Help choosing scope

[SupahNube]

Hi all,

I just have a few questions about choosing a new scope for astronomy and need some advice.

I used to have a scope way back when but as i recall it just didn't perform well. The scope was a Tasco model similar to the Tasco Galaxsee i think it was a 4.5 inch reflector. I remember i couldn't see a thing through the eyepiece and ended up lobbing it into a corner and i never looked at it again. After a number of years i ended up getting back into the hobby and so i recently bought some Binos to get started. I got myself some Bresser 10 x 50 and a good pair of 20 x 80 astro binos which perform a lot better than my old scope did and so now i'm interested in getting better views, more stars and detail and DSO observing.

So my questions are

Would a larger Aperture reflector scope say a 4.5 inch Mak Perform better than the 3 inch binos? The obvious answer may be yes but I ask this because the optics in the binos are quite good, so i'm wondering would i end up having to fork out more cash for lenses if i got a new scope? I fear that it was the lenses in my first scope that caused me to lose interest in the hobby in the first place.

What scope around the €700 range will perform better than my 20 x 80 binos?

Would video Astronomy be a good way to go? I'm not into astrophotography and i dont like the idea of stacking and processing images However id like to know if i got a good CCTV cam and hooked it to a decent scope would that give me better views than i could get through the eyepiece?

Sorry bout the Nubeness of my questions.

Thanks.

[wookie1965]

Many people on here swear by the dobsonian a 200 or 250 would give you very good views of DSO`s better than your Bino`s as for CCTV many people hook up webcam`s to there scopes and get very good images from them better than eyepieces i cannot say but your best bet is to purchase a book called every photon counts that tells you every thing about imaging.

[SupahNube]

Hi Wookie1865

Thanks for the quick reply the book sounds good ill have a look at that before going on and buying a scope but your advice sounds good. Thanks

[wookie1965]

Hi Wookie1865

Thanks for the quick reply the book sounds good ill have a look at that before going on and buying a scope but your advice sounds good. Thanks

There will be plenty of other people who will give you advice as well you just need to take it all in and then weigh up your options with your budget. You are very welcome

[Schorhr]

Hello SupahNube, it really depends on what you want to see :-)

20x80 are great for a number of wide field or medium sized objects...

But for some tings the higher possible magnification of a telescope will be ideal.

Without the higher magnification some objects may not be visible as they are simply too small;

Some objects are faint and only when they are viewed larger, we'll note them, and also the telescope will have a higher resolution showing many stars from clusters, or magnify 200x to view the planets in a way, only a telescope can.

I think the best combination is using both.

I don't think you would be too thrilled with a 4 or even 5" telescope regarding galaxies, but for planets, some nebulae and clusters surely a nice size.

You could set up Stellarium (even though it does show over-realistic views) and play with different magnifications in the Ocular/telescope simulation. Set up one that has 20x and some with 40x, 70x, 100x, 200x, 300x.

http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Ocular_plugin

Click the Nebula/Galaxy-Button and look around a little.

Regarding video astronomy: It's amazing what even a small telescope will show with a inexpensive Samsung or PD-1.

But it will never be the same fascination as viewing something with your own eyes.

It boils down to if you want to invest the money of a tracking/goto mount and camera, or simply in more aperture and just get a larger dobsonian telescope.

The easy setup, larger aperture and lack of cables, power source and laptop do have a certain charm.

On the other hand, only a camera will show you colors of nebula in a spectacular way.

Check out Deepsky pedia to see how big/small different objects appear, observing reports with different telescopes, and so on http://www.deepskypedia.com/wiki/Messier_57

Also check if you can visit a star party or observatory to simply see with your own eyes what a larger telescope will show.

Your old telescope was not too bad by the way, the problem is the weak mount and the lack of any usable maps and decent eyepieces of those kits!

I wonder how many beginners lost interest because of those department store grade telescopes ;-)

[Uplooker]

Hi SupahNube,

You would certainly be getting more aperture with the 5" Mak eg.Skywatcher Skymax 127, than with the 80mm binos, but you would also be working at a greater focal length (f/l) of 11.8 and would there for not be getting the same wide field views that you currently enjoy with the binos. The Mak would not really be suited to DSOs, but would be great for planets and double stars.

A lot of people do video astronomy. I am not really up on it but believe people use the likes of Mintron cameras and get very good results. I am not certain, as i have never used any of the equipment, but I do not think you will enjoys the views as much via video

http://www.modernastronomy.com/camerasAstroVideo.html

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/193419-mallicam-video-demo/

Ian

[Schorhr]

Good point, with the mak it's not as much fun looking at larger objects.

