Upgading my telescope

[Charlie_132]

Fistly i should apoligise for starting this amount of threads, just got a lot of questions i want to ask haha ...

I'm thinking of upgrading telescopes, i currently have a 130p dob, i would like to start imaging properly (once i get the hang of it) i've taken a few photos using my blaclberry phone and had some good results.

what would a reasonable step up from the 130p be ?

my budget it £200

idearly i would like to see a big improvement on planets and mayble less fuzzyness on galaxies

is the celestron powerseeker 127eq reflector any good ?

Or would i probably be better buying a 200p dob ?

[E621Keith]

Since you have a extremely limited budget, you need to put your money into a tracking mount rather than a telescope. Consider a used GP2 mount such as this one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VIXEN-GP2-DUAL-DRIVEN-MOUNT-WITH-HEAVY-DUTY-2-INCH-STEEL-TRIPOD-/140852917996?pt=UK_Telescope_Mounts&hash=item20cb7cf6ec&_uhb=1#ht_906wt_1355

It will probably cost your entire budget, but you will be able to attach your 130p onto the GP2. Then you will have the option of using your 130p for planetary webcam imaging and then use a DSLR with a wide angle lens for deep sky. DSO imaging using a scope is beyond your current budget.

The 200p dob is undriven, you can do some planetary imaging on it, but it will not be easy. Avoid the Celestron Powerseeker, you 130p have better optics and that EQ1 mount is useless.

[Chris]

You might get a second hand 200p dob for around 200 pounds, I recken this is your best bet for seeing a big improvement on planets and DSO with 200 quid. However you mention imaging, which branch do you want to do? planetary or DSO's?, if its planetary your after you can get away with the above scope and a webcam (you can mod a ASDA cam to get started) , if its deep sky objects you want to image then you need to be able to accurately track the object for long exposures with a dSLR or CCD, this means most of your budget needs to go on the mount as accurate tracking is vital for good results, i.e no smeared photons. Obvioulsy a dob won't be up for this so you need a good motor driven EQ mount and a polar scope, the default advice for DSO imaging is to get an HEQ5 pro which are about 750 quid new or about 500 second hand. you can get started with a cheaper mount e.g a minimum of an EQ3 with motors but it would be a lot harder going trying to get good results and possibly quite frustrating unless you like to modify mounts:D

Anyway, I guess we need a bit more info about whats type of imaging you want to get into properly? 200 quid is quite a tight budget for an upgrade though:D

[Charlie_132]

i would only be doing planet imaging.

i have put varies phones held towards my eyepiece and taken photos (ive got a few in my gallery) and they come out nice enough for me.

i would like to be able to see more detail on a few planets though.

the 200p would be ideal i suppose, just when im no pro with the astronomy webcam i own (quicktime astrocam)

i would be more then happy with being able to hold my blackberry mobile phone to the eyepiece and take a photo of jupiter where i can see the band line and maybe small detail. (my mobile camera is 5mp)

i have managed to get very good pictures of saturn by doing this

ive just ordered a light green filter off amazon, maybe this will improve my jupiter viewing especially (aswel as mars and saturn)

so maybe i will wait for a clear night where i can view the planets using the filter until i shed out £200 on a 200p scope.

not sure if i have answered my own question there, could i get your opinions on the light green filter i have just ordered ?

is it a waste of time ?

[Chris]

A green filter should improve contrast thus show the banding and Great red spot more clearly:) as for the imaging if your happy with afocal phone imaging thats great and the the 200p should be an improvement, I'll have to check out your images:)

[Charlie_132]

is your sw 150p the same as the dob150p ?

i read somewhere the 150p gathers 77% more light then 130p , not sure how much light the 200p gathers (or how much bigger/how much more detail i will see compared to my 130p)

is galaxy shape visible in 200p (such as a whirlpool shape)

if i can hold my phone up to the eyepiece and then take a picture and find the bands i ll be happy, even if theyre faint.

i probably sound stupid saying that, but alot of peple i know arent that interested in astronomy, but i take photos on my phone then show them and they find it interesting that i have even managed to get a photo of saturn or whatever in such detail by using my 130p

[Ganymede12]

A 200P dob is 77% more light gathering than a 150P. I am getting a 200P dob second hand on Friday for £180. If you your main focus is imaging then I would go for the EQ mount.

[Chris]

This is my 150p its f/5 so fairly fast optics for DSO imaging which is my main interest.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ota.html

visually, I've only looked at a bunch of objects with it, as I've developed a bit of an obsession with binoculars for visual, I like the whole two eyes thing:)

however, what I did see I likes, m31 showed much of the extended disc, M57 was really nice and a definate clear ring shape, M13 was a bright ball, I could make out the shape of the dumbell as well. Not had it on planets yet its just sitting in the cupboard waiting to be mounted on my HEQ5 and pier in my observatory once its complete:)

I would honestly go for the 200p if you can affored it else it might not be enough of a jump to be worth while.

