New setup for planets

[Leatherfoot]

Hi folks,

Looking to get my first telescope (well first since I had a crappy one as a kid). I'm not looking to do astrophotography. My son has a setup with a iOptron Skytracker Pro and a Cannon 300mm zoom. So just planets and manual viewing. Not looking to for entry level but not looking to bust the wallet either. Something mid range. Will likely need a full setup since if we're out viewing, my son will have his setup in use. I live in Northern Ontario and when I get out of town I have access to some nice dark skies if that helps.

Any tips or recommendations appreciated!

[Tiny Clanger]

Welcome !

So many options are available , to narrow it down and get the best advice, putting a hard number on where exactly your wallet bursting point is would be a good idea !

Heather

[vlaiv]

For comfortable viewing - driven mount helps.

You don't have to nudge scope all the time.

Simple tracking motor on EQ mount will be sufficient.

I'd say that 6" is starting to be serious planetary scope. SCT, MCT, Slow newtonian with small secondary obstruction or Classical cassegrain are all very nice options in 6" or above range.

If you go with EQ mount - then I'd say - skip newtonian although it is probably best bang for buck scope. It is awkward to use on EQ mount as eyepiece and finder scope get into strange positions when mount tracks - you need to rotate OTA in its rings to get some level of comfort.

If newtonian telescope appeals to you - look into EQ platform + dobsonian mounted scope. 6" or 8". Even 10" if you have funds, storage and way to move it around. This is also very good all around performer.

SCT and MCT will need more cool down because of more glass and closed tube design. CC is alternative. All of these sit nicely on EQ type mount.

SCT will be closest to all around scope but CC and MCT will be very good dedicated planetary telescope. MCT is hard to find in 8" or larger version.

You really have a lot of options - which means that you can be very specific with your requirements. Budget, size, portability, etc ....

That will help narrow things down.

[Leatherfoot]

Budget wise maybe $600 range?  Not sure if that's 'mid-range' though.

Thanks Vlsiv. Just learning terminology but some of that made sense LOL.  Not overly concerned about portability as most times it will be a setup during summer camping. Also have a large vehicle for other times. That being said, smaller is easier if it doesn't sacrifice too much quality. What do you mean by 'cool down'?

[vlaiv]

$600 could be considered as entry to the mid-range.

Planetary resolution depends on aperture size. It also depends on what is called atmospheric seeing - how calm or turbulent atmosphere is. This changes considerably based on many factors and can range from poor (very often) to exceptional (maybe few nights a year).

This in principle means that you want larger scope but you won't be able to utilize it to full potential all the time. However, on nights where atmosphere is calm enough - you'll appreciate the fact that you've chosen larger scope.

Cool down means letting telescope equalize its temperature with temperature of the air. This is very important in climate where conditions are very different than room temperature. For example - in the north where it is often colder outside than indoors - telescope needs to cool down properly once it has been taken out of the storage (even if storage is not heated - it is often a bit warmer than outside air - especially at night). Same holds for hot climate - where telescope needs to warm up if it is kept inside with air conditioning. Any temperature difference will cause optics to stretch as it cools down / warms up and it will cause image quality issues. Air inside telescope will also have convection currents (small scale turbulence like in atmosphere) - that also impacts image quality.

Depending on the size of telescope, design and temperature difference - you need between 10-15mins and up to couple of hours from setup time until you can enjoy high power views without thermal issues (few hours is for large telescopes - and sometimes it can be whole night that telescope does not thermally stabilize if it is large enough and temperature changes rapidly).

Given your budget, here are some recommendations:

8" F/6 dobsonian. This is really universal instrument that will provide you with excellent planetary views. You'll have enough of a budget to get additional eyepieces and barlow to provide you with high power views. Issue with this option is that it will not track - or rather tracking is manual. Some people don't mind this and some are bothered by this. Fact is - tracked telescope will be more relaxing for observing and will let you concentrate better on object, but it is not necessary for observation.

6" F/8 dobsonian. Same as above with a bit less aperture. There will be enough budget left to maybe find good EQ platform. There will certainly be enough budget for DIY EQ platform. This solves tracking issue

With above kind of budget - SCTs are really not an option any more. 5" SCT starts at around $700 - NexStar 5SE for example. 6" version is $800. These are goto telescopes meaning they both find objects for you and track them across the sky. Goto is not really necessary for planets - but it is handy addition.

You can find 5" Maksutov telescope on EQ mount in your budget. You'll need to add a tracking motor (still within a budget).

Problem at the moment is that most telescopes are out of stock and in limited supply.

In fact - I'm looking at the prices now - and it looks like there has been quite a bit increase in prices recently. I'm not sure that you could get 5" Maksutov and EQ mound with motor for $600?

 

[Tiny Clanger]

42 minutes ago, Leatherfoot said:

Budget wise maybe $600 range?  Not sure if that's 'mid-range' though.

Thanks Vlsiv. Just learning terminology but some of that made sense LOL.  Not overly concerned about portability as most times it will be a setup during summer camping. Also have a large vehicle for other times. That being said, smaller is easier if it doesn't sacrifice too much quality. What do you mean by 'cool down'?

$600 Canadian ? so around  GBP 350 , I've no idea if prices over there  are similar to those in the UK, but that helps reduce the possibilities.

Simply put , and as jargon free as possible , you have choices between reflector telescopes (newtonians ) , an open tube with a mirror at the bottom, refractor telescopes ( lenses in a tube) and maksutov 'scopes ( which have a closed tube with a mirror and a cunning way of doing origami on the light path to make a compact telescope) .

