Phd2 + ST4 Mount not moving

[Lupris]

Hello, I'm new to astrophotography.

Yesterday evening I set up my equipment and aligned it with Sharpcap Polar, all good deviation of RA DEC is under 10 arc sec.

I would like to control my mount with the ST4 cable using a guide camera.

But even the manual attempt in Phd2 did not work, the mount simply did not respond.

I can control the mount with the hand controller without any problems. I'll add a few pictures of my setup in Phd2.

 

Equipment:

HEQ5 Pro Synscan Goto, ZWO Asi 120mm Mini Guide Camera, APM 60mm Guide Scope.

 

Im totally fine, by just using the hand controller for quick slewing, but if i connect everything in n.i.n.a, search for a target like M33 und press slew, nothing happens.

 

I hope someone has a solution.

 

 

greets Lupris

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Lupris

[Merlin66]

Lupris,

On your screen shots I don't see you connecting to the mount?

If your ST4 cable is connected to the ST-4 port on the mount, Camera connected and mount "on camera" connected, you should be able to move a field star by pressing the PHD manual direction buttons and by choosing a suitable star start the calibration process.

 

[Lupris]

7 minutes ago, Merlin66 said:

On your screen shots I don't see you connecting to the mount?

 

Hi Merlin,

you mean the Aux Mount? I thought on camera would be enough, if i want to move the mount via phd2.

I tried to use the manual direction buttons under the Tools menu but nothing happened.

Should my mount move when i press "start guiding"? Because its not doing it.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Lupris

[Merlin66]

Lupris,

“On camera” should work OK. (The screen showed the camer connected but not the Mount “On camera”)

Once both these are connected, the next step is to use a suitable star to do the calibration routine.

It’s only after successful calibration that PHD will be able to guide.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Merlin66

[Lupris]

Oh, i forgot to connect the mount this time. Normally i do.

1. I connect camera(Zwo asi camera) and mount (on-camera)

2.I press "begin looping"

3.I select a star

4.I press "beginn guiding"

Then it tells me how off my RA and DEC is, but the mount is not moving at all. The star is just moving out of the screen like normally

Edited August 21, 2020 by Lupris

[Merlin66]

OK,

You need to carry out a calibration to give PHD the necessary data to apply appropriate guide signals to the mount.

[kens]

Please find the relevant PHD2 Guide Log. It is usually under Documents\PHD2 and has the date and time your guiding session started.

Zip the file and attach it for analysis.

When you say the star moves out of the screen "like normal" - that is not normal behaviour if the mount is tracking properly and your PA is not hugely off.

Also, can you describe roughly where the scope was pointing when you started guiding e.g. was it in the same place where you did your Sharpcap polar alignment?

2 hours ago, Lupris said:

Im totally fine, by just using the hand controller for quick slewing, but if i connect everything in n.i.n.a, search for a target like M33 und press slew, nothing happens.

For this to work you need a USB connection from computer to mount. An ST4 cable is not sufficient for controlling where the mount is pointing. PHD2 and ST4 will only make tiny corrections to the mount to account for slow drift of the mount.

[Lupris]

The RA and DEC (red and blue) lines are showing in the graph, but the mount is not moving.

I tried pointing the Scope around Polaris and then somewhere East, both did not work

I attached the phd2 files

 

I bought a cable to connect my mount with my pc, do i still need the st4 cable then?

 

phd2 files.rar

[michael8554]

You can't get a meaningfull Calibration "near Polaris".

Best position for Calibration is pointing near south and at Dec 0 (that's not the horizon)

The calibration moves  should be at 90 degrees to each other - the RA Cal moves the scope "horizontally", the Dec Cal moves the scope "vertically".

Instead they are superimposed on each other, and RA and Dec commands in Guiding are mirroring each other.

That could be due to a faulty ST4 cable - they are incredibly unreliable for some reason.

Or the NINA setup, I'm not familiar with that, hopefully Kens will decipher the Debug Log 🙂

Most of the Calibrations end before Dec Cal starts - is that PHD2 stopping it, or you ?

Try again at Dec 0 and post your Logs - zip not rar, I had to download an extractor for rar.

Michael

 

5 hours ago, Lupris said:

 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

On 21/08/2020 at 03:00, Merlin66 said:

Lupris,

On your screen shots I don't see you connecting to the mount?

If your ST4 cable is connected to the ST-4 port on the mount, Camera connected and mount "on camera" connected, you should be able to move a field star by pressing the PHD manual direction buttons and by choosing a suitable star start the calibration process.

 

I don't have much experience using st-4 and PHD2, I have always had a direct connection from computer to mount. But I thought the connect button was greyed out when selecting "On Camera" as there was actually no connection to mount.

I could be wrong mind not something I have tried.

Steve

 

EDIT - Ignore this I just tried it and yes using On Camera you can connect with PHD2.

Although I suspect will always go green if you have already connected to the camera successfully as it is actually not connecting with anything more than the camera so if camera connects it looks like the mount will also connect..

