Celestron x-cel or Baader Hyperion.

[Russty]

I am in the process of procuring some new EPs and have decided on either X-cels or Hyperions, ( I was mulling Celestron Ultima lxs over but I think I've decided against these). I will be mainly using these with my f5 200P but would also use them with my f11.8 MAK until I sell them both and upgrade, but that will be a fair way off. So are the Hyperions worth spending the extra £30 on (for a modular EP with an extra 10deg FOV) or am I best going for the celestrons and saving a few quid. Also would these EPs work ok with a 2x barlow? as then I would only need to get 3 to have 6 differing FLs or is it best to forget the barlow and use 1 EP for one FL.

Cheers Peeps...................

[Pete Presland]

i can not comment on the Celestron x-cel's unfortunately, but i have owned most of the Baader Hyperions.they are fine in slower scopes, but their performance is not so good in faster scopes.i would say the best value for money eyepieces you can get are the Televue plossls, excellent performance in all scopes, pin sharp across the field of view, barlow well, and are not too expensive!

[rory]

x-cel lx, would be my choice of those two. simply because of the feedback often read on the hyperions is soft toward the edges below f6. added to the point you make on price.

now some will defend the hyperions ,but im only stating what id go for.

so ,spanner in the works time. i used x-cel lx e/ps and thought they were good ,BUT i felt the bst explorers i swapped them for were as good and more comfortable AND cheaper.

[Russty]

I am in the process of procuring some new EPs and have decided on either X-cels or Hyperions, ( I was mulling Celestron Ultima lxs over but I think I've decided against these). I will be mainly using these with my f5 200P but would also use them with my f11.8 MAK until I sell them both and upgrade, but that will be a fair way off. So are the Hyperions worth spending the extra £30 on (for a modular EP with an extra 10deg FOV) or am I best going for the celestrons and saving a few quid. Also would these EPs work ok with a 2x barlow? as then I would only need to get 3 to have 6 differing FLs or is it best to forget the barlow and use 1 EP for one FL.

Cheers Peeps...................

i can not comment on the Celestron x-cel's unfortunately, but i have owned most of the Baader Hyperions.they are fine in slower scopes, but their performance is not so good in faster scopes.i would say the best value for money eyepieces you can get are the Televue plossls, excellent performance in all scopes, pin sharp across the field of view, barlow well, and are not too expensive!

Yes I thought about a set of TV plossls, I do own a 15mm TV plossl but I was trying to get something with a wider FOV .

[Russty]

Opps soryy for the above I was trying to multi quote to Rory and cocked it up.

Rory , Yes a friend has a number of BSTs, thing is I cant source them from suppliers, they only seem to be on fleabay.

[rory]

yes your right , but thats how skies the limit operates at the moment. im not sure as to why that is. what i will say is they have an impecable reputation for customer service. i dont know if anyone on here can give you some pointers if you dont want to go through the bay ?

by the way , the x-cel lx e/p's are very good ,im not slating them , but those bst's for under £50 are great.

the other thing you might consider ,is the latest rave for those "maxvision" 68* and 82* , they could well be a steal if they turn up to be meade swa clones.

http://www.explorescientific.de/eyepieces-c-8964.html?page=2&sort=1a

[John]

Skys the Limit have a website - I think you can order direct from them:

http://www.skysthelimit.org.uk/

The same eyepieces are sold by other dealers under other brand names but they are somewhat more expensive than the ones that Skys the Limit sell.

[Naemeth]

You can order via an email to Alan (from Skies the Limit) or eBay.

Personally, I'd go for either TV Plössls or TV Delos / Pentax XW - but this may be quite a big jump in price that you may not be ready to make .

[Russty]

Thanks for the spanner in the works Rory now I,m back up to a choice of 3, Ive just scoped (pardon the pun) the BSTs out on Skies the Limit, and they do seem very good value for money considering what other are selling the re badged ones for. AArghhh I hate making decisions. Jonathan no I wish I could afford TVs or Pentax maybe when the mortgage is payed off or my numbers come up. NB I could afford the TV plossl range but again I was looking for a bit wider FOV now if someone were to say there aint much difference between 50 60 or 70 deg FOV then I might be back up to 4.

[Naemeth]

Thanks for the spanner in the works Rory now I,m back up to a choice of 3, Ive just scoped (pardon the pun) the BSTs out on Skies the Limit, and they do seem very good value for money considering what other are selling the re badged ones for. AArghhh I hate making decisions. Jonathan no I wish I could afford TVs or Pentax maybe when the mortgage is payed off or my numbers come up. NB I could afford the TV plossl range but again I was looking for a bit wider FOV now if someone were to say there aint much difference between 50 60 or 70 deg FOV then I might be back up to 4.

