The title of a 70's British ATM book?

[wurzelmike]

Does anyone remember the title of an old 70's ATM book.

I think it was published in the UK in the late 70's. A very modest little book, where the author described how he made a small Newtonian telescope from a pair of shelves, and the back axle of a car

If anyone can remember, either the authors name, or the books title I'd be very grateful. It was a really lovely little book and I've tried searching for it both online, and in my own memory, but without luck so far.

Thanks in Advance,

Mike

[Glasspusher]

Could it by any chance be : Make your own telescope from everyday materials by Reg Spry.

It not I will have another guess

John

[billhinge]

If it is there is a copy on amazon, only £978 (+ £2.78p&P)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Your-Telescope-Everyday-Materials/dp/0953171604/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358974837&sr=8-1

[wurzelmike]

Thanks John, that's the one. I kept thinking it was by Roger (something)..........., gonna have to find myself a copy now

[wurzelmike]

If it is there is a copy on amazon, only £978 (+ £2.78p&P)

http://www.amazon.co...58974837&sr=8-1

And I'm sure worth every penny

[billhinge]

seriously though if you can't find one for sale then you could always take the ISBN to your local library and they should be able to order you a copy for loan from the British Library - I believe they have a copy of all UK published books in stock (I have used them before)

[earth titan]

How about here:

http://www.britastro.org/iandi/review09.htm

Typed by me on my fone, using fumms... Excuse eny speling errurs.

[Glasspusher]

Seems very expensive for such a small book, have a look here: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780283984754/Own-Telescope-Everyday-Materials-Spry-0283984759/plp

Hope you manage to find one at the right price.

John

[fwm891]

The book I started with is much more reasonably priced: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9389191045&searchurl=bsi%3D30%26kn%3Dtelescope%2Bmaking%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

'Handbook for Telescope Making' by N E Howard

[wurzelmike]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I had originally thought that bills price on Amazon was a typo I mean, really, asking a grand for a 42 page book on telescope making, seems really strange to me. Must be people out there wanting it a lot more than myself.

Then John's suggestion came with a 50 quid asking price - it must be more than me recalling the thing with affection.

Earth's Titian seems to be heading my kinda direction, 4.95 from the South Downs Planetarium trust. Sounds like a good 'un! But I think I'll look around a bit, have a 'JR Hartley' moment, it'll be a lot more fun when I finally comes across a copy. And so much easier now that I know the author and title.

And thanks for the suggestion fwm891 but I'm interested in this specific book 'cus, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far away....etc.

[Ajohn]

Howard's book is good and Texereau's adds a lot more. His book "How to make a telescope" can be downloaded of the internet archive. There is an Alt Az mount design in their as well. Having used both I would say it's basic idea is better than a dob for not much difference in effort.

I followed Texereau but used some of Howard's ideas and finish polish spherical with the mirror face up.

I think there have been numerous mentions of using a car differential / back axle to make a mount. Also steam pipe fittings.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HCoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=back+axle+telescope+mount&source=bl&ots=TFphDu999X&sig=WrO3baO5MlVq22-lVVuKcj-9HlY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6K8CUaS1AeGQ0AXc4YCgDg&ved=0CGwQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=back%20axle%20telescope%20mount&f=false

Or better maybe as you can read all of the pages http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1925PA.....33...77I

I would imagine that there are more on the web.

John

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[billhinge]

Howard's book was the first ATM book I used back in the day before the internet and people had to use the local library. Since then I've read or got most of them except the Spry book

By the way I wasn't the amazon seller, just an observation, I have seen it cheaper elsewhere

As an aside, one reason the amazon seller prices can be high is that there is a large commission and postage is limited to £2.80 regardless of postage costs so you need to factor that in

eg I sold a heavy £35 book for about £50 quid last year and it cost nearly £10 post via RM and I was the cheapest, but 900+ is excessive, probably means they don't have it and need to search for it?

[earth titan]

I have the Howard book. It is good, if a little antiquated now. I live old 'niche' books - just for collectings sake.

Typed by me on my fone, using fumms... Excuse eny speling errurs.

[wurzelmike]

Thanks for the links Ajohn, they're both really interesting, I've never used googles 'books' before, and it looks like it could be a lot of fun. As for the ADS thing, whenever I've tried to find something using it, it's always been way above my head Didn't think you could get stuff I could understand from that site. Good to know.

