Mount / refractor question

[Galaxyfaraway]

Hello,

For imaging: I am planning to get a ed80 f5/400mm refractor and Celestron Edgehd 8' (the latter more for visual for now while I learn).

Would these two cover me in terms of objects of interest or is there a strong argument for getting a longer/heavier refractor later on? 

I ask because I am deliberating with myself which mount to get: HEQ5 pro or NEQ6 pro. 

I am now leaning towards HEQ5 as I worry about the heavy weight of the NEQ6. It would be nice to have a portable but steady mount and I don't see a reason to overmount. I realise this may restrict future options but if I can get plenty of targets/images with the two, I'd be happy and there might be no need to get the much heavier mount. However if a heavier refractor will open completely new doors (such as a 150ed), I would have to consider the heavier mount.

Thanks, GFA

[Uplooker]

I don't see a reason to overmount. I realise this may restrict future options

You can never over mount. Get the NEQ6 as it will not limit your options. Buy right, buy once

[brantuk]

The Edge 8" ota is 14lbs and the HEQ5 payload is 30lbs (not including the 5kg counter weight) so well within limits. The ED80 -  no probs. Looks like a great combination covering all bases (especially for a starter kit).

[DaveS]

Well, the Edge HD is f/10 native, or f/7 when used with the reducer, so at least 1400mm or so fl. That's a big gap to fill. Also I have my doubts about how well the HEQ5 will handle the FL. You may get away with it as it's a short OTA.

To fill in the gap you could consider the 150P-DS at 750mm FL though you'll have to budget for a good coma corrector, the Baader MPCC II is probably as good as it gets without spending silly money.

I'm not sure it's possible to be overmounted without being silly, certainly at the budget end (ie under £2000 or so) I'd be thinking AZ-EQ6 especially for that Edge HD.

What are you going to do for guiding? I would have suggested the inevitable ST80 / Loadstar II combination, though when you come to image through the Edge HD and OAG might be worth looking at, though not the Celestron one as it's too thick to reach focus with the reducer. D'oh!

[damnut]

Whilst Brantuk is correct above for the capacity of the mount for visual, imaging it is rated for 11kg, so you may be on it's limit with  the Edge when fully laden.

[Galaxyfaraway]

Well, the Edge HD is f/10 native, or f/7 when used with the reducer, so at least 1400mm or so fl. That's a big gap to fill. Also I have my doubts about how well the HEQ5 will handle the FL. You may get away with it as it's a short OTA.

To fill in the gap you could consider the 150P-DS at 750mm FL though you'll have to budget for a good coma corrector, the Baader MPCC II is probably as good as it gets without spending silly money.

I'm not sure it's possible to be overmounted without being silly, certainly at the budget end (ie under £2000 or so) I'd be thinking AZ-EQ6 especially for that Edge HD.

What are you going to do for guiding? I would have suggested the inevitable ST80 / Loadstar II combination, though when you come to image through the Edge HD and OAG might be worth looking at, though not the Celestron one as it's too thick to reach focus with the reducer. D'oh!

You mention AZ EQ6: is this worth the extra £400 over the NEQ6 pro do you think? As I also want to do visual and be able to set up quickly, is it much more convenient to have both modes available or is the ease of use/set up in equatorial mode about the same? Apols for basic questions. I haven't used any of the equipment before. Perhaps some of you tried? thx, GFA 

[DaveS]

AFAIK the main things it has are a belt drive reduction to the worms, getting rid of a lot of PE brash, absolute encoders on both axes (Though not 10 micron class) so you can swing it without it getting lost, better clutches on both axes, and improved altitude adjustment for polar alignment, no more bendy bolts.

Whether that's worth the £400 to you only you can decide.

As I've never used an alt-az mount I can't comment on that side of things.

Myself I'll be bypassing all the SW mounts and looking at Avalon / Mesu level offerings.

[Galaxyfaraway]

What are you going to do for guiding? I would have suggested the inevitable ST80 / Loadstar II combination, though when you come to image through the Edge HD and OAG might be worth looking at, though not the Celestron one as it's too thick to reach focus with the reducer. D'oh!

Yes, Starlight Xpress Lodestar X2 was the recommendation. Is there something smaller/lighter available than the ST80 that would still work well?

