Good ccd??

[Zakalwe]

they recon you get better imaging with a ccd? More detail.

I know that it sounded like an obvious question, but there's method in my madness.

Yes, you can get a better image, as long as you know how. Its a bit like saying that Tiger Woods will get a better shot with a mega-expensive club. Of course he will. However the difference between a mega-expensive club and a stick in my hands would be almost zero. I know nothing about golf (AKA a good walk ruined), and all I would be likely to do is bend it or hack divots up.

By all means, spend your hard-earned on whatever you want to, but your limited budget would suggest that there isn't money to burn? And the way that you phrased the questions and answers might suggest that you may be better served by spending more time learning the basics of AP and getting more experience, than by jumping straight in, burning your limited budget, and then finding in 6 months that you got it wrong.

What are you using at the moment? DSLR? What mount are you using? Are you auto-guiding? Do you have a field flattener/coma corrector? You might be better off spending your funds in these areas first?

The difference in an image produced on a wobbly mount, with poor polar alignment, no auto-guiding and a DSLR compared to an image produced on a wobbly mount, with poor polar alignment, no auto-guiding and a CCD is probably a lot less than you think.....

[lensman57]

The QHY8L would be a good match for your 250PDS.

But for a short focal length apo the Atik 420 will be a better match.

With the QHY 8L and the 250 PDS the OP will be imaging at a crazy 1.25 arcsec/pixel. This is a rediculous value for the UK skies, perhaps more appropriate to some where in New Mexico or the Atacama desert with dry still air and superb seeing but not UK. With the QHY8L the best matches are scopes of about 750~900 mm of FL. The Atik 420 IMHO is not worth the money they are asking for it, much better idea to go for a 428EX, yes it is much more expensive but it is also much more of a camera,  he also already has a pretty good DSLR for imaging that I think he should try and learn on before considering CCDs.

Regards,

A.G

[GuillermoBarrancos]

With the QHY 8L and the 250 PDS the OP will be imaging at a crazy 1.25 arcsec/pixel. This is a rediculous value for the UK skies, perhaps more appropriate to some where in New Mexico or the Atacama desert with dry still air and superb seeing but not UK. With the QHY8L the best matches are scopes of about 750~900 mm of FL. The Atik 420 IMHO is not worth the money they are asking for it, much better idea to go for a 428EX, yes it is much more expensive but it is also much more of a camera,  he also already has a pretty good DSLR for imaging that I think he should try and learn on before considering CCDs.

Regards,

A.G

The guy over at Astronomyshed seems to be doing fine with his QHY8L and is very happy with it.

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a407/astronomyshed/Deep%20Sky/andromedadss2.png

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a407/astronomyshed/Deep%20Sky/m52bub3.png

If I am not mistaken, at least the second image is taken with his 10inch newt.

The QHY8L will blow any DSLR out of the water! No contest! This CCD camera is an incredible value for the money.

The more I have read and seen about it, the more impressed I have become with this camera. It´s definitely on my own wish list.

Like I said before. Not everyone has a big wallet. For People with smaller wallets, these cameras are a great entry point into CCD imaging.

[Skooby]

I know that it sounded like an obvious question, but there's method in my madness.

Yes, you can get a better image, as long as you know how. Its a bit like saying that Tiger Woods will get a better shot with a mega-expensive club. Of course he will. However the difference between a mega-expensive club and a stick in my hands would be almost zero. I know nothing about golf (AKA a good walk ruined), and all I would be likely to do is bend it or hack divots up.

By all means, spend your hard-earned on whatever you want to, but your limited budget would suggest that there isn't money to burn? And the way that you phrased the questions and answers might suggest that you may be better served by spending more time learning the basics of AP and getting more experience, than by jumping straight in, burning your limited budget, and then finding in 6 months that you got it wrong.

What are you using at the moment? DSLR? What mount are you using? Are you auto-guiding? Do you have a field flattener/coma corrector? You might be better off spending your funds in these areas first?

The difference in an image produced on a wobbly mount, with poor polar alignment, no auto-guiding and a DSLR compared to an image produced on a wobbly mount, with poor polar alignment, no auto-guiding and a CCD is probably a lot less than you think.....

ive got a neq6 pro mount canon 600d dslr and 250pds. I also have the baader coma corrector. I've also purchased the William optics 71ed for a guide mount and to use as imaging hence the ccd? I'm also in the middle of reading making every photon count and long exposures book I've joined a club in my local area and a guy who goes to the club also from my area is going to help me learn. I love this hobby and want to really learn more and I read the books and Internet forums and sites which gives me so much information but I also like to read it from advanced members on here! Which after reading up to now has opened my eyes a lot more thanks you all for your expertise I will most definitely take it all on board

