Works without drivers, doesn't work with them? Hunh?

[BrendanC]

Bit crazy, this one.

I used to have a Skywatcher AZ Goto mount, which I controlled from my PC using the Windows Synscan app, via the handset. Worked like a dream.

I then got a second-hand NEQ6 mount. I couldn't get the app to work with it, but EQMOD did work, so I thought that was that. I still really liked using the app though - it just suited me.

I've recently had to get a new laptop, so it's all a fresh new build. And, out of curiosity, I wondered whether the app would work with it.

Installed it, plugged in the cable (one of these: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-mount-accessories/lynx-astro-ftdi-eqdir-usb-adapter-for-sky-watcher-eq6-or-neq6-syntrek-pro-mounts.html) - and it worked! And I was glad.

So, over to APT to get that working with it, but there was no Skywatcher option in the scope menu. Of course, that was because there were no drivers... and yet the app worked? Hmmm.

So, I installed the Skywatcher mobile drivers, which are the ones that the app  uses - and the app no longer connected to the mount!

I uninstalled them - and it still didn't connect.

I restarted the laptop - and it connected.

Repeat a few times just to establish that, against all logic, the Sysncan app connects to the mount when the drivers are UNINSTALLED, but NOT when they're installed! 

So, questions are:

* If I uninstall the drivers and can connect, then how would I get software like APT to work with the mount?

* If I install the drivers, can anyone suggest a reason why it then doesn't connect?

I know that I could continue with EQMOD but I have some other issues and I'm trying to identify whether they're to do with optics or alignment, so using the app would come in very handy as an alternative way to control the mount from the laptop.

Thanks, Brendan

[stash_old]

1. You can either - an ASCOM driver is the only bit of software that APT will use for the NEQ6 - in which case you have to use/install EQMOD(ASCOM) then restart your Laptop. Then start APT press and hold SHIFT key  + press CONNECT(only needed first time) - then choose EQMOD followed by properties when the EQMOD/ASCOM little Window appears. In the properties you have to input the correct COM port. Then you can load your Planetarium program and choose the same option (e.g. EQMOD) but dont select Properties just click OK.

   OR (and do not mix drivers and APP)

start the Synscan App and connect to the mount via the Synscan App connect method THEN start APT as above but select the Synscan Mobile Ascom Driver - select the properties and select the IP address where the Synscan App is running (normally 127.0.0.1 if on the same PC). Then start your Planetarium software and select the Ascom Synscan Mobile driver BUT dont select the properties.  If you use AUTO search you will be presented with any IP addresses the APP finds which you have to select the correct one - hence I used to use manual and input the correct IP address - As I say 127.0.0.1 works.

 

The normal reasons for either of the above not  working is software not installed correctly including C++ dists, you choose the wrong COM port or IP address. Sometimes Virus software and or Firewalls can block IP type work (normally ok if you use 127.0.0.1).

 

As you dont provide any screen prints (e.g. Version numbers of software ,Device Manager,Ascom Driver Window with properties input etc) it is not really possible to help further in detail

59 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

So, over to APT to get that working with it, but there was no Skywatcher option in the scope menu. Of course, that was because there were no drivers... and yet the app worked? Hmmm.

This is normal APT can only use ASCOM (last time I looked) - so no ASCOM driver (Synscan Mobile Ascom Driver) APT will not work with Synscan APP. You cannot for example try to use the EQMOD ascom driver with Synscan App loaded and connected to the mount. The reverse is also true!

See attached - ok I am using Synscan App emulator as PC is in the house not in the Obsys. If the emulator route works then all you have to do is connect to the mount via Synscan App using the correct Com or Wifi port first the rest is the same process.

Note I am not getting into the using the Handset as well as discussion - let someone else do that!  BUT readme notes say :-

Overview

The SynScanMobile Telescope ASCOM driver is an alternative to the SkyWatcher Telescope ASCOM driver for controlling Sky-Watcher telescope mounts. SynScanMobile ASCOM driver requires the SynScan App, whereas SkyWatcher ASCOM driver requires the SynScan hand controller.

During use, the SynScanMobile ASCOM driver controls the SynScan app. The SynScan app, in turn, controls the Sky-Watcher telescope mount.

How to setup connection to mount

Step 1. Connect SynScan App to mount

• Open the SynScan app on your smartphone.
• Use SynScan app to connect to the mount. See SynScan App's help for more details.
• You need to perform telesope alignment with the SynScan App before the mount can perform accurate go-to.
• If SynScan App is running on iOS, you should make sure the app is running in the foreground with the screen unlocked.

Step 2. Connect ASCOM driver to SynScan App.

• Run program that uses ASCOM (such as Cartes du Ciel or TheSky) on the PC. The PC should be in the same network as the device running SynScan App. For example, if the phone running SynScan App has joined a SynScan Wi-Fi adapter's network, then the PC should also join that network.
• If there is problem with searching device, you can specify the IP of the device running SynScan App.

ASCOM driver parameters

• Read timeout: How long to wait for response from SynScan App before reporting error
• Max retry count: How many times to wait for response from SynScan App before reporting error
• Shorter timeout and fewer retries lead to more communication errors, but longer timeout and more retries can make some program less responsive.

 

 

[BrendanC]

Thanks, I really, really appreciate the time and thought you must have put into this.

However, I fall at the first post I'm afraid!