The 130/650 newtons (Heritage, or as full tube on NEQ-3) will give nice wide field views though, and with the right eyepieces planets will be nice too. Though as the tube is a bit longer I don't like the combination on smaller EQ mounts.

I just wish the weather would clear up so I can finaly try again with the videocamera I would not want to trade the visual observations though. I got lost in technical issues instead of simply observing the sky last time...

[SupahNube]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies some really helpful stuff here.

I totally agree with you guys, I can only imagine that the simplicity of just looking through the eyepiece at the target gives far more personal and less manufactured results than looking on screen and messing around with settings and so on. However I can see the benefits of investing in a good Cam and Mount and a little less on the OTA as i can get the colour of nebula and have the option of enhancing the images using the sens up settings. I think i will just hold off a little longer and do a bit more reading on the video Astronomy as i don't fully understand whats going on with it.

It appears to me that a lot of people who get into video astronomy end up turning to Astrophotography, is this just simply the joy of photographing what appears on screen or the thrill of editing and processing the images? I suppose what i'm saying is do the VA cams such as the Samsung SCB 2000p

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/SAMSUNG-SCB-2000P-600TVL-DAY-NIGHT-SLA-550DA-5-50MM-BOX-CCTV-SECURITY-CAMERA-/171138144095?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item27d8a0d75f

give instant results or is there a lot of tweeking and stacking involved in order to get a good image on screen?

I love the idea of looking at the M42 on screen in colour with lots of detail but don't fancy looking at the screen stacking and processing images for 10 mins in order to get a good picture on screen.

I better do more reading on VA before going ahead.

Thanks for the Advice guys really helpful stuff

James.

[Schorhr]

Hello James,

well, it depends what you want to do. The resolution of the video astronomy cameras is low, the chip is little, and the high sensitivity results in a lot of image noise.

With a "real" camera you can just create more stunning images.

VA is good for live view, presentations, and if you like to tinker a little with imaging without requiring a more expensive EQ mount & guiding.

Unless you can get a CCTV with suitable Samsung chip for less at ebay, consider the PD(1) http://astrophoto.co.uk für 99gbp.

Unfortunately I am not the right person to give indepth advice YET, but it's amazing what these cameras can do.

I got the 170gbp Nexstar SLT mount and my 5" Newtonian, and even without perfect tracking I was able to see more from my light polluted balcony then with the eyepiece.

http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6/pd-m15-m77-col.png

The orange-y glow is due to the light pollution from street lights and the improvised focuser-adapter.

Even from a darker site, M15 or M3 won't show as much stars down to the center in 5"... The camera shows them even at lower sense-up setting. Amazing possibilities.

Hopefully I can get some clear sky and free time to finaly get Orion nebula and a few galaxies on my screen soon ;-)

If you want both, visual and VA, you could either go with a 5" and cheap tracking mount, or a 8" dobsonian an EQ plattform perhaps?

Though I found the exact alignment vor VA tedious, especially due to the longer focal length of my 10" it would be limited to notably less then the 20 seconds camera integration time would have allowed.

So it really depends on what you want, what you want to spend... For the mentioned 700€ a 8" dobsonian, 330€ AND a smaller Goto-Telescope for VA could be a possible way. It also depends on your location and how well you can transport the equipment to a dark sky, IMHO a 5" is the maximum back-packable, unless you get a more expensive travel truss dobsonian.

[Pig]

What a difficult question to answer easily.

I would consider the following :-

• Budget (including eyepieces)
• Portability / weight of mount - access to your usual viewing location- stairs
• Storage - Some scopes are huge
• Ease of use - Computerised or manual
• Application - Photography or visual
• Set up time
• Second hand value
• Binoculars are a great alternative.

Hope this helps

[SupahNube]

Ok this has shed some light on it for me guys, thanks a bunch.

I think i will consider an 8 inch truss dob for portability as i have a car and a dark site plus a spare storage room. I think ill start there and then invest in a good cam and a smaller scope for VA. ill shop around and see what the best prices are on an 8 inch truss dob.

Thanks a lot

[laowho]

Ok this has shed some light on it for me guys, thanks a bunch.

I think i will consider an 8 inch truss dob for portability as i have a car and a dark site plus a spare storage room. I think ill start there and then invest in a good cam and a smaller scope for VA. ill shop around and see what the best prices are on an 8 inch truss dob.

Thanks a lot

That sounds good. You'll be teasing out a lot more DSOs with the aperture. Most of these come in f/6, and with, say, a (reasonable) 36mm 72degree EP you'll get a very satisfying/respectable 2.14(?) degree true field of view at your dark sky sight. And if it happens to be an f/5 mirror then this expands to almost a 2.5 degree TFOV. Not too shabby.