Imaging With Nikon D3100 (first steps, camera settings)

[Aussie Dave]

So I just received my T-Ring and T-Adapter 1.25"  today for my Nikon D3100 (14mp CMOS sensor), nice early Xmas pressie. When I first attached it to the camera body, the display said "Len's not attached" and it powers off which I assume is normal. So I changed to manual mode setting and the error no longer shows and the camera seems to stay on. I took a couple of test shots of the sunlit curtain which was quite bright and it takes exposures of about 12 seconds which I find strange (ISO set to 800). Something else I've noticed is that I've set it to 2 second delay timer but it starts to take the shot as soon press the shutter buttton. Is this normal?

I'm hoping that some members are familiar with the Nikon D series and could direct me to any Beginner threads about starting Astro Photography specific for this model or similar, what to turn on/off, or can pass on some general settings for imaging the bigger, closer planets ie Saturn and Jupiter and maybe Orions nebular later on. I don't have a tracking mount yet or an IR remote for the camera but they're next on the list.

I also have post processing software that I'm not familiar with which I'm not getting into right now. I'd just like to get some images first of the 2 planets to see what results I can achieve for starters and go from there.

[gnomus]

I don't know this particular model, but I am a Nikon user (and have been for many years).  I am sorry if I am teaching grandmother to suck eggs in what follows, but it was not clear from your post what level of knowledge you had about your camera.

I don't know what you meant exactly by "manual mode setting".  For AP there are two things you will need to do "manually".  One is that you will need to set the camera so that you focus manually.  You will also need to take control of the exposure manually (Look for the letter 'M').  A quick look at the specifications show that you do have "Bulb" mode available.  This means that you will be able to do long exposures.  It would be better to use some sort of cable release for this, but I don't know which ones will work with your model (the manual should tell you this).  It is called "Bulb" because in 'ye olden days' the cable release was operated by a rubber 'bulb' that you squeezed, and the air triggered a mechanical shutter device.  Once squeezed you could tighten a little screw to hold the shutter open as long as you like.  

I believe that you have "Live View", which will be important (essential probably) for focussing.  Do you have "Exposure Delay"?  If so, I would put this on when doing AP.  Exposure delay works as follows - when the shutter is pressed (even using a cable release) the mirror on the camera flips up.  It stays there for a set time (I can do 1, 2 or 3 seconds on mine) and then the shutter releases.  The reason for taking photos this way is that there can be some vibration when the mirror flips up - the delay allows time for this vibration to damp out.  I'd also use this setting for landscape photography (from a tripod obviously) by the way.  Live view works by flipping the mirror up, but I believe that from Live View mode you are limited to 30 second exposures. 

Of course you will need to have the camera on a motorised mount of some sort to take really long exposures.

Why not take a wide lens (anything around 24mm or so) - set it wide open (that is the lowest f/stop available) - set the camera to 3200 ISO (or 6400 ISO) - and set your camera to take a 30 second exposure.  Put it on a tripod,  point it at the milky way, focus, shoot and see what comes out?

Good luck.

[gnomus]

....Something else I've noticed is that I've set it to 2 second delay timer but it starts to take the shot as soon press the shutter buttton. Is this normal? ...

Again I don't know your model, but I believe the way that this normally works is a 2-step process.  Firstly, you need to set the length of timer in a sub-menu on the camera (it sounds like you have already done this bit).  Secondly, you then need to select timer shooting mode.  This is usually done using the wheel on top of the camera - the icon usually looks (a little) like  a timer.

This is different from "Exposure Delay" mentioned in my earlier thread. 

[ronin]

Don't have a Nikon but on mine (Sony) setting it to Manual means that the camera will use the settings that you have specified. Meaning you have defined the Exposure length and defined the ISO.

ISO is easy, pick say 800.

The Exposure length on mine is done by going to "S" and setting a value like 20" on the display.

Then putting the selector at "M" and the camera does an exposure of 20 seconds at ISO (say) 800.

When in Auto or Program the camera ignores the "manual" values and does it's own stuff.

Does mean that you are moving the selection dial around all the time.

However in Manual it means just that - you pick and set and the camera just does it.

Mine complains about what I have chosen as it is convinced (rightly) that I have no idea what I am doing.

But it does it, begrudgingly.

If you do not set the exposure then no idea what it uses, probaly a best guess or what happened to be there last time.

At the end, or before using normally, I think I need to reset the ISO to 100 or 200 otherwise that gets used for general photography, but the "manual" exposure length is just ignored.

[Aussie Dave]

In M mode (manual mode for all the camera settings) I don't have any exposure settings. It does have 100 - 3200 as well as Hi 1, Hi 2 ISO settings. I have no idea what Hi 1 and Hi 2 ISO settings are, assuming they are higher than 3200 ISO as they come after 3200.

Image quality set to JPEG normal, change to a RAW setting? Other settings are NEF (RAW) + JPG fine, NEF (RAW ), JPEG fine, JPEG basic.

