking option in the hand control of the mount and once i did that the autoguiding starts .... but after a few seconds it gave me a significant deviation away from guide star again....so situation now is that the phd read my mount but it cant make suitable cotrection for it ..... i made very precise polar alignment by sharpcap by the way 

[Wael Hassan]

[Budgie1]

What mount, scope and guide scope are you using and how is the guide scope connected, is it on the finder shoe or on top of the main scope? 

Have to checked the balance of the scope on the mount in RA & DEC? This is best done once all the kit is on the mount (cameras, cables etc).

Where in the sky are you pointing to do the calibration? You should be aiming towards the South and low in the sky, somewhere towards Orion would be quite good to get you started.

Also make sure to create a Darks library (under the Tools menu) so PHD doesn't try to calibrate or guide on a hot pixel.

[michael8554]

The advice from  your post on the PHD2 Help Forum pretty much mirrored mine.

Until you get a good calibration, at Dec = 0 not Dec = 90, it's a waste of time trying to guide.

You can see in your first image that Dec and RA Cal steps are not at 90 degrees to each other, more like 20 degrees.

So when you start to guide. PHD2 thinks that almost equal amounts of correction are needed on RA and Dec.

Hence your guide graphs zoom off in opposite directions.

And PHD2 has calculated your guide rate at about 25 arcsecs/sec.

Normal rate would be about 8 to 15 arcsecs/sec.

So Cal only took 4 steps instead of 12 - one of your settings is wrong.

Shift-Click on the Guide button to start a new Calibration.

Michael

Edited March 25, 2021 by michael8554

[malc-c]

The guys have asked for more details.  Can you provide info on  the mount you are using, details of the guidescope and camera used.  It would be helpful if you could provide screen captures of the configuration settings so it can be confirmed if you have set the values correct in PHD so it can calibrate correctly.  Notes on setting EQMOD up for PHD2 guiding can be found here

 

[michael8554]

From your latest post in the PHD2 Help Forum:

Have you looked at what you have selected in the PHD2 Equipment Profile, is it similar to the images that Joera posted ?

Michael

 

[Wael Hassan]

On 25/03/2021 at 01:40, Budgie1 said:

What mount, scope and guide scope are you using and how is the guide scope connected, is it on the finder shoe or on top of the main scope? 

Have to checked the balance of the scope on the mount in RA & DEC? This is best done once all the kit is on the mount (cameras, cables etc).

Where in the sky are you pointing to do the calibration? You should be aiming towards the South and low in the sky, somewhere towards Orion would be quite good to get you started.

Also make sure to create a Darks library (under the Tools menu) so PHD doesn't try to calibrate or guide on a hot pixel.

Iam using xwo 120 mms guide camera and ASI guide scope 30mm of 120mm fical length.... i discovered that the mount were not tracking even when i switch sideral tracking in the eqmod app... also the autoguiding isnt good until i put the st4 fable with the usb cable to the mount...yes both of them must be connected sothat the autoguiding become better ....i dont know why is should put both ...i should only put st4 or the usb but they didnt work lonely

[Budgie1]

5 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

Iam using xwo 120 mms guide camera and ASI guide scope 30mm of 120mm fical length.... i discovered that the mount were not tracking even when i switch sideral tracking in the eqmod app... also the autoguiding isnt good until i put the st4 fable with the usb cable to the mount...yes both of them must be connected sothat the autoguiding become better ....i dont know why is should put both ...i should only put st4 or the usb but they didnt work lonely

So, you have EQMOD setup to use pulse guiding, what is in the connections pop-up window in PHD2 for the mount connection? Is it set to "On Camera" or "HEQ5/6 ASCOM"? You haven't said which mount you have but I'm guessing Skywatcher of some kind because it says HEQ5/6 in the EQMOD setup. 

 

[malc-c]

The confusion I'm having is the mention of ST4 cables but reference EQMOD and pulse guiding.  I've always used USB for the camera connection, a USB EQDIR cable and EQMOD to control the mount, and have PHD2 set to "HEQ5/5 ASCOM"  for mount settings.  With EQMOD set up as per the link above (other than my QHY5 selected as the camera rather than simulator".  I've used an ST80 and now the 9 x 50 Skywatcher finderscope as guidescopes and whilst my guiding graphs are not as perfect as some with modern small pixel cameras, the tracking has always worked and the resulting images have had nice round stars.

