Advice regarding upgrading a visual setup to an imaging rig

[AweSIM]

Hi,

I have a SkyWatcher PDS200 OTA and an NEQ6 Pro mount to go along with it. I am based in Pakistan where only a few sites (including TS, www.telekop-express.de) will ship to. Hence, I need to choose products from the said website only.

I'm looking forward to upgrading my visual observation setup to an imaging rig. I have a NIKON D90 DSLR camera as well. I believe I will need to acquire the following items to accomplish this:

1. Field flattener
2. LPS filter
3. Camera adapter ring
4. A suitable guidescope
5. A suitable guide camera
6. A suitable portable power tank to power my NEQ6 pro in the field

Now the questions:

#1. Do I REALLY need a field flattener? I have noticed coma whilst observing visually, though I'm not sure if it's actually coma or bad collimation. If a field flattener is recommended for astro-photography, can someone suggest or recommend a suitable product that I can order from www.teleskop-express.de?

#2. I live in the city where light pollution is a huge problem. I understand that an LPS is not a magic bullet but I've read that it can make a big difference too. On the TS site, I noticed there were clip-in LPS filters for CANNON, but I could find none for NIKON. In that case, can someone recommend a suitable LPS filter that I can order from www.teleskop-express.de? Also, how would I add the filter between my scope and camera? Will I need another adapter or something? I shortlisted the following filters.
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9261_Hutech-IDAS-LPS-V4---Light-Pollution-Suppression-Filter-for-Astrophotography--52-mm.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7072_Hutech-IDAS-P2-Light-Pollution-Suspression-Filter---mounted-in-2--Cell.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4112_New-Hutech-2--nebula-filter-LPS-V4-for-Deep-Sky-photography.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2580_Hutech-IDAS-2--LPS-D1-Light-Pollution-Suppression-Filter-for-Astrophotography.html

#3. When I ordered my kit earlier, I ordered an camera adapter as well, not knowing much about them at the time. It turned out that the adapter (M48 I think) did not fit my camera and scope. Which adapter should I order from www.teleskop-express.de this time? I have shortlisted the following adapters.
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7080_TS-Optics-Optics-1-25--Prime-Focus-Adapter-for-NIKON-DSLR.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p195_TS-Optics-Optics-T2-Adaptor-for-NIKON-Cameras.html

#4 and #5. Can someone suggest a decent guidescope and CCD? I have no idea what aperture would be suitable for use with an 8" OTA. Maybe a 50mm refractor can be used. Any suggestions are welcome. As for the CCD, I am completely clueless. I have a budget of $500 in mind but I can stretch that to $1000 if need be.

#6. I would love to have enough power to last around 5 or 6 hours while powering my NEQ6 pro and CCD. Should I go for a power tank or a standalone battery and charger? I've read on this forum that an NEQ6 Pro can draw up to 4 amps peak so the power tank or battery should be chosen to keep this in mind. Can any NEQ6 Pro owner confirm this? I have lost the original charger that comes along with NEQ6 so I don't know the power rating of the stock adapter. I have shortlisted the following power options.
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3821_Automatic-wall-charger-for-lead-gel-batteries.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3573_12V-lead-gel-battery---40-Ah---rechargeable.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3577_Charger-for-12-V-lead-batteries--3-Amp--max.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p5805_TS-Optics-Powerset---12V-7Ah-battery--charger-and-adapter-in-a-useful-shoulder-bag.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3490_TS-Optics-PowerTank-17Ah---with-LED-Spotlight-and-radio---2x-12V-DC-output.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2521_TS-Optics-7Ah-rechargeable-power-tank-with-integrated-red-white-light.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9075_Celestron-Powertank-Lithium-LiFePO4---12V-3A---only-1-kg-weight.html

If I've missed anything critical in this list, please feel free to expand this list. Also, if anyone of you guys is using a PDS200 and NEQ6 for imaging, I would love to hear about your kit. It would help me make my mind up as well. I would be immensely grateful if you guys could help me finalize a list of items that I should purchase. My constraint is that I have to order from www.teleskop-express.de, which is about the only site I know that ships to Pakistan.

Thank you so much for your help,

Asim Sohail

[kens]

In this forum its hard to split quotes so I've prefixed my responses with "A:" for "Answer" under each of your questions below. Every setup is unique so I've offered what I do and hope it helps you. 

#1. Do I REALLY need a field flattener? I have noticed coma whilst observing visually, though I'm not sure if it's actually coma or bad collimation. If a field flattener is recommended for astro-photography, can someone suggest or recommend a suitable product that I can order from www.teleskop-express.de?

A: More likely you need a coma corrector. But I wouldn't think its your #1 priority unless you are after the larger targets.

