Some Newbie Questions regarding "Serious" Imaging of Jupiter

[cshahar]

Hi Everyone:

I do exclusively H Alpha solar imaging, but was interested in doing some "serious" Jupiter imaging in the spring. I think I can transfer some of my skills (understanding the effects of seeing, using image acquisition software, stacking software, etc.) but I have a few questions I would like to ask nonetheless:

1. I have an opportunity to purchase a used Celestron 11-inch SCT (actually the Orion clone). It seems to be a compromise between portability and aperture. Eventually I would like to graduate to a 14 inch but I don't have permanent facilities. Anything I should know about this 11-inch scope before I purchase it?

2. I have the Televue 2X and 4X Powermates. Do people use extra magnification to increase the focal length?

3. I already have the ZWO ASI174MM. Should I consider getting the color model or a filter wheel? Frankly my preference is to get the color model, but would the results be as good?

4. What software do people use to process their images? Is it like the solar images I take, where the originals are pretty sad looking, and it requires a deft touch to bring out details and contrast? I am pretty adept at PhotoShop. Is there another software that would be more effective?

5. Finally, I once saw an online description of an adapter that improved imaging results related to bad seeing or scintillation. It was sold in Europe. Does anyone know the model or site? Do these things actually work?

Thanks for any help!

-Charles

[jsmoraes]

IMHO
2. Both Powermates will work well. You can get more resolution of the planet ("amplification") using extensor between Powermate and camera. Maybe the 4x Powermates will have limited use because of seeing.
3. Mono cameras are better in quality and details. The color camera has bayer pattern. Therefore you will have less total pixels for each  R, G and B capture.
Color cameras is more easy to work. Since you are hopping for lucky frame (frames with no distortion from refraction), you can spend more time with a single movie. Mono camera needs 3 or 4 movies (R,G,B and L) and perhaps you will need to use derrotation process of the planet in WinJupos.
4. I use Castrator to center the planet, AS!2 to stack, wavelets from Registax 6.0 and Photoshop CS3.
5. you are talking about adaptative optic.

note: you can see my Jupiter photos at http://jsmastronomy.30143.n7.nabble.com/Planets-f3.html

[cshahar]

Thanks for answering. This is quite helpful. Lovely images you have taken by the way. The thought that I can possibly get features on the Jovian moons excites me!

-Charles

[jsmoraes]

The thought that I can possibly get features on the Jovian moons excites me!

You can do it with Powermate 4x and 14" and good seeing.

With 11" you will need extension as told, and a very very good seeing.

[Kokatha man]

The C11 is an excellent planetary scope but a 4X P/Mate will be overkill...the 2X P/Mate will work fine although barlows are actually preferable because you can use extension tubes to increase the image scale (& conversely by bringing the camera sensor closer to the lens element of the barlow decrease its' amplification below the stated value)...P/Mates (both 2X & 4X) only marginally increase image scale with extra distance.

Castrator is not necessary when using AS!2 as it is actually part of the "front-end" of AS!2 anyway...Emil Kraikkamp being the author of both softwares...

Monos are usually preferable but the colour ASI224MC has been a game-changer with its high sensitivity, very low noise & iR sensitivity - also CH4 sensitivity.

This colour camera has in fact made it possible to capture very high resolution images of Uranus & Neptune...using one allowed us to capture detail on Neptune back in September that was only recorded elsewhere with professional instruments, the HST in particular.

That said a mono version (or one very similar) of this camera is always in the wish-list...hopefully not too far distant..!

I think you are actually referring to an "ADC" or atmospheric distortion corrector...these are especially useful when imaging planets that are at lower elevation...a scope that is at thermal equilibrium, well-collimated (easy with a C11 using a star-test & in-camera) & of course good seeing are the prime ingredients for successful planetary imaging..!

Visit our website to see planetary images at  http://momilika.net/  

[cshahar]

This is an extremely helpful response. Thank you! Your images are mind-boggling. A C14 will certainly bring planetary imaging to another level, but I don't have a permanent observatory, so a C11 will be sufficient to cut my teeth, so to speak. The Uranus and Neptune shots on your site blow my mind!

Thanks for the tips on the barlow and the ASI224MC!

What type of post processing do you generally do to achieve your results?

-Charles

[Kokatha man]

...processing is a fairly standard routine for most people - as jsm noted AS!2 > R6 > AstraImage > Photoshop.