@bill - sorry it must have been my poor english, I knew you weren't the seller asking a grand for a copy of the book, but someone just trying to help. If people are really prepared to pay that kinda money for it, I'll start searching tomorrow It'll be one hell of an incentive, one slightly tatty copy for myself, and as many as possible for anyone else interested - Get your orders in early guys!

[wurzelmike]

Thanks Tom, but I'm only thinking about the Spry book because my local library had a copy when i was a kid, and I loved it, although no one took me seriously when I said i wanted to build a telescope from some planks of wood and the back axle of a car The posher library, further away, had the Ingalls books. But I loved the knock-it-up-in-a-weekend attitude of Reg Spry's book.

And it seems like the best place to find out about mirror making nowadays is the internet. The Stellafane site, that gets mentioned on here a lot, is a awesome resource.

[earth titan]

Thanks Tom, but I'm only thinking about the Spry book because my local library had a copy when i was a kid, and I loved it, although no one took me seriously when I said i wanted to build a telescope from some planks of wood and the back axle of a car The posher library, further away, had the Ingalls books. But I loved the knock-it-up-in-a-weekend attitude of Reg Spry's book.

And it seems like the best place to find out about mirror making nowadays is the internet. The Stellafane site, that gets mentioned on here a lot, is a awesome resource.

Oh I agree totally. The stellafane site is the best resource out their. I just love the 60s themes of the old books. The Howard book has a bloke in a suit and tie looking through a scope:

Typed by me on my fone, using fumms... Excuse eny speling errurs.

[wurzelmike]

Thanks for the picture Tom, but I think that's a kid, if I remember correctly. That's just how smart children turned themselves out, way back then. Kinda cute really, but thank god for Elvis

Here's a pic I came across a couple of days ago from an old '70's Fullerscope catalog. I remember thinking at the time that it was an 'export Newtonian' because there must be so few people in this country that could afford the thing.

I'd love to know how the mount compares to todays ones.

[wurzelmike]

p.s. sorry about the double pics, and Rubbish layout but it's my first attempt at uploading a pic

[billhinge]

As you know the fullerscopes mark iv mounts are highly prized but I agree, would like to see a comparison done against a modern mount

I have a mk iii and if I can get it motorised etc I'm sure it would be around the HEQ5 level ?

[wurzelmike]

I have a mk iii and if I can get it motorised etc I'm sure it would be around the HEQ5 level ?

The mark iii sounds like a fun project bill. I hope you upload some pics of it once you get around to putting a motor on it,.

[Ajohn]

Whoops - the other book I used was by Muirden not Howard. "Beginners Guide To Astronomical Telescope Making". Texereau's book is much better for people who want to make and or test a mirror. Not much has changed really. Plaster and tile tools have been used now and a number of other things instead of a glass tool. People press plastic mesh into laps to aid contact. Some use the Ross or Dall null test for figuring the mirror. Ronchi testing is popular but in my view mostly just adds to the cost and isn't that accurate anyway.

Some how I suspect few if any on here make their own mirrors. I'm contemplating resurrecting something I started some time ago and F3 mirror for a cassegrain. Can I do it - no idea but unless I try I will never know. Trying to make a small F3 mirror is generally reckoned to be extremely difficult if not impossible.

John

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[wurzelmike]

I have to admit, I'm one of the majority on here who have never made a mirror. I did once, a long, long ago purchase a kit from beacon hill with the intention of doing so, but time has past and except for a few hours of work on it, not much has happen. It's moved house with me many a time, with the thought 'one day' But things seemed to have changed a lot since folk started grinding with a six inch blank. Wondering, if they should stay with a f/8 for their first mirror, or chance going down to as fast as f/6 . It seems like pyrex itself, has, or is about to become extinct in the mirror making world!!!

And with all the Chinese telescope around, it seems sillier than ever to bother going to the trouble of grinding ones own 6" mirror. I've really couldn't find a reason to get the thing done, but I've heard a rumour of a Comet on its way. Maybe THE comet, and well I'm starting to think...maybe

[Glasspusher]

"And with all the Chinese telescope around, it seems sillier than ever to bother going to the trouble of grinding ones own 6" mirror."

Wurzelmike, some of us find the process of grinding and polishing a telescope mirror a highly satisfying and fulfilling activity in its own right. The fact that I can buy a cheap Chinese telescope is of no consequence, after all I would not have made it!