[Budgie1]

Me too, if the EQDIR cable is being used then there shouldn't be a requirement for ST4, as long as PHD2 is set to use HEQ5/6 ASCOM in the mount connection setting. If the PHD2 setting is "On Camera" then you can switch off EQMOD and just use the ST4 connection to guide the mount via the USB connection to the camera.

I'm assuming the use of the EQDIR cable and pulse guiding because of the screen shot of the EQMOD window in the OP's 1st post but it's hard to advise further without knowing the mount and setup being used.

[malc-c]

On 24/03/2021 at 23:40, Budgie1 said:

What mount, scope and guide scope are you using and how is the guide scope connected, is it on the finder shoe or on top of the main scope? 

 

20 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

Iam using xwo 120 mms guide camera and ASI guide scope 30mm of 120mm fical length.... i discovered that the mount were not tracking even when i switch sideral tracking in the eqmod app... 

Sorry, but you still haven't answered Martins question regarding the main scope and mount, or confirm the small guide scope is connected via the finder shoe.  Can you also confirm that you are using an EQDIRECT cable between the computer and the mount or is the mount one of the new generation with a direct USB connection.

 

[Wael Hassan]

On 28/03/2021 at 21:31, Budgie1 said:

So, you have EQMOD setup to use pulse guiding, what is in the connections pop-up window in PHD2 for the mount connection? Is it set to "On Camera" or "HEQ5/6 ASCOM"? You haven't said which mount you have but I'm guessing Skywatcher of some kind because it says HEQ5/6 in the EQMOD setup. 

 

Iam using skywatcher eq 35 ....my main scope is Redcat 51

[Wael Hassan]

On 28/03/2021 at 21:53, malc-c said:

The confusion I'm having is the mention of ST4 cables but reference EQMOD and pulse guiding.  I've always used USB for the camera connection, a USB EQDIR cable and EQMOD to control the mount, and have PHD2 set to "HEQ5/5 ASCOM"  for mount settings.  With EQMOD set up as per the link above (other than my QHY5 selected as the camera rather than simulator".  I've used an ST80 and now the 9 x 50 Skywatcher finderscope as guidescopes and whilst my guiding graphs are not as perfect as some with modern small pixel cameras, the tracking has always worked and the resulting images have had nice round stars.

Yes this is the strange thing in my connection thats why iam asking why phd not work until i connect both st4 cable plus the usb cable between mount and pc....i used profile for st4 cable and put the mount " on camera" but phd didnt work...i make another profile and put "Skywatcher heq5" on the mount then connect the usb cable but phd didnt work also....it worked only when i put the st4 cable beside the usb cable.

[Adam1234]

In your screenshot of eqmod it doesn't look like your mount is tracking

[malc-c]

15 hours ago, Wael Hassan said:

Iam using skywatcher eq 35 ....my main scope is Redcat 51

Thanks for letting us know which mount you are using.  There is no EQ35, so I'm presuming its an EQM-35 Pro.

The confusion with the HEQ5/6 reference in the screen captures above may be down to how EQMOD works.  It reads the RA/DEC values direct from the motor control board, but then may just display HEQ5/6 as originally these were the two mounts that EQMOD was written for.  It's worth registering with the EQMOD user group to confirm (I can't test as I don't have an EQM-35 Pro, I have an HEQ5).  If for any reason this isn't the case then there is an option to set the values from the prerequisites page for each mount into EQMOD as a custom setting http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/prerequisites.html 

ST4 guiding was the original protocol.  From a quick google it seems that a guide camera is connected to the PC via USB, and an ST4 cable is connected between the camera and the mount. There is no other connections between the mount and PC.  PHD (and later PHD2) is set to "on camera" for the mount settings.   In this set up, the drift of the star is detected  by the camera, it sends the drift to PHD2 via the USB cable from the camera to the PC.  PHD2 then works out the correction and sends the correction back to the camera via the USB cable.  The correction is then fed through from the camera to the mount via the ST4 cable.   

A better way is to remove the ST4 cable, connect the mount via an EQDIR cable and use ASCOM drivers to control the mount.  In this setup you change the "on camera" mount setting to ASCOM.  Now PHD2 does all the work.  It monitors the drift, calculates the correction and sends it direct to the mount.  If you have PHD2 set to "on camera" and the mount set to ASCOM then guiding won't work unless the ST4 cable is connected between the camera and the mount, but then you may be confusing things as PHD may well also try and send guiding commands via EQMOD.  