[hemihaggis1]

• charlie i commend you for having a go with your moblie phone .. its great just to get even an image of saturn using your phone .well done . but being honest ,you really need a motor driven eq mount to have a real go at astrophotography , an eq5 motordriven is what most folk would say is necessary , you would then need a ccd camera or a dslr a canon 1000 is a good afordable camera , you will just need the body , a reconditioned one is around £200 and an eq5 tracking mount can be found second hand for £500
  
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[Carbon Brush]

If the mount budget is £500, there is this...

http://www.firstligh...-5-gt-goto.html

Or if still available....

http://stargazerslou...d/#entry1642403

[Charlie_132]

oh okay then, i would like to go for the 200p scope as i only ever do astronomy from my back or front garden - sometimes do it through the window in my bedroom if is freezing cold outside (which i obviously couldnt do wih a 200p becasue of the size im guessing it would be awkward to move about)

an eq mount soundsgood, just expenvie with the cameras and all that.

i have a astronomy webcam but im ot getting on great wth it,finding it all too complicated.

i would like to be able to just put a camera into the part were the eyepiece goes + be able to just take a photo of what i would see through the 10mm eyepiece with a 2x barlow

starfox - did you manage to look at my photos from my blackberry 9970 ? ive got a few more id like to uplaod but the files are too big to put on here, i have to put them on facbook then sae the image on my laptop then post it, so its a ong process ... i ll do it when my green filter arrves and i maybe get a photo of neptune.

[Chris]

Good choice on the 200p:) I've tried the search function above to try and find your images but can't find them I'm affraid, I guess you could post a link in this thread so we can see what you've been upto:)

[Charlie_132]

oh, clck on my name and they should be in my gallery

i ll upload more nextweek hopefully

[Chris]

ah right I've never paid any attention to the gallery function on SGL before but its a really good idea I shall stick some of my pics up on my gallery when I've got a chance:)

I've had a look at your pics and I'm impressed for afocal shots with a phone, really liked the ones you've taken of Saturn and the Moon!

[Charlie_132]

the saturn and moon pics are good but takes ages to get a good picture, im aiming get some really good ones of jupiter when my green filter comes, i ll message you and let you know when theyre up

let me know when your ones are on here

[E621Keith]

is your sw 150p the same as the dob150p ?

i read somewhere the 150p gathers 77% more light then 130p , not sure how much light the 200p gathers (or how much bigger/how much more detail i will see compared to my 130p)

is galaxy shape visible in 200p (such as a whirlpool shape)

if i can hold my phone up to the eyepiece and then take a picture and find the bands i ll be happy, even if theyre faint.

i probably sound stupid saying that, but alot of peple i know arent that interested in astronomy, but i take photos on my phone then show them and they find it interesting that i have even managed to get a photo of saturn or whatever in such detail by using my 130p

The spiral structure of M51 is not visible in an suburban area with an 8". It will be a grey smudge. If you want to image any galaxy or other DSO, you will need long exposure imaging. Unless your camera can expose for several minutes and you have a mount to track the galaxy it will not be possible to image any DSO with it.

An entry level DSO imaging set up cost between £1500 to £2000. Mount will cost around £800, Camera will cost around £500, guiding will cost another £300, and scope will be around £400.

Planetary imaging is much cheaper.

[Chris]

the saturn and moon pics are good but takes ages to get a good picture, im aiming get some really good ones of jupiter when my green filter comes, i ll message you and let you know when theyre up

let me know when your ones are on here

Thanks and I will:)

[Ganymede12]

I have a PH047 Ultra Afocal Digital Camera support. It sounds fancy but all it really does is hold a digital camera to the eyepeice. You can get one from Scopes n' skies.com. I find mine helpful. It bwill work with any digital camera but some cameras are easier to position than others. My camera is quite awkward to shange the height of on it so I keep it alighned to my 10mm EP.

[Charlie_132]

The spiral structure of M51 is not visible in an suburban area with an 8". It will be a grey smudge. If you want to image any galaxy or other DSO, you will need long exposure imaging. Unless your camera can expose for several minutes and you have a mount to track the galaxy it will not be possible to image any DSO with it.

An entry level DSO imaging set up cost between £1500 to £2000. Mount will cost around £800, Camera will cost around £500, guiding will cost another £300, and scope will be around £400.