The connect button is just greyed out (disabled) until you first connect the camera successfully.

Edited August 22, 2020 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Lupris]

And the more reliable way to move my mount via phd2 is, to connect the mount with my laptop with a EQDir cable?

 

[Lupris]

7 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

But I thought the connect button was greyed out when selecting "On Camera" as there was actually no connection to mount.

if you refer to the screenshots, i just forgot to connect the mount using the "on camera"

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Silly question maybe but before starting guiding have you slewed the mount with the handset to a star and started the mount in sidereal tracking ?

The mount must be in sidereal rate before starting guiding in PHD2 (I think anyway).

Steve

[Lupris]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Silly question maybe but before starting guiding have you slewed the mount with the handset to a star and started the mount in sidereal tracking ?

The mount must be in sidereal rate before starting guiding in PHD2 (I think anyway).

 

does it have to be star aligned for that? i just near the star?

[teoria_del_big_bang]

43 minutes ago, Lupris said:

does it have to be star aligned for that? i just near the star?

No, for a test it doesn't have to be star aligned but you need to slew it away from Polaris to a clear bit of sky with visible stars and then start sidereal tracking with the handset.

I am assuming here as you are using the ST-4 cable between guide camera and mount you only have the main camera & guide camera connected to computer and you are controlling mount with the handset.

Steve

Edited August 21, 2020 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Lupris]

Just now, teoria_del_big_bang said:

I am assuming here as you are using the ST-4 cable between guide camera and mount you only have the main camera connected to computer and you are controlling mount with the handset.

Yes. But i bought a EQDir cable, to move the mount with nina and phd2

[teoria_del_big_bang]

So have you taken the handset off and now using the EQDir cable with NINA to control the mount. ?

If so all this should still work but  with EQDir cable you are better off not using the ST-4 cable method.

Steve

[Lupris]

The cable will be delivered by tuesday next week.

And i need clear skies, looks bad so far but lets see, the weather apps are not reliable lately

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Okay so for these tests you still have the handset to control mount and the only USB cables to computer are the main imaging camera and the guide camera and then the ST-4 cable goes between the guide camera and the mount ST-4 sockets.

Are my assumptions correct ?

Steve

Edited August 21, 2020 by teoria_del_big_bang

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Sorry, totally wrote my last post wrongly - I have corrected it now

Edited August 21, 2020 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Lupris]

12 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Okay so for these tests you still have the handset to control mount and the only USB cables to computer are the main imaging camera and the guide camera and then the ST-4 cable goes between the guide camera and the mount ST-4 sockets.

Are my assumptions correct ?

yes, thats correct.

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Ok good I understand now. So before you took the steps you mentioned earlier:

 

16 hours ago, Lupris said:

1. I connect camera(Zwo asi camera) and mount (on-camera)

2.I press "begin looping"

3.I select a star

4.I press "beginn guiding"

Then it tells me how off my RA and DEC is, but the mount is not moving at all. The star is just moving out of the screen like normally

Did you move the mount to another bit of sky other than Polaris, wait for mount to stop and then start sidereal tracking using the handset ?

Steve 

[Lupris]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Did you move the mount to another bit of sky other than Polaris, wait for mount to stop and then start sidereal tracking using the handset ?

Ín the east, so yes, i move the mount away from polaris. do i have to control the handset myself for sidereal tracking or is that a utility option in the handset?

[teoria_del_big_bang]

No just start it in sidereal tracking. Not sure how as I never used the handset on my HEQ5. 

But I would think that you would need to be in sidereal tracking mode on the mount before starting guiding in PHD2.

In theory you polar align your mount (which is somewhere close to Polaris - but not exactly thats why Polaris is always just off centre of the polar scope when correct) which means once the scope is on your target you set the mount off in sidereal tracking and the Ra axis moves very slowly (360 degrees in 24 hours). So if all was perfect and the gearing on the mount was perfect the mount would track your target star (or DSO)  perfectly as the mount is just moving in same rotation as the earth which is why the stars appear to be moving in the first place.

BUT, things are never perfect so we use HD2 and the guidescope and camera to detect the errors by seeing when a start it is tracking moves to some different pixels on the guide camera and that hen sends guide pulses back to the mount via the ST-4 cable which tells the mount to move a little extra on top of the tracking movement of Ra to counteract this error.

So I am pretty sure you will need to be tracking with the mount BEFORE you go into PHD and select your star and so on. 

So PHD2 only adds small adjustments onto what the mount is already doing, the mount does 99% of the tracking and PHD just adds that last 1 % to keep it spot on target.

I too am pretty new to all this so no expert but thats how I believe it works.

Steve

[teoria_del_big_bang]

When you get your EQDir cable you can ditch the ST-4 cable and control guiding better as it will send theguide pulses via that cable directly to the mount.

It may help to read this:

EQASCOM_Guiding

Most of it relates to guiding via EQASCOM  which is the better method and what most people use but needs the new cable you have ordered. There is a small section early on that talks about ST-4 guiding as well though.

Steve