John

[wurzelmike]

Totally agree with you John, making a mirror, or even more lenses must be amazing. All that time, and effort, that goings into making each and every surface and then testing them to an unbelievable accuracy, unbelievable really. But the thing that really amazes me about mirror making, is the fact it uses such common everyday stuff, I mean who would believe that a disc of cement and a few kitchen tiles would make the main tool?

But for me the best bit would be using the finished mirror/lens and knowing I've made a good job of it. I mean, you can test it on the bench as much as you like, but I think a beginner would have to view through the thing, to believe how good the results can be.

I'm hoping to make my mirror sometime this year, spring time seem like a good time to start, But having read, on this site, how people are now starting their first mirror over 12", just amazes me. My little disc of pyrex looks smaller than ever

So I thought I'll challenge myself by making a sort focal length mirror, with a super high quality finish It's the only way I'll be able to motivate myself.

mike

[Ajohn]

There is a lot of mystique about tile tools. I used decent quality frost proof floor tiles but the blank I ground was pre formed so no rough grinding. They didn't wear excessively though so should be ok.

The 1st blank I bought was pyrex and it came with a plate glass tool. I gave up on it. The pyrex made a wonderful job of creating a sphere on the tool while remaining more or less flat. Pyrex is much harder than plate. These days people might go out and buy a number of rather large steel nuts and fasten them to the tool which might be made of plaster or concrete. There are all sorts of ideas about to help with that aspect.

Once the curve is roughed out people could try my own idea with the tiles. I used plastic padding between the tool and the tiles so that the tiles followed the curve in the mirror blank. It's also possible to cast a tool on the roughed out mirror with cling film over it with tiles in place or without. Without is probably the best option for making the lap rather than trying to make it over a tile tool. Small laps can be made of anything handy. Tools other than glass need a good coat of varnish so that they can be thoroughly washed to remove the abrasives. This is why I tried plastic padding.

Dental plaster is often mentioned which doesn't help much. A search for casting on youtube will bring up some casting plaster that can be mixed by the bucket load.

It's worth bearing in mind that people who make mirrors professionally usually wont go below F 4.5 and aren't really too happy about that. It gets harder and harder to do well as the F ratio gets faster. The old 6in F8 designs sounds crazy but a 6in F8 has a good quality view of over 2 degrees if the 2ndry mirror is big enough. At F5 it's about 1 1/2 degrees. Go to 12in F5 and it's down to just under 1 degree and so it goes on. The moral here really is don't make it any faster than you need too. Pentax eyepieces are the only ones that are reckoned to cope with F4. There are also serious complications with testing especially at smaller sizes. There is an incredible amount of rubbish on the web about testing. A tiny slit is easily the best option and the light source housing wants to be as small and shallow as you can possibly make it. That sets how fast a mirror can be made at any diameter. The housing can be bigger as focal length goes up. Favours big faster mirrors. Otherwise more kit is needed - pellicle beam splitter=£60. Some have used thin microscope cover slips but that can go wrong as they need to be pretty flat. I'm hoping to make a beam splitter out of cling film.

There are 2 worth while books on the internet archive for free. Texereau's which is easily the best on testing and also Howard's that includes cute tricks on making laps. Muirden's book includes some info on making other types of telescope and details of the Dall null test which makes more sense than the fabled Ross null test the way that seems to be done by even the "experts". There are details of the Dall test on the web but they suggest turning the lens the other way round - crazy. The Ross test could be arranged to be set up in the same way as the Dall but as no one has done the sums. I could scan the original Dall article if anyone is interested as it way way past copyright. He would want it freely available too. The housing for it has to be a certain size though which limits how short a focal length it can be used on without a beam splitter. Favouring bigger mirrors again. Texereau's ideas on a tester are going to be a good idea where any mirror needs mm or less movement accuracy for testing. It can be made out of plastic, wood or what ever. An elastic band can serves as a spring and movements can be read off a pointer on a rule. marks on a paper or via some sort of micrometer arrangement as he suggests.

Texereau makes some interesting comments about max size and urban telescope users as well. Also telescope and mount weights. Sound daft but actually there is some sense in them if some one wants a 1/10 wave entire telescope and to be able to use it effectively. Mirror thickness is a bit of a problem but fortunately telescopes are mostly used pointing up which helps if multi point floating mirror cells are used. They can sag under their own weight when testing though.

John

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