Planetary imaging is much cheaper.

would a 200p pick up the shape

of galxies by me putting in a 20mm lens and just looking through the eyepiece ?

im more interested im imaging planets then DSOs, i would like to see the galaxies with my own eyes down a telescope though

from midnight all the street lights in my town and surrounding towns are turnt off (other then on the odd road) so im guessing a 200p might be able to pick up the shapes of some galaxies ?

my green filter arrived this morning so im going to have a look at jupiter with it tonight in the early hours of the morning, i ll post my results if they are any better

[E621Keith]

would a 200p pick up the shape

of galxies by me putting in a 20mm lens and just looking through the eyepiece ?

im more interested im imaging planets then DSOs, i would like to see the galaxies with my own eyes down a telescope though

from midnight all the street lights in my town and surrounding towns are turnt off (other then on the odd road) so im guessing a 200p might be able to pick up the shapes of some galaxies ?

my green filter arrived this morning so im going to have a look at jupiter with it tonight in the early hours of the morning, i ll post my results if they are any better

It might be possible to pick up the outline, but I don't expect much more. However, I don't know how dark your sky gets when the street lights are off. The street lights are on where I live and I can only see the core of galaxies. I usually just give up on galaxies when I observe at home and only observe them when I go to a dark site.

[Charlie_132]

oh okay then, i ll probably try a 200p when i get the money

ive found this - http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/75447/show.html in a shop near me, i dont know if its more or less powerful then my dob 130p ... im guessing its less powerful though ?

[Chris]

the saturn and moon pics are good but takes ages to get a good picture, im aiming get some really good ones of jupiter when my green filter comes, i ll message you and let you know when theyre up

let me know when your ones are on here

I've put a few pics up in my gallery to begin with and I'll add some more later:). oh yes I would avoid the Jessops 80mm Newt as the optics and mount will be much worse than your 130p I should imagine for 40 quid, you get what you pay for in this game I'm affraid.

[Charlie_132]

ah yeah i thought so, just the size of that scope compared to mine threw me off a bit, it looked a little like the 150p dob, but yeah i ll stick to my original plan

just had a look at the 3 photos youve uploaded, theyre amazing! how comes when you take a photo you see the galaxies like that but you cant see them like that through the eyepiece ?

is dso imaging very difficult ?

what sort of equipment do you use/ what price range ?

[Chris]

Thanks:)

the reason you see much more detail in DSO's with imaging than the human eye is because the CCD or CMOS sensors in cameras makes a lot more use with the incoming light from these distant objects. The human eye is not very sensitive in comparison (quantum efficiency of about 1% compared to 99% for a CCD) Also when imagine DSO's you keep the camera shutter open for a long time in total therefore a lot of light builds up to form the picture on the sensor, the human eye doesn't allow light to build up to form a picture to the extent that a camera chip does.

DSO's imaging can become quite involved and expensive if you let it and a lot of people would allow a budget of 1000 to 2000 pounds for an imaging rig. However, a number of us on here do it a lot cheaper but perhaps with more hardships along the way. My current imaging scope, mount and camera all cost me not much more than 600 pounds second hand so it can be done more cheaply. I think the best way to get into it is to start with a cheap second hand Canon DSLR camera with a kit lens e.g. 18-55mm, this will allow widefield pictures of the sky upto 30 seconds long before trailing stars become too obvious caused by the Earths rotation, I started this way with my Canon 1100D on a fixed tripod and I did some fixed shots of constellations and tried startrails too.

When getting into serious imaging the most important thing to spend your money on is a good motor driven mount to accurately compensate for the Earths rotation when taking long exposures, the recommended minimum is often said to be the HEQ5 pro (750 pounds new 500 second hand) sounds expensive I know but its actually very cheap for what your getting, I would like one mines the old basic HEQ5, still ok thoough its a sturdy thing .

Basically how serious DSO imaging works is that you take a number of exposures e.g 2 minutes then use software to stack them ontop of each other so the signal to noise ratio is vastly improved, then you use some more software like PhotoShop to pull out the detail in the image.

DSO imaging is the best hobby I've ever found becasue its profound, artistic, scientific, and will take a lifetime to master:D

Chris

[Charlie_132]

£600 to get into dso imaging does sound expensive, but a very good thing to be able to do.

if your 150p dob can pick up that detail with a camera .. could my 130p scope pick up that amount of detail ?

could you possibly do a few jupiter shots using your 150p without editing it much and show me ? im sort of tempted to upgrade to a 150p scope as its a lot smaller/easier to carry about and store then a 200p ?

the only thing i dont understand is someone could have 20pictures stacked on top of each other (im guessing theyre stacked by using a program to locate the image in the centre of the screen, so you dont need to film the galaxy bang in the middle of the camera and keep it there ?)

but then its put into photoshop to add detail ? is that not like just drawing it yourself ?

ive been up since 5am, trying to bring myself to go out into the garden .. its pitch black and theres looooadsss of stars out .. just seems sooo cold! im going to wait til 6/6:15 when it gets a little lighter then go outside.

tonight(saturday) is ment to be clear where i live from 9pm - 3pm, i ll hopefully go outside at 1am tonight and get another pic of jupiter using my green filter ... but i guess i ll see how it goes in 30mins or so !