When you say 'start the Synscan App and connect to the mount via the Synscan App connect method' - I can only do that with the drivers UNinstalled, which means there are then no drivers to select in APT.

If I install the drivers, without fail, the app simply will not connect. The drivers appear in the scope chooser, as per your screenshots above, but that doesn't connect either. I've checked everything, COM ports etc.

That's the dilemma here! It's just plain weird.

Given that this is a new laptop, I can only assume there's something amiss with the drivers and/or my mount. It still beats me though that the app works WITHOUT drivers! I mean, how on earth is that even possible? That's my real query here, I guess.

Aaaaanyway, it was just a query about whether there's anything I could do about this. Looks like there isn't, unless I dig around and see whether anything's being blocked but I doubt it.

Thanks again.

Edited July 29, 2020 by BrendanC

[stash_old]

And any help can only really be given with Screen prints as stated before of your step by step workflow etc. 

Ascom drivers are only used by clients - e.g. APT ,CDC etc so loading Synscan App PRO (and it has to be PRO version) does not depend on Ascom at all and wont cause issues no matter what state Ascom is in.

You have installed ASCOM haven't you? - thats not the sysscan ascom driver but the base Ascom software - here on the web page right hand side.    https://ascom-standards.org/Downloads/Index.htm    If you have there is a Diagnostic  program you can run from the Ascom menu which will check your installation and show any errors - maybe you should run that and see if it gives any errors .

The only other thing to suggest ,besides checking event viewer  , is to check Windows permissions !

The older version of Ascom installer did have some problems with not installing C++ Dist from Microsoft but I beleive this is not the case today.                 

[BrendanC]

Thanks, I'll do that. I'll also try and get myself in gear and show some screenshots, after I've played around a bit more.

[BrendanC]

Right. So. Here we go....

I've drawn a blank with the direct connection, so I tried the mount -> handset -> Prolific cable -> laptop approach again.

This thread is quite interesting: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/352831-solved-synscan-usb-dongle-not-connecting-to-synscanpro/

It implies it's either drivers, or USB3. My new laptop doesn't have any USB2 sockets (and my previous laptop and netbook both did have them but didn't work either), so I explored the drivers angle.

Downloaded the latest Prolific drivers, set the handset to PC Direct - and it worked! Connected to the app straight away. Go into APT, I can select the Synscan App driver, all good. I could scarcely believe it after all this.

So I tried it a few times to make sure, exited the app, fired it up again, all good. Then I unplugged the cable and plugged it back in as a test... and it didn't work. Unable to connect again. 

I tried with another port and got the same result - again, just once. I've since not been able to get this to work at all with any ports.

Looking at this more broadly it seems Prolific and Windows 10 don't get on well - see https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/prolific-usb-to-serial-comm-port-windows-10/0a4f8e48-7135-4434-9d10-349c9ce87fcf?auth=1 which also links to http://wp.brodzinski.net/hardware/fake-pl2303-how-to-install/ - which I've also tried with no success.

So this is the darnedest thing. It has worked, twice, once for two ports, so it does actually work. But I've tried every combination I can think of:

• Different ports
• Different order of switching things on
• Different order of plugging things in
• Different drivers
• Different values for resent tries and read timeouts
• Alternative, non-Prolific USB-serial converter (which probably wouldn't work anyway but tried it nonetheless)
• Handset PC Direct mode enabled and disabled
• Running Synscan app as Administrator
• Rebooting

... and none of them work.

@stash_old - in case you're interested, here are the screenshots of what's happening:

The COM ports are definitely being read correctly - as in, plug the cable into one USB socket and it says COM5, the next one, says COM6, etc, all repeatable, all agrees with what I see in Device Manager.

So I'm wondering whether there's just something not right with either the Synscan driver, the Prolific driver, or both.

I'm probably going to tie this one off now. It was just out of curiosity to see whether a new laptop would mean I could use the app, but it appears not. I just like things to work the way they should!

Edited July 30, 2020 by BrendanC

[stash_old]

The Prolific chip set are known to be Crap - tech term  - when used with Windows.

You originally said you bought one of these Lynx Astro FTDI EQDIR USB which is NOT prolific chip. its a FTDI chip which ,if genuine, is know to have very very few problems with Windows 10 (or Linux or Mac).

Put the Prolific chipped cable in the correct place - The Bin - harsh but just look at the hard facts - these chips cause problems (especially the older ones!). The Synscan software and Ascom are being used by lots of people happily on Windows 10. The odds are in favour of the software being OK. 

Thats why FLO/Lynx  stopped selling Prolific based USB cables.

37 minutes ago, BrendanC said:

Alternative, non-Prolific USB-serial converter (which probably wouldn't work anyway but tried it nonetheless)

Rebooting is useless when you have hardware problems - best always to power off ,count to 30 and switch back on without the new cable (non Prolific) being inserted until Windows has loaded and got its head togetner.

Anyway Good luck.

Clear Skies !

 

[BrendanC]

Thanks.

I have both, the Lynx and the Prolific cables, which is why I've been talking about direct connection (via Lynx) and handset connection (via Prolific).

I can't get either to work with the app. It was really just to see if I could. I refuse to believe tech will not bow down before me and accept me as its master.

Anyway, as you say, time to move on, forget Prolific, live in the now, etc.

Thanks for your help (all over again!)

Cheers, Brendan