Auto Distort Control is off. Not sure about this setting.

Colour Space set to sRGB, or can set to Adobe RGB

Noise Reduction on.

Auto Focus Assist on. Can turn off

Mirror Lock Up, could I use this for long exposures of up to maybe 15 seconds without tracking mount? I can not see a Bulb mode setting.

Focus can be done on the back screen (switching from viewfinder). Focusing will be done by the telescope focuser with either of my scopes (see my sig).

I could always do a standard shot of the night sky like you say on a normal camera tripod  with a infared remote shutter release or 2 or 10 second self timer delay. Self timer delay works fine with standard lens, just not with the T-Ring and mount. There's no option for a cable release on this camera. Have the standard Nikon small zoom lens 18mm - 55mm, 1:3.5 - 5.6.

[Aussie Dave]

Ok, found that little wheel for exposure, was set to 15 seconds which explains my first problem.

[SkySurfer]

Hi, nice camera

I think with that 1.25" nosepiece you will get some vignetting, you would be better with a T thread size adapter or a 2" one would be even better, then the whole chip will get illuminated.

Just my opinion

:)

SS

[Aussie Dave]

The 1.25 adapter does seem smaller than the sensor. I did look for a 2" but couldn't find one, will test this one out first. Also looked at an adapter that did prime focus that could also use eyepieces for projection, I went the cheaper option just to see if the T_Ring would work.

Have just read online that I can not use infared remote only a wired remote via it's GPS socket which is fine.

What do you think the maximum exposure time I can get away with doing prime focus with my 2 scopes without getting star trails? I'm guessing around 20 seconds.

Also what RAW setting and Color Space setting do you's think I should use? Eventually I will use the post photo processing software, stacking proceedure etc.

ATM it's just getting some general camera settings to get started and then tweeking for better results.

[edjrgibbs]

Hi

I think you're going to struggle on planetary work with the D3100. I use mine for DSO work when travelling with my light tracking mount but on planetary the image will be very small due to the large sensor. The best way would be to take video in live view and stack using Registax. I think there may be a crop mode on the D3100 that will give you a better image scale. 

Ed

[Aussie Dave]

Video is another option yes. The only crop option is cropping the the saved image from memory card which I can do manually in my image editor later. I can't see where's there's a crop or zoom type feature for the image onto the sensor if I'm understanding this correctly.

[gnomus]

In M mode (manual mode for all the camera settings) I don't have any exposure settings. It does have 100 - 3200 as well as Hi 1, Hi 2 ISO settings. I have no idea what Hi 1 and Hi 2 ISO settings are, assuming they are higher than 3200 ISO as they come after 3200.

Image quality set to JPEG normal, change to a RAW setting? Other settings are NEF (RAW) + JPG fine, NEF (RAW ), JPEG fine, JPEG basic.

Auto Distort Control is off. Not sure about this setting.

Colour Space set to sRGB, or can set to Adobe RGB

Noise Reduction on.

Auto Focus Assist on. Can turn off

Mirror Lock Up, could I use this for long exposures of up to maybe 15 seconds without tracking mount? I can not see a Bulb mode setting.

Focus can be done on the back screen (switching from viewfinder). Focusing will be done by the telescope focuser with either of my scopes (see my sig).

I could always do a standard shot of the night sky like you say on a normal camera tripod  with a infared remote shutter release or 2 or 10 second self timer delay. Self timer delay works fine with standard lens, just not with the T-Ring and mount. There's no option for a cable release on this camera. Have the standard Nikon small zoom lens 18mm - 55mm, 1:3.5 - 5.6.

Glad you found the little wheel to change exposure.  Bulb setting is covered on pages 77 and 78 on the manual http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/kie88335f7869dfuejdl=-cww2/D3100_EN.pdf You may find that some of these settings are only available in certain "Modes".  It may be that if you have the timer on, Bulb is not available.  You will probably only see it in 'M' mode.  The wireless release will probably work.  I had one on an older Nikon some time back.  They usually work along the lines of pressing once to open the shutter and pressing again to close it (when in Bulb mode).  The manual is the place to look for details.  

Regarding the manual, I would read and make sure you understand the the whole section on focus (pages 55-63 - especially Manual Focussing on page 62); also the chapter on Exposure (p79 onwards); and Live View (p37 onwards).

For AP you will be controlling almost every aspect of the camera.  None of the bells and whistles that we are used to in our daytime photography will be of much use.  You will need to understand how your camera works and I am afraid that this will probably mean reading most if not all of the manual.  Remember also that you will be doing this in the dark!!

I wonder if your mirror lock up is only there for cleaning the sensor rather than shooting.  You'd need to read the manual yourself for that one.  I did a quick search of the manual for exposure delay and found no hits, so it might be that you don't have this.  That's no biggie, though.  

As to your other questions:

I would definitely shoot in RAW - you will struggle to bring out detail from JPEGS.

I have my colour space set to Adobe RGB.