#2. I live in the city where light pollution is a huge problem. I understand that an LPS is not a magic bullet but I've read that it can make a big difference too. On the TS site, I noticed there were clip-in LPS filters for CANNON, but I could find none for NIKON. In that case, can someone recommend a suitable LPS filter that I can order from www.teleskop-express.de? Also, how would I add the filter between my scope and camera? Will I need another adapter or something? I shortlisted the following filters.

A: Also not your top priority, in my opinion.You can overcome light pollution with lots of subs and long integration time although a dark site is best.

#3. When I ordered my kit earlier, I ordered an camera adapter as well, not knowing much about them at the time. It turned out that the adapter (M48 I think) did not fit my camera and scope. Which adapter should I order from www.teleskop-express.de this time? I have shortlisted the following adapters.

A: There are two components needed. First is the T2 adapter for your specific DSLR. The you need a way to connect the standard T2 thread to your focuser. One way is with a 1.25" nosepiece or you may be able to get an adapter that threads into your focuser. Depnds on the focuser. The second link is just the T2 adapter, the first link has boththe T2 adapter and nosepiece. If possible, I think its better to go with a threaded connection as it is more stable. But a nosepiece connection makes it easier to orient the camera. Individual choice. 
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7080_TS-Optics-Optics-1-25--Prime-Focus-Adapter-for-NIKON-DSLR.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p195_TS-Optics-Optics-T2-Adaptor-for-NIKON-Cameras.html

#4 and #5. Can someone suggest a decent guidescope and CCD? I have no idea what aperture would be suitable for use with an 8" OTA. Maybe a 50mm refractor can be used. Any suggestions are welcome. As for the CCD, I am completely clueless. I have a budget of $500 in mind but I can stretch that to $1000 if need be.

A: A 50mm refractor should work. In my setup (RC8 + EQ6Pro) I use an ST80 and my camera is a ZWO ASI120MM. Most cameras in that class should be ok e.g. QHY 5 II. I prefer mono over color for guiding. A good autoguiding setup is important.

#6. I would love to have enough power to last around 5 or 6 hours while powering my NEQ6 pro and CCD. Should I go for a power tank or a standalone battery and charger? I've read on this forum that an NEQ6 Pro can draw up to 4 amps peak so the power tank or battery should be chosen to keep this in mind. Can any NEQ6 Pro owner confirm this? I have lost the original charger that comes along with NEQ6 so I don't know the power rating of the stock adapter. I have shortlisted the following power options.
For battery power,  its the overall capacity that matters more than the peak capacity as you wont be running at peak load continuously. Don't forget you'll need to power the guide camera as well. I run off the mains so can't help much here. But I do run everything (mount, guide cam, imaging cam, filter wheel) with a 5A adapter.

If I've missed anything critical in this list, please feel free to expand this list. Also, if anyone of you guys is using a PDS200 and NEQ6 for imaging, I would love to hear about your kit. It would help me make my mind up as well. I would be immensely grateful if you guys could help me finalize a list of items that I should purchase. My constraint is that I have to order from www.teleskop-express.de, which is about the only site I know that ships to Pakistan.

A: What will you be using for autoguiding software? I use PHD2 and connect to the mount and guide cam with a laptop and EQDIR cable. You could use an ST4 cable from camera to mount but you still need something to run the software in the field. And it will need power too.

A: Consider piggybacking your DSLR onto the scope and do some widefield first to build up your skills. As you push the limits you'll see which other components you need most.

A: You will need some post processing software. About 50% of astrophotography is in the post processing. I'm using StarTools but there are many options available

A: Possibly outside your budget but consider a cooled mono CCD/CMOS camera with filters to give you more options with LP.

Hope this helps and good luck! Astrophotography is a complicated and difficult pursuit but very rewarding.

[ecuador]

Answers to some of your questions:

1) Basically you will need the Skywatcher 0.9x coma corrector for targets that are not small compared to your field of view. It will flatten your field and make your scope f/4.5. For some reason I don't see it on TS. Write to them it is a very common item and not too expensive (compare to similar items). Note, however that with the Skywatcher reducer you will need an M48 to Nikon ring to go between that and your camera, and not a T-ring.

2) If you have a lot of light pollution, the expensive IDAS LPS-P2/D1 won't help you much. A CLS will probably be more useful, especially if you astro-modify your camera - the LPS-V4 will probably help even more on emission nebulas, but the CLS helps in the city even for galaxies in my experience. Even more useful for nebulae are narrowband/line filters (Ha, O-III etc) which will cut through light pollution - although the Ha again works well on an astro-modded camera. In fact, astro-modifying your camera should be a priority as it will gain 4x in sensitivity for the red nebulas.

4) A 50mm guide scope should be enough and they are not expensive.