I was also considering one of the Skywatcher Maksutov Cassegrains instead of the Celestron but the EdgeHD might be better? (Especially since it can later be combined with Hyperstar? I am not sure Maks have something equivalent).

[Galaxyfaraway]

AFAIK the main things it has are a belt drive reduction to the worms, getting rid of a lot of PE brash, absolute encoders on both axes (Though not 10 micron class) so you can swing it without it getting lost, better clutches on both axes, and improved altitude adjustment for polar alignment, no more bendy bolts.

Whether that's worth the £400 to you only you can decide.

As I've never used an alt-az mount I can't comment on that side of things.

Myself I'll be bypassing all the SW mounts and looking at Avalon / Mesu level offerings.

With the swinging: can't one just slew it slowly or does it take forever?

The Avalon / Mesu mounts look great but probably out of reach for me for now. Do people take NEQ6s to dark sites / out of their homes or is a more portable set up recommended? I did like the relative 'lightness' of the HEQ5.

[brantuk]

You can check all the weights and carrying capacities for most of the popular mounts here:

https://focusscientific.com/osCommerce/catalog/index.php/cPath/49_56

Check the individual specs of the ota's for their weight. Bear in mind the extra weight you may add by attaching cameras, guide scopes, and extra fittings like mounting plates and guide rings - it all mounts up. Also don't forget that larger scopes will require more or heavier counterweights.

In total it's a good guide for the equipment you are mounting to be generally no more than half to two thirds of the mount carrying capacity - for an easy life lol.

[brantuk]

I used to take an NEQ6 and an HEQ5 to Kelling equinox meetings - I now have an AZEQ6GT (a couple of lbs lighter than the NEQ6) which I sometimes take to local dark site meetings, but my main grab and go is now a Skytee-2 and a couple of scopes.

None of these are too heavy to carry from the house to the car, and then the car to the tripod, on arrival anywhere - and I'm in somewhat dubious physical shape lol.

[Galaxyfaraway]

You can check all the weights and carrying capacities for most of the popular mounts here:

https://focusscientific.com/osCommerce/catalog/index.php/cPath/49_56

Check the individual specs of the ota's for their weight. Bear in mind the extra weight you may add by attaching cameras, guide scopes, and extra fittings like mounting plates and guide rings - it all mounts up. Also don't forget that larger scopes will require more or heavier counterweights.

In total it's a good guide for the equipment you are mounting to be generally no more than half to two thirds of the mount carrying capacity - for an easy life lol.

Thanks, I have all the data in a spreadsheet for all the mounts I am interested in and it seems to point to HEQ5 pro being capable enough. What I can't quite work out precisely is how much the extra stuff is likely to weigh. I have this:

Likely weight in kg 9.54 Celestron Edge HD 8" 6.35 DSLR or CCD 0.84 Lodestar Xpress 2 0.85 Guide scope 0.5 misc (rings, hyperstar etc) 1

Have I missed anything else? With 80ed things have much more headroom.

I gather that HEQ5 pro can be loaded up to 12kg due to shape/compactness of OTAs (with a Newt, it would be a kilo less, due to it being long).

I am trying to justify a NEQ6 purchase (or paying twice for an AZ EQ6).

Tricky, this stuff. Many thanks for the help, GFA

[Galaxyfaraway]

Oh no, the table didn't come out (how come I can't edit posts?):

Likely weight in kg         9.54

Celestron Edge HD 8"  6.35

DSLR or CCD               0.84

Lodestar Xpress 2        0.85

Guide scope                 0.5

misc                              1

[Galaxyfaraway]

Regarding a guide scope for the Edge HD8': I originally wanted to use the 80ed frac to guide (it will probably be the Skywatcher Esprit 80ed triplet) but since it is 4kg, it will be too heavy for the HEQ5 (if I do go with this mount). And since I still need separate a guide scope for the triplet, I was wondering what the best, portable/lightweight option would be? Orion mini (0.5kg) I think will only work up to 1500mm. But do people ever use the C8 without a reducer for imaging at the full 2032mm? If yes, then I'd have to go with a ST80 (1.5kg). Head spinning...