The really important aspects of these various software applications is using them to become proficient & understand what is happening with each tool etc: after learning about optimum capture settings with any particular camera (histogram, gain, exposure & frame-rate, making sure the other controls are correctly set, capture duration) & of course the aspects I mentioned in my first post here - with special attention to focus also - one really needs that "hands-on" practise/experience with the software programs capturing planetary video/data & processing it...& there's plenty of forum advice & information already out there to look all this up!

FireCapture is the most preferable capture program imo for said video captures...working out a good MAP box arrangement (multi-alignment point) for AS!2, choosing the optimum stacksize with regard to quality...& when importing the stacked image from AS!2 into Registax6 for wavelet sharpening applications have the "Zoom" window open & the histogram display graph (set to "log") to see what applying wavelet sharpening & denoise values actually is doing to the image via the zoom close-up & the graph...the "RGB Align" is also a valuable tool in R6, helpful for both colour camera captures as well as the combined channel results from mono camera data...

Photoshop (CS3, 4 etc) is another world again but proficiency with this particular software is very handy indeed!

Experimentation is really the key to all of this, don't be afraid to try different settings & to re-arrange some of the applications somewhat to see what produces the best outcome: eg heavier wavelets in R6 versus lighter applications there & more deconvolution in AstraIamge...or lighter in both these programs & more emphasis on USM (Unsharp mask) in whatever Photoshop version you have etc. (GIMP is a freeware program with a lot of the P/shop benefits, maybe even some additional applications...Image Analyser is another freeware that I find useful at times...)

Lots to absorb but nothing beats going out & getting some videos to start the ball rolling..!

[riklaunim]

1. I have an opportunity to purchase a used Celestron 11-inch SCT (actually the Orion clone). It seems to be a compromise between portability and aperture. Eventually I would like to graduate to a 14 inch but I don't have permanent facilities. Anything I should know about this 11-inch scope before I purchase it?

The bigger they are the better resolution, but also the bigger cooling problems - the telescope may never reach ambient temperature if the drop is to high. For C11/14 I used fan cooling before use to cool down it faster. 

2. I have the Televue 2X and 4X Powermates. Do people use extra magnification to increase the focal length?

The optical f/ratio depends on camera pixel size. So before using one of those you need the camera. SCT at f/10 will use 2x at best.

 

3. I already have the ZWO ASI174MM. Should I consider getting the color model or a filter wheel? Frankly my preference is to get the color model, but would the results be as good?

ASI224 as the color camera could be better. ASI174MM can be used for Moon or some other planetary imaging if you don't want to do RGB with a mono camera (like maybe infrared longpass luminance imaging).

4. What software do people use to process their images? Is it like the solar images I take, where the originals are pretty sad looking, and it requires a deft touch to bring out details and contrast? I am pretty adept at PhotoShop. Is there another software that would be more effective?

Stacking in Autostakkert2, sharpening in some app like AstraImage, PS and so on. 

5. Finally, I once saw an online description of an adapter that improved imaging results related to bad seeing or scintillation. It was sold in Europe. Does anyone know the model or site? Do these things actually work?

Maybe "atmospheric dispersion corrector" ? Those correct dispersion when the planet isn't high enough, and they do work a lot.

[cshahar]

Wow! This is excellent information. Thank you so much! I am really fortunate that I have done a season of h-alpha solar imaging using FireCapture and AS2. I will definitely investigate some of the additional programs mentioned. This is very helpful, and I thank you for your time!

-Charles

[Pete Presland]

The bigger they are the better resolution, but also the bigger cooling problems - the telescope may never reach ambient temperature if the drop is to high. For C11/14 I used fan cooling before use to cool down it faster. 

The optical f/ratio depends on camera pixel size. So before using one of those you need the camera. SCT at f/10 will use 2x at best.

 ASI224 as the color camera could be better. ASI174MM can be used for Moon or some other planetary imaging if you don't want to do RGB with a mono camera (like maybe infrared longpass luminance imaging).

Stacking in Autostakkert2, sharpening in some app like AstraImage, PS and so on. 

Maybe "atmospheric dispersion corrector" ? Those correct dispersion when the planet isn't high enough, and they do work a lot.

Never thought i would see the day where "colour" camera outperformed a mono camera! It would seem very odd to doing single runs after all these years of RGB imaging!