Very cheap PGR Firefly 0.3 mono on ebay

[SnakeyJ]

Thanks Cath - hopefully I can get a go with this tonight. Haven't experienced any loss on connectivity/hangs with the firefly and firecap - other than when I've disturbed the USB cable, though I do find that the connection on the mini usb socket on the camera is a little twitchy (mine is currently all taped together to prevent the issue). I've recently done several 3-4hr sessions with no hangs/disconnections. On the memory leaks I haven't really looked, so can't comment.

The QHY I can manage, perhaps next month - though am currently looking at a new house/move (nice garden for an obs) so things may have to take a back seat for a while longer. The cooled CCD will have to take a little longer to be honest even at s/h prices this is looking beyond my current means!

What I do want to try with the FF is screening and heatsinks for some of the other ICs on the board - to see if I can get a reduction to read noise. I could push the CMOS temp down further (perhaps by adding another peltier stage), though think read noise is probably the biggest target having comfortably achieved -10C.

[Cath]

-10C is very good! .. the little imaging sensor seems to generator quite a lot of self heat.

That -10C must really make a big difference!

[Rihard]

I have great problems with the FireFly MV camera .. Their drivers are really quite buggy, lots of memory leaks from them and the driver quite often looses connection with the camera. I have thought about emailing FireFly about their driver problems but I haven'y got the enthusiasm to struggle with manufactures like that anymore.

Hi Cath,

What you are doing is very interesting.

Not sure if this can be of any use: I use the Firefly Mono on Windows XP 32 bit running on a resources-limited Virtual Machine (I gave it only 2 GB of Ram) on my Mac and I never experienced any of those issues when capturing with the original software. When I capture at high fps I've noticed sporadic hangs and a few lost frames, but that looked more like a hang of the whole computer. The CPU heats up and the battery goes down fast when capturing and that looks pretty regular when I use CPU intensive software, but other then that I was surprised at how well this little camera and its software/drivers worked for me, in comparison to the usual old, buggy and ugly software / drivers that always come bundled even with big brands of dSLR cameras or with webcams.

I do get errors, however, whenever I use it with Sharpcap. It does give me errors before I start the capture, meanwhile, after or just when I quit the software. However the cam doesn't just disappear or disconnects as in your case.

Just a generic supposition: in your case, could the issue be related to something like availability of resources on your computer, or an issue with the USB bus, its drivers, or the drivers of other devices (internal or external) that use the USB bus? Or maybe Windows is just being wicked?

Can I also try your App??

Regards,

TziuRiky

[Cath]

Hi TziuRiky

Well, I have an i7 quad core 2.6GHz with 3GByte of RAM, I would have thought it was fine, I have no problems using WDM cameras etc, just the FireFly. I have 2 * Windows XP Pro 32-bit (SP3) installs and a Windows 7 64-bit Ultima on my PC and get the same FireFly driver/camera problems in each OS. The PC has 8 USB2.0 ports, one of which has my wireless mouse plugged in, another has my wired keyboard plugged in, apart from that all other USB ports are free.

What I sometimes have to do to get my camera working again is to reflash it - a pane in da bum it iz.

I do have an old Intel P4 1.4GHz laptop but that only has a USB1.1 port, no USB2.0 port.

I guess it could be a hardware problem but I have no other PC I can try it on.

I've tried FireCapture with the FireFly MV camera and that has exactly the same problems (FireFly driver crash etc).

Sure you're welcome to use the software I've done anyway you like. The download link is as above in previous message.

Let me know if you have any problems at all with it, it's still very much work in progress, wasn't really meant for anything but my own use but thought may as well share it if anyone's interested.

[Rihard]

Hi TziuRiky

Well, I have an i7 quad core 2.6GHz with 3GByte of RAM, I would have thought it was fine, I have no problems using WDM cameras etc, just the FireFly. I have 2 * Windows XP Pro 32-bit (SP3) installs and a Windows 7 64-bit Ultima on my PC and get the same FireFly driver/camera problems in each OS. The PC has 8 USB2.0 ports, one of which has my wireless mouse plugged in, another has my wired keyboard plugged in, apart from that all other USB ports are free.