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[lensman57]

ive got a neq6 pro mount canon 600d dslr and 250pds. I also have the baader coma corrector. I've also purchased the William optics 71ed for a guide mount and to use as imaging hence the ccd? I'm also in the middle of reading making every photon count and long exposures book I've joined a club in my local area and a guy who goes to the club also from my area is going to help me learn. I love this hobby and want to really learn more and I read the books and Internet forums and sites which gives me so much information but I also like to read it from advanced members on here! Which after reading up to now has opened my eyes a lot more thanks you all for your expertise I will most definitely take it all on board

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I think that you have all the right equipment to start imaging without spending a fortune on a CCD. If however, you  have set your heart on having one then so be it but I don't think that at this stage it is either necessary or desirable. There is  however an Atik 16HRC on the UK astro buy and sell for about £380.00, it is an OSC and there is also an Atik 314L Mono for £600.00 this is not the L+ version so I am not sure if has set point cooling but you may want to have a look at them.

Regards,

A.G

[Skooby]

I think that you have all the right equipment to start imaging without spending a fortune on a CCD. If however, you have set your heart on having one then so be it but I don't think that at this stage it is either necessary or desirable. There is however an Atik 16HRC on the UK astro buy and sell for about £380.00, it is an OSC and there is also an Atik 314L Mono for £600.00 this is not the L+ version so I am not sure if has set point cooling but you may want to have a look at them.

Regards,

A.G

thank you lensman I will have a look. I don't know for definite what I'm gonna do but there's no harm in having a look thanks.

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[Zakalwe]

If you like the FoV that you 600D gives you then I'd have no hesitation in recommending the QHY8L. The sensor is the same size as the DSLR so you get a lot of sensor real-estate. Great cameras, easy to use and no faffing with external filters. A little over your budget..they seem to go for around the £700 mark 2nd hand.

[lensman57]

thank you lensman I will have a look. I don't know for definite what I'm gonna do but there's no harm in having a look thanks.

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Hi,

The guy selling the 16HRC has dropped the price to £285.00, this has the same sensor as the 314L but it is OSC, aslong as the camera and the cooling is fuctional I think that it is a good bargain.

A.G

[ollypenrice]

I'm very 'CCD' and much of my time is spent introducing people to this medium and running courses. However, you have a fast scope in the reflector which will work quite well with a DSLR. I would suggest that one shot colour CCD is a half baked step up fom DSLR and it isn't a step I'd take in your situation. I'd wait a bit longer and get a mono and filters CCD which gives you more flexibility, faster results (LRGB is faster than OSC by about 3 to 2), allows you to get into proper narrowband imaging, opens up the moon time, and so on and on. Part of the CCD learning curve is about going beyond OSC. I fear that an OSC would be something you'd outgrow very quickly. I've used OSC extensively but rarely posted an OSC only image. Mostly I added mono data to OSC.

Olly

[lensman57]

I'm very 'CCD' and much of my time is spent introducing people to this medium and running courses. However, you have a fast scope in the reflector which will work quite well with a DSLR. I would suggest that one shot colour CCD is a half baked step up fom DSLR and it isn't a step I'd take in your situation. I'd wait a bit longer and get a mono and filters CCD which gives you more flexibility, faster results (LRGB is faster than OSC by about 3 to 2), allows you to get into proper narrowband imaging, opens up the moon time, and so on and on. Part of the CCD learning curve is about going beyond OSC. I fear that an OSC would be something you'd outgrow very quickly. I've used OSC extensively but rarely posted an OSC only image. Mostly I added mono data to OSC.

Olly

Olly's point is quite valid but I think that OSC a has place. I am speaking personally but where I live the chance of having two clear nights one after the other are almost none exixtant. So is the length of the clear night, although I do have a 314L+ and a motorised FW I have hardly managed to go beyond collecting Ha data as either the target has dissapeared behind the trees or clouds have moved in or something else. Don't even get me started about LRGB as severe light pollution kills this off. I have now resorted to trying to add Ha data to OSC to enhance the image . The question is wether an OSC CCD will add anything to the equation. I think that despite my advice that the OP should stick with the DSLR for now there is a case,  that even a modern DSLR will have unacceptable amount of noise in particular as the temp goes up during the evenings, here I think a cooled OSC CCD will score highly as the nights get shorter and therefore the data needs to be collected during a couple of hours, hardly long enough for a full NB or LRGB imaging sesssion. The idea of a QHY8L ( large sensor for the price ) under these conditions coupled to a fast scope does start to look viable  . I might start saving for the KIT QUATTRO for the summer!!!