I wish there was no difference, but there is. I can tell the difference between my 58 degree 4mm and my 45 degree 2.5mm EPs. But I prefer the 45 degree EP, because it's much better quality (Vixen LV). I'd personally go for a whole set of 2nd hand TV Plössls (building up slowly) because, to me, it's better to have 50 degrees 100% sharp than 70 degrees 70% sharp (effectively 49 degrees sharp).

I do understand about the money though, it's not an easy decision to make. Just know that it can get very expensive to buy and sell eyepieces (if bought new) until you eventually pay for premium as opposed to just buying the best at the start.

HTH

[Russty]

because, to me, it's better to have 50 degrees 100% sharp than 70 degrees 70% sharp (effectively 49 degrees sharp).

Good point.

[Qualia]

Not sure if it helps but I've had experience with a number of the aforementioned EPs in this thread.

I never liked the Hyperions, neither aesthetically or in terms of quality and without much attention, found they were easily outclassed by my Tal Plossls, X-Cel LXs, BGOs and TV Plossls.

The X-Cel LXs are mighty fine EPs and I consider them a big step up from the Hyperions. I've never looked through a BST, so cannot comment on their performance but from many accounts both here and at Cloudy Nights, it appears that the X-Cel LXs are basically clones of Meade's 5000 HD 60 albeit at different focal lengths. Whether that is true or not, you're onto a winner. In both the f/5 and f/10, the image through an LX was sharp and contrasty, with little light scatter. The AFOV was sharp from center to edge whilst eye-relief is extremely comfortable with the X-Cel's twist-up eye cup.

However, there is a downside to these EPs, a quality control issue. Folk have complained of little bits of plastic, a kind of debris within the actual EP itself but rather than pertaining to the series per se seems to be apparent in individual cases. For example, a fellow observer noted this debris in his 7mm whilst I found it in my 18mm which in either case is a real shame, for they are really nice EPs. It is here, then, at this junction that I'd strongly advise you not to buy X-Cel LXs secondhand, not unless you can try them before buying, and over a relaxed period of time to really make sure you don't have a dud.

Next up on the quality rack I'd place the Tele Vue Plossls and Baader Genuine Orthos. In the f/10 these EPs and the X-Cel LXs performed with equal excellence but when in the more demanding f/5 I noted that the BGOs and TVPs gave a darker sky background, higher contrast and on lunar and planetary work that extra oomph of sharpness. Curiously, I also found colour more enhanced in clusters and easy doubles with the BGOs and TVPs but this may be just a psychological thing.

However, there is a downside to these EPs. Eye-relief isn't that great in the BGOs which can make prolonged viewing very tiring and near impossible if you need to wear glasses whilst viewing. You'll get away with more eye-relief in the plossls (not so with the 8mm) but, then, the apparent field of view is still quite slight, with the BGOs running at about 40º and the Plossls at about 50º.

Now, on a side note, from my experience most of the DSOs I view (globs, galaxies, nebulae) is being done between 90x to 125x. Obviously, one can go higher on some of them but this range generally hits the mark. It is a kind of sweet spot in my own f/5. If you throw into that mix a finder-EP and a x2 barlow, most of your evening's viewing can be conducted with just 3 EPs.

For example, imagine we just purchase for your f/5.91 8":

25mm - 48x / 96x

14mm - 85x / 170x

10mm - 120x / 240x

Obviously, the 240x could only be used on exceptional nights of seeing, but you get the idea. Personally, if I was starting out anew with what I know now, I'd buy Tele Vue Plossls second hand at the focal length required and not worry too much about field of view (my own prejudice) and see if it fits the bill. If it does you have a keeper, if it doesn't you sell it on for just about the same price you bought it for. A win win situation.

After that - and as you can see you don't really need many TVPs - you may want to save for a premium-premium eyepiece in that given focal length, that is, an EP that can offer a similar performance to the TV plossls but perhaps with a more forgiving eye-relief or one offering a wider field, or a little or both.

I really don't think this stage requires any hurry and feel it is fair better to save over a period of time for one premium-premium EP, say, than filling in with 'stop-gaps' that in the end still leave us wanting more and losing out when we re-sale a year or two down the line.

[Russty]

After a long rethink and for future proofing I've decided to go for the black and greens, Going to sell some of my old guitars that are sat gathering dust and get a few Delos. Job done. Thank you all for your help.

[John]

After a long rethink and for future proofing I've decided to go for the black and greens, Going to sell some of my old guitars that are sat gathering dust and get a few Delos. Job done. Thank you all for your help.

You won't regret that decision

[Naemeth]

Excellent choice - you shouldn't have any problem selling them on if you change your mind .

[twotter]

You won't regret that decision

There is nothing wrong with a few dusty guitars, in fact I'm looking at three of mine right now. A quick play on each is like renewing a friendship and carrying on a conversation from the last time we 'spoke'