5) If you want it only for guiding, go for something classic, like an ASI120MM. However, it is not very cheap at TS and at just a few euro more you can get the Altair GPCAM2 IMX224 which is actually much better at imaging (planetary and even some limited deep space) and doesn't seem worse at guiding (I went from the QHY5L-IIm which is the same as the ASI120MM to the Altair and I am happy).

[AweSIM]

Thank you for your responses, guys. It was illuminating.

#1. COMA CORRECTOR: As advised, I'll keep the priority of Coma Corrector low and talk to TS to find out if they have the SkyWatcher Coma Corrector or not. If they do, I might just order it if it comes within my total budget.

#2. LPS: Again, as advised, I'll keep the priority of LPS low. I won't be able to mod my NIKON as it is the only camera I have and gifted to me by my dad (who expects that I don't "break" it anytime soon =P). But I will try to prioritize getting a CANNON (second-hand) that I can solely use for astro-photography only. That way, I will be able to try to mod it.

#3. T2 RING: I guess I'll order the 1.25" Prime Focus adapter.

#4. GUIDE SCPPE: Thanks for confirming that a 50mm guide scope should be sufficient. I'll look around on TS and post the links of what I find. With your further input, I should soon be in a position to order one. =)

#5. CCD: Thank you for sharing your suggestions. I'll look into ASI120MM and Altair GPCAM2 IMX224 as advised. @kens, I will look up the rest of the cameras your signature mentions. Hopefully, I should be able to compare them knowing they're being used by serious people. I will post the links of what I shortlist soon for your further input.

#6. POWER: My laptop can easily last for up to 8 hours on a single charge, so I don't think I'll need to have it powered. On the other hand, I **NEED** to have my NEQ6 and CCD powered. So I was looking for suggestions towards a decent power supply. Do you guys have any advice on this? I have the choice between standalone battery/charger and complete power tanks. Personally, I am more biased towards power tanks. But I still need to choose between these items (both cost EUR 200):
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3490_TS-Optics-PowerTank-17Ah---with-LED-Spotlight-and-radio---2x-12V-DC-output.html
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9075_Celestron-Powertank-Lithium-LiFePO4---12V-3A---only-1-kg-weight.html

#7. MISC: Thank you for sharing the software you guys are using. I've just started familiarizing myself with BackyardNIKON for imaging. I used to use IRIS for post processing but didn't get much out of it as it is too complicated without a proper guide which doesn't exist. I'll try Star Tools and report back how it goes. I remember trying out DSS and REGISTAX as well briefly (without any amazing results, but that can be down to the fact that my images weren't many or high quality either).

I will post links of the shortlisted products soon for your further input soon.

Thank you guys for the time you took out in answering and guiding me. Yes, astrophotography is a rewarding hobby. =)

Asim

[ronin]

1. Field flattener

2. LPS filter
3. Camera adapter ring
4. A suitable guidescope
5. A suitable guide camera
6. A suitable portable power tank to power my NEQ6 pro in the field 

Is the intention to get everything in one go or to get items as and when required ?? Just you do not need everything immediatly

For reflectors I would say a Coma Corrector more then flattener - never hear much of a field flatener in a reflector, it is usually a coma corrector, and maybe they are, or do, similar, I do not know.

LPS filter can come along later, and they depend on the nature of the light pollution. If white light they may be of limited use. LPS filters here were for when just about everything was a sodium light and they were a narrow bit of the spectrum and could be easily and simply blocked.

You will need the DSLR adaptor ring.

Guide scope and guide camera, many use the ST80 scope, guide camera not sure. The ZWO items are good. However initially ned required. You can improve the polar alignment and simply take shorter but more exposures. Instead of six fine minute exposures take thirty one minute exposures.

Power supply will be needed and for the amount that you are likely to need I would suggest looking into making your own, especially when you get the guiding on the system.

You will need an intervalometer, sometimes called a remote timer for the DSLR

I would start simple and add on items as time and budget allows.

[alacant]

52 minutes ago, AweSIM said:

talk to TS to find out if they have the SkyWatcher Coma Corrector

Hi. TS have it but it seems rather expensive. HTH.

[AweSIM]

42 minutes ago, ronin said:

 

 

Is the intention to get everything in one go or to get items as and when required ?? Just you do not need everything immediatly

For reflectors I would say a Coma Corrector more then flattener - never hear much of a field flatener in a reflector, it is usually a coma corrector, and maybe they are, or do, similar, I do not know.

LPS filter can come along later, and they depend on the nature of the light pollution. If white light they may be of limited use. LPS filters here were for when just about everything was a sodium light and they were a narrow bit of the spectrum and could be easily and simply blocked.

You will need the DSLR adaptor ring.

Guide scope and guide camera, many use the ST80 scope, guide camera not sure. The ZWO items are good. However initially ned required. You can improve the polar alignment and simply take shorter but more exposures. Instead of six fine minute exposures take thirty one minute exposures.