Noise reduction is more tricky.  If you are taking just one exposure (like my suggested Milky Way shot) then leave it on.  If you are taking multiple shots and stacking, then turn it off.  There are other ways of dealing with noise that you can read about elsewhere.

Focus assist is (I think) a little light that comes on to help focus on nearby objects in low light.  You will be setting the focus manually, so don't worry about this.  I'd leave it on for regular use.  When you have the camera set to manual focus it won't come on.

I hope this helps.

[gnomus]

Your video mode might be useful for shooting the moon and so forth.  It will be relatively easy to take a few minutes video of the moon and process them in Registax (or AS2).  (Both are free.)  You should be able to find tutorials on YouTube regarding Registax (and AS2).  Personally I have been using AS2, but I am quite new to this (and you still need Registax for stacking).   I don't know about planets through your set up - I'd suggest moon first, and if that proves successful, why not give it a go?

By the way, the video you produce my have to be converted into a format that these programs can read - I don't know what file format your camera saves video as. 

Adding to my previous post, there's nothing to stop you taking pictures (or shooting video) during the day in manual exposure mode (and manual focus mode, for that matter).  If you did that for a while you'd very quickly get an understanding of how the various factors resulting in a successful exposure interact with one another.

It's not difficult at all.  I suspect that the trickiest part is going to be achieving successful focus.  When I first came into this AP game I thought focus would be straightforward - after all everything is at infinity right?  I could not have been more wrong!!!

[gnomus]

So I just received my T-Ring and T-Adapter 1.25"  today .......

By the way the T-Adapter is usually much wider than 1.25".  The ring goes on the camera and should screw in to the adapter - something that is attached directly to the scope (after removing the visual back), It is not usually slid into the eyepiece receptacle.  I think the bit for your scope is this: http://www.opticsplanet.com/meade-62-t-adapter-for-all-lt-ls-lx90-lx200-lx600-lx850-and-max-models.html

BUT - please don't take my word for it.  Read your scope manual to make sure you order the correct part.    Perhaps others who have your scope could chip in...

[gnomus]

Your video mode might be useful for shooting the moon and so forth.  It will be relatively easy to take a few minutes video of the moon and process them in Registax (or AS2).  (Both are free.)  You should be able to find tutorials on YouTube regarding Registax (and AS2).  Personally I have been using AS2, but I am quite new to this (and you still need Registax for stacking).   I don't know about planets through your set up - I'd suggest moon first, and if that proves successful, why not give it a go?

By the way, the video you produce my have to be converted into a format that these programs can read - I don't know what file format your camera saves video as. 

Adding to my previous post, there's nothing to stop you taking pictures (or shooting video) during the day in manual exposure mode (and manual focus mode, for that matter).  If you did that for a while you'd very quickly get an understanding of how the various factors resulting in a successful exposure interact with one another.

It's not difficult at all.  I suspect that the trickiest part is going to be achieving successful focus.  When I first came into this AP game I thought focus would be straightforward - after all everything is at infinity right?  I could not have been more wrong!!!

Sorry - I cannot edit posts yet.  The second line in brackets should read:  (and you still need Registax for sharpening) - not "stacking"

[Aussie Dave]

Thanks all and gnomus for info. I'm familiar with SLR film camera's, DSLR's are different in some aspects, glad I found the exposure wheel. I often wondered what that was.

Yes my main issues will be focusing with my 2 main scopes and working out exposure times. At least now a have some settings to get me started. Have 2 barlows, same lengths, one an Optex 2X Barlow and the other Orion Shorty 2X Barlow if I can't focus though the telescope focuser. There's also T/T2-Mount adjustable extension tubes that you can buy too.

Already have the T-Ring and T-Adapter gnomus, see first post/pic Mine was listed on eBay as a T2-Ring and T-Mount for Nikon DSLR / SLR. As SkySurfer said I may get vignetting. Probably on the corners and maybe a little on the left and right side of the photos, don't know yet but not worried if I do as long as the subject matter is in the middle of the photo. Can easily upgrade to a 2" T-Adapter for the SkyWatcher 10" Dob scope as that has both 1.25" and 2" eyepiece options on the focuser. Still thinking about the T2-Adapter that has the option of prime focus AP and for eyepiece/projection AP too. Best of both worlds then.

The Seban T2-Adapter, eyepiece projection and prime focus photography http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331221523327?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Converting files isn't a problem, have a couple of programs that can handle this. Oh and I found the bulb option thanks to that little exposure wheel but not having tracking mounts, I can't do lengthy exposures anyway unless I want star trails, which I don't atm. Will start off with 800 ISO, exposure times at between 15-30 seconds, 5 second increments are the exposure options on the Nikon D3100. If I need to get specific, can use Bulb mode later on after I buy the wired shutter release remote. That's next on the list to buy I guess.

From what I've read,  the miror lock up is helpful to stop mirror vibration when taking your shots. Will look in to this later.