Regards,

A.G

[Skooby]

Thanks for all the info guys really have ltaken it on bored. But I will be looking into the qhy8l I will have a look at the 16hrc. Thanks though for your time

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[Skooby]

I've just seen that Aric 16hrc that's on astro buy and sell and it's free delivery aswel I'm seriously thinking of it? Is this a decent ccd then guys and how much was it new? I've decided I'm gonna get a ccd but I'm going to get a used unit and until I find one or get this 16hrc the dslr will do fine that sound ok guys?

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[swag72]

The Atik 16HRC is a good camera - It uses the 285 chip, which is something of a legend. There's no set point cooling, it just cools as far as it can. You want to check that this is in order. Perhaps get the seller to test it with a screen shot of the temperature it has reached, generally they reach about 20-25 degrees below ambient.

I notice that you were looking at either the QHY8 or now this Atik - Have you really considered the difference in the field of view you will get between the two? The Atik chip is very small in comparison - Check it with the fov calculator first. You may find that it's just too small for you.

[Zakalwe]

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm

Great URL^^

The 285 chip will fell very cramped after the DSLR. having said that I went from a QHY8L to an Atik 428 for two reasons:- 1) I wanted to learn mono/LRGB imaging 2) the FoV on the QHY8 was a bit too wide for me on my reduced Equinox80. I wouldn't mind getting a bigger mono camera, especially if I ever get a chance to try DSO imaging with my big SCT.

[Skooby]

Thanks guys for all your advice it's taken on board and I'm gonna take my time over my dissuasion thanks

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[glappkaeft]

With the QHY 8L and the 250 PDS the OP will be imaging at a crazy 1.25 arcsec/pixel. This is a rediculous value for the UK skies, perhaps more appropriate to some where in New Mexico or the Atacama desert with dry still air and superb seeing but not UK.

1.25 arcsec/px is not crazy at all. At premium sites they are have an median seeing of 0.7 arcsec FWHM or less and it is not uncommon to image at 0.2 arcsec/px. How bad do you think UK seeing is? I'm not a UK resident but AFAICT UK seeing is similar to Swedish seeing where 2.5 arcsec FWHM or better is not uncommon.

[Tim]

If your mount is steady you can go a lot deeper than 1.25 arc sec pixel, even in the UK. I regularly image at 0.43 with results that contain more detail and resolution than the theoretical seeing limits allow for.....

As for the original post, you have been given great advice I would stick with the DSLR for now until you can squeeze no more from it, I've seen awesome images from a 600D so that should keep you busy for a while In the meantime keep saving pennies in the CCD piggybank and get something that will be more suitable in the future, a mono camera with decent chip size, filter wheel and filters.

You can always add colour data from your DSLR to narrowband and luminance pictures from a mono CCD don't forget.......

Have you checked Jerry Lodriguss' latest DSLR results Btw?

http://www.astropix.com

Cheers

[lensman57]

1.25 arcsec/px is not crazy at all. At premium sites they are have an median seeing of 0.7 arcsec FWHM or less and it is not uncommon to image at 0.2 arcsec/px. How bad do you think UK seeing is? I'm not a UK resident but AFAICT UK seeing is similar to Swedish seeing where 2.5 arcsec FWHM or better is not uncommon.

Where I am it is blumming awful, 2~2.5is the optimum, any lower than that then the seeing will rob the detail off.Tonight I am trying at about 1.8 and I see what happenes and this is a good night for seeing.

A.G

[Skooby]

Thanks guys I'm thinking like Tim and use the dslr for a bit as FairPlay it's a good camera and save for a decent ccd mono I even thought about that canon 60da as that's built with the ap in mind? But your help has been brill thanks.

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[Zakalwe]

I can't see the rationale of blowing a wodge of cash on a 60A if it's only going to be used for astro. Its as expensive as a dedicated CCD and still has all the disadvantages of a DSLR (no cooling and lots of noise). I personally would go for a QHY8L. It's so much more sensitive than a DSLR and the lack of noise gives a real "WOW" moment if you're used to a DSLR. Plus it's cheaper so you could stick the other £200 into your back pocket. Or buy a guide camera, as guiding will give your images the same sort of quantum leap in quality as moving to a CCD does.

Dr. Robin has a 16HRC CCD camera in the classifieds at the mo. That might be worth a punt? Remember the chip is tiny compared to the 600D that you're using at present.

[Tim]

Nooooooooo, not the 60DA!

@AG, my friend in Hawaii has awful seeing too, funny as you tend to think of that sort of place as being better than the UK.

To compensate for oversampling the sky, I find lots of data helps the detail lost in the ether come through, and as long an exposure as the sky allows also stacks the odds in favour of the real detail coming out

[Skooby]

I just found the qhy8l on astro buy and sell http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=77921 pretty good price to only a year old!

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[Zakalwe]

That looks like a good price

[GuillermoBarrancos]

I see sale pending. So you bought it?

[Leveye]

http://www.astronomycameras.com/products/usb/dmk21au618as/