Power supply will be needed and for the amount that you are likely to need I would suggest looking into making your own, especially when you get the guiding on the system.

You will need an intervalometer, sometimes called a remote timer for the DSLR

I would start simple and add on items as time and budget allows.

Hi @ronin. Thanks for your advice. Yes I was trying to get everything I might possibly need in one go. You're right that I should get items as I need them along the way. I think I'll drop LPS from my list. Regarding the power supply, I don't think I'll be comfortable making my own power supply. Hence I need help in deciding between the various power supply options available on TS. :-)

[AweSIM]

12 hours ago, ecuador said:

5) If you want it only for guiding, go for something classic, like an ASI120MM. However, it is not very cheap at TS and at just a few euro more you can get the Altair GPCAM2 IMX224 which is actually much better at imaging (planetary and even some limited deep space) and doesn't seem worse at guiding (I went from the QHY5L-IIm which is the same as the ASI120MM to the Altair and I am happy).

Hi again. So I checked both Altair and QHY5L-IIM on TS. A couple of questions about these cameras that you can help me with. :-)

1. Altair (https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8916_Altair-GPCAM2-IMX224-Colour-Guide-Imaging-Camera--1-2-Megapixels---Basic-Set.html) is actually less extensive (eur 223) than QHY5L (https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p5990_ALccd5L-IIm---high-speed-lunar-planetary-camera--max--200-pfs---monochrome-version.html) (eur 249). And both are color cameras. I was under the impression that mono cameras are better suited for guiding. Can you share your experience? 

2. Altair says the Camera has an autoguider port too. How does it work? Does it mean that I wont need to interface it with a spftware like phd via a laptop? Does it autoguide well? Can you explain a bit more about the entire process and your experience? 

[ecuador]

9 hours ago, AweSIM said:

Hi again. So I checked both Altair and QHY5L-IIM on TS. A couple of questions about these cameras that you can help me with. :-)

1. Altair (https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8916_Altair-GPCAM2-IMX224-Colour-Guide-Imaging-Camera--1-2-Megapixels---Basic-Set.html) is actually less extensive (eur 223) than QHY5L (https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p5990_ALccd5L-IIm---high-speed-lunar-planetary-camera--max--200-pfs---monochrome-version.html) (eur 249). And both are color cameras. I was under the impression that mono cameras are better suited for guiding. Can you share your experience? 

2. Altair says the Camera has an autoguider port too. How does it work? Does it mean that I wont need to interface it with a spftware like phd via a laptop? Does it autoguide well? Can you explain a bit more about the entire process and your experience? 

1. The 5L-IIm is mono, the 5L-IIc is color, TS has mixed up the details a bit, and has it at a very high price, it is quite cheaper than the Altair IMX224 normally, as it is a full generation older. In any case, for a lower price perhaps take a look at Modern Astronomy: http://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/cameras/guide-cameras/qhy-guide-cameras/qhy5-ii-mono/ it has "Pakistan" in the shipping drop-down... Mono cameras are better for guiding, if we are talking about mono and color versions of similar sensors. However, from using both I don't see a disadvantage from using the Altair IMX224 for guiding, it gives me comparable performance, the newer sensor seems to make up at least a good part of the "color" disadvantage. And it is great for imaging as well.

2. You still need to connect it to a laptop. The autoguider port is for mounts that don't have a direct to PC connection, PHD then sends the correction commands to the camera and the camera sends it via the autoguider port. It is an inferior method of guiding, since you only send pulses through the autoguider port - no control over speed etc - so I have never actually tried it, my mount connects to a PC so PHD can control it directly. Which reminds me, you'd have to do the same for your PC as well if you want decent guiding, so get an eqdir adapter: http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p8849_Ertl-Elektronics-Adapter-EQDir-USB-for-Skywatcher-EQ6.html (again the UK site is much cheaper if you can order from there: http://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/accessories/mount-accessories/eqdir-adapters-for-sky-watcher-mounts/ ).

You could also start your astrophoto endeavors without guiding if you want to split the cost.

[mikey2000]

I'm an imaging newb but I definitely would put a coma corrector on the shopping list.  Search my recent posts for some with/without crops of the edge of an aps-c camera.   With the corrector, edge-of-frame stars still look round instead of triangle-smudges.

 

i recently got hold of a qhy5L-ii camera and mini-guidescope.   It's been very cloudy so I've not managed a guided frame yet but it seems fully functional with my eq3pro

[ecuador]

On 2/12/2017 at 09:18, alacant said:

Hi. TS have it but it seems rather expensive. HTH.

Ah, good find. I didn't think of looking under their own brand. It is not expensive compared to some other reducer/correctors, and as I said, if you image something that uses a good chunk of your APS-C sensor field, it makes a big difference. Plus the 20% gain in exposure and 10% in field of view is not bad