Personally I think you need to research setting up the EQM-35 with EQMOD and confirm that it moves the mount when the slew instruction is sent.  Then when that's confirmed connect the camera via USB to the PC, and set up PHD2 for ASCOM mount control.  Then on the next clear night, pick a star, and try guiding having run a calibration session and see how you get on

[Wael Hassan]

18 minutes ago, malc-c said:

 If for any reason this isn't the case then there is an option to set the values from the prerequisites page for each mount into EQMOD as a custom setting http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/prerequisites.html 

Thanks alot for your followup and great help.... i browse this link and find these values.... Where i should put these values and how could i use them please? 

 

[malc-c]

If you run the tool box (C:\Program Files (x86)\EQMOD and run EQMOD_Toolbox.exe) and then under the set up select "driver setup" a configuration window appears

Top right is a box - Mount options - Change it from auto to custom by clicking on the dropdown list arrow. - Then click the spanner

Leave the entry in the RA and DEC dropdown boxes blank.  For both axis In the total steps enter 4608000.  In the worm steps enter 25600 - leave tracking offset as 0  

Click OK and Ok 

[Wael Hassan]

On 01/04/2021 at 23:39, malc-c said:

If you run the tool box (C:\Program Files (x86)\EQMOD and run EQMOD_Toolbox.exe) and then under the set up select "driver setup" a configuration window appears

Top right is a box - Mount options - Change it from auto to custom by clicking on the dropdown list arrow. - Then click the spanner

Leave the entry in the RA and DEC dropdown boxes blank.  For both axis In the total steps enter 4608000.  In the worm steps enter 25600 - leave tracking offset as 0  

Click OK and Ok 

Thanks alot.... i did all the stwps as you said but i got very noisy guiding too.... i started all over again to find where the problem is and here is my findings:

1- i disconnect st4 cable and rely only on the usb , when i dud that i start to see the RA blue curve in the guiding.

2- There were significant changes in the peaks of RA curve so i checked on the eqmod and ascom setup...i disconnect the ascom toolbox and reconnect the mount from the profile of phd then i discovered that the mount was not tracking in the eqmod interface so i clicked on sideral tracking.

3- Things become so better and the RA and Dec curves have peak between +6 -6 on PHD guiding ...i tried to take image for 6 minutes exposure it gives me nice round stars but its problem is that the stars are doubled...they have no trails but they are two stars near each other by very small distant....thats my problem now with guiding .

[teoria_del_big_bang]

12 minutes ago, Wael Hassan said:

problem is that the stars are doubled...they have no trails but they are two stars near each other by very small distant....thats my problem now with guiding .

Are you sure you are waiting until PHD had finished calibration before imaging ?

I assume you are starting the mount tracking first, then starting PHD2 guiding, depending on the setup PHD2 may then start calibrating by deliberately moving the mount and detecting how many pixels the target star (s) move, you will see a message in lower left say something like "nudging South". When finished the box at bottom right that says "Cal" will change from red to green.
Only after this should you start to image.
Calibration can take a minute or two.

You should then start to take a series of images and all the time keep the mount tracking and PHD2 guiding.
So really the issue of 2 stars should only happen on 1st image if that is the cause then others should be fine.

Maybe post one of your images in your next post may give us a clue.

Steve

  

[malc-c]

I can't see how you can get two stars of every star in one image (like a double exposure) as you would get trailing between the two stars suggesting the mount isn't tracking.  

Try this....

• Power up the mount and the PC
• Launch your planetarium software and connect to the mount via EQMOD (don't use the toolbox - that is for setting up and testing)
• Select a target and slew the scope to target
• Check that EQMOD says tracking - if not then enable sidereal tracking
• Open PHD2 - Select  the option to connect to the mount and camera (connect all)
• Click the cycling button so a star field is displayed.
• Click on the brain icon - there is an option to force calibration under the guiding tab - this clears any existing calibration settings - save and exit
• Choos a star - or use the option to have PHD2 chose its own star.
• Click the guide option and PHD2 should do a calibration run.  Hopefully it will run through without complaining
• When complete the cross wires should go green and the mount should start guiding.
• Watch the graph, after a few minutes it should settle down and whilst the traces may not be flat they should stay within a range and follow the zero line rather then trend up or down by a large amount.
• Then open your imaging application - it should detect what's running and connect to your imaging camera.
• Take a test exposure, which for me using a DSLR is typically 120s  which will show up any issue and confirm the framing.

 

Posting up information on your planetarium software, and the images you are getting will help further diagnosis.