The maksutovs (often shortened to maks) , because the tube is closed and there is a substantial glass plate on the front, take a while to cool down., because moving air currents inside the tube as it adjusts from indoor to outdoor temperature spoil the view .

My 127 mak needs about 30 minutes . Not too much of a problem if you are car camping I suspect. The other types of 'scope have shorter cool down times, and smaller 'scopes cool faster than bigger ones.

Lots of information out there on 'scope types , for instance this https://www.astroshop.eu/advice/telescope/telescope-knowledge/telescope-different-types/c,8685

will give you an idea of the basics.

Each 'scope type has advantages and drawbacks, and then there's the eq mount vs alt az mount , unguided vs guided debate. 

Heather

 

 

[vlaiv]

Yep, good point, is that USD600 or CAD600?

[Leatherfoot]

Oh sorry was thinking 600US... just so used to using USD when 'large item' shopping as Canadian options are quite limited in comparison. I may need to up it little to ensure I'm not sacrificing too much. Thanks to both of you for the information. This gives me a good sense of what to look for for sure. I can see how tracking would be a good addition too, especially if you're all zoomed in on something and want to share the experience with friends.

Cool down is not something I would have thought of and appreciate the information. Not as big of an issue on a camping trip where there is a bit  more equilibrium but it can get a tad chilly up here and something with a quicker cooldown would lengthen the 'season'.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Leatherfoot

[Tiny Clanger]

OK, cool down not really a worry, and you probably want tracking/go to, and USD 600 ...

I've zero experience of goto/tracking mounts , so others may be more helpful with specific suggestions, but I do think a small mak would suit you, they have long focal length so high magnification which would be good for your wish to view planets and the Moon , here's an example of the sort of bundle of mount and 'scope which would be inside your budget  :

https://www.skywatcherusa.com/collections/skymax-starlux-maksutov-reflectors/products/skymax-102-az-gti

 

[scotty38]

And maybe a step or two up depending on exchange rate and busting the wallet a bit more, as an example something like this could give you the 6" Vlaiv was talking about.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/slt-series/celestron-nexstar-6-slt.html

Finding one is the hard bit but that gives you more time to add to the coffers....

[Leatherfoot]

What about a completely different direction with a Dob like the AD10?  I know it's a bit bulky but looks easy to set up use and for light intake it seems good. Thoughts on that direction as an option? I'm ok with learning the sky and exploring things as I don't think these things have tracking options.

[Tiny Clanger]

24 minutes ago, Leatherfoot said:

What about a completely different direction with a Dob like the AD10?  I know it's a bit bulky but looks easy to set up use and for light intake it seems good. Thoughts on that direction as an option? I'm ok with learning the sky and exploring things as I don't think these things have tracking options.

Whoa ! Total change of track 🙂  !

I'd discounted a dob because you liked the go to/ guided idea, but if you can deal with the size and weight and completely human operated , learn the skies thing, a dob will give you more bang for your buck than anything else . I have a heritage 150 table top dob, and it is great.  I prefer my 127 mak for use observing bright  stuff like the Moon and planets, but for deep sky viewing I take the dob out.

[Leatherfoot]

Yeah lol. I'm ok with manual. Reading up on the dob and for planets and some deep space stuff it seems good or am I mistaken. Not looking for photos, just personal viewing and I have super dark skies close by. It's seems a bit clunky but simple to put together and setup. I noticed that some laser aligning is needed. Is that difficult and how often does it need doing (is it like a tuning a piano lol)?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm pretty new to this level of stargazing. My recent experience with it is frequently looking up and realizing how totally insignificant I am...   

[dweller25]

Hello @Leatherfoot and welcome to SGL.

I think a Dobsonian is a great scope for visual planetary - they are very capable and offer the best value for money. Some come with a fan in the back for rapid cooldown - or one can easily be added.

I would suggest an 8” as it will give enough resolution for you to really see good planetary details - but NOT like the photos you see.

Dobs do need collimating occasionally but it’s easy once you have practised it - you don’t need a laser but it does make it easier.

You will have to push the scope to follow the planets but if you buy a wide angle eyepiece you will have to push less 👍

Venus will show cloud markings and a phase at low powers - around x100

Mars at around x240 will show it’s polar ice caps, dark surface details, dew/mist on it’s early morning limb and the occasional dust storm.

Jupiter at x190 will show it’s major bands and different colour markings and features associated with them, along with the Great Red Spot. It’s largest four Moons will show as tiny disks which will cast a shadow on the planets surface as they cross over it - an eclipse on Jupiter.

Saturn at x190 will show it’s rings, polar and equatorial bands and the occasional storm. Your first word when you see Saturn may be “Wow” 😁

Uranus and Neptune at x240 will appear as very small but nicely coloured disks.

The Moon at x80 upwards will probably amaze you with the detail it shows.

Brighter deep sky objects - galaxies, globular clusters and Nebula will also be visible as small smudges in a 8” scope, along with many double/multiple star systems.

So, yes, an 8” Dob may be the way to go 🙂

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by dweller25

[Tiny Clanger]

I agree with everything dweller25 said, but do be aware of the size and weight of a dob, realistically a big 'scope which is too much of an inconvenience to take outside , pack or transport easily is going to get less use than a smaller one which is convenient to set up.

After Christmas FLO ( this site's sponsor) had a few returned dobsonian telescopes for sale at a discount , reason for return ? 'Buyer didn't realise how big it was' ...

Heather