What I sometimes have to do to get my camera working again is to reflash it - a pane in da bum it iz.

I do have an old Intel P4 1.4GHz laptop but that only has a USB1.1 port, no USB2.0 port.

I guess it could be a hardware problem but I have no other PC I can try it on.

I've tried FireCapture with the FireFly MV camera and that has exactly the same problems (FireFly driver crash etc).

Sure you're welcome to use the software I've done anyway you like. The download link is as above in previous message.

Let me know if you have any problems at all with it, it's still very much work in progress, wasn't really meant for anything but my own use but thought may as well share it if anyone's interested.

That's a pretty good CPU, in this case I doubt is a resource limit problem. Mine is only a Core Duo shipped in 2008

It could still be a HW problem with the USB bus or with the way the Windows drivers access it, but the fact that you need to flash it again at times is very weird - could it be an issue with your own Firefly? As you do not have a different machine with USB 2.0, you may run a test with Linux (maybe Ubuntu installed into an external memory).

You could also try disconnecting all other devices from the USB port (you could move the mouse cursor via remote from the old laptop).

My old Acer laptop had some problems that caused the SD Card Reader (internally connected to the USB bus on the motherboard) to just "disappear" from the devices list at random times, or not to read the inserted card. It would even stop working in the middle of reading or writing files on the card. The issue would always occur with Windows XP 32, Vista 32 / 64, and Windows 7 32, but it never occurred on Linux or BSD (yes, one OS is too much mainstream for me ) , this told me that the issue was probably with the drivers, as all drivers, the generic microsoft ones, the acer ones and the original intel ones caused the same issue.

I also had a serious issue with the integrated intel graphic card (fatal BSOD's when playing videos, videogames, or when connecting external hard disks to the USB port). This actually improved with updated drivers but still occurred every now and then - but again only on Windows and not on Linux or BSD.

Another scenario could be a glitchy RAM module - I've seen that before, hardware testing tools can find that out (some motherboards include a RAM testing app inside the CMOS configuration utility).

Thanks, I will try the software as soon as I have a chance and I will let you know. Any special requirements to run it? I.e. libraries, OS version etc. ?

Clear Skies

Riky

[Cath]

Thanks, I will try the software as soon as I have a chance and I will let you know. Any special requirements to run it? I.e. libraries, OS version etc. ?

All you need do is keep the DLL files in the rar file with the .exe file I think being as you already have the FireFly drivers installed etc.

You may need to installed the MS MFC redistribution packages if you haven't already got them installed on your PC (the included vcredist_x86.exe for 32-bit or the vcredist_x64.exe for Windows 7 64-bit OS). I've yet to do a proper installer for the software.

I've only tested it in Windows XP 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit, seems fine (apart from the FF driver/camera problem).

[SnakeyJ]

Cath,

I only got this up and running tonight as much going on yesterday after my house hunting trip - but very impressed. I will try and use this tomorrow evening for some real captur e, weather allowing and see if I can get something back. The layout is excellent and so far unable to cause any hangs/crashes with the firefly, inbuilt hp webcam or my TS b Planetary Imager.

Will try and get a proper report back over the weekend, but first impressions very good. Interestingly the setting the mains frequency to 50 rather than initial 60hz reduces a lot of lines/noise in the preview screen. The other finding worthy of note is that your application can properly control my TS PI (something that niether Amcap, Sharpcap or Firecap have managed to control!)

[Cath]

Hi Jake

Thanks for the report lol.

I'm currently modifying the WDM camera code as I bought one of those £3 MS XBox live cameras off ebay this week just to see if the software works with it. Found out I need to update my WDM code to properly work with more WDM cameras, still learning DirectShow as I go, but getting there slowly.

I presume the 'TS PI' is a WDM camera? .. not sure

I've also made the camera sliders longer as they are just too short to make fine adjustments with the mouse.

Well, I'd try it out BEFORE you rely on the software for a nights capturing, it is still very beta after all. Don't want too cause upset with you possibly loosing a nights data due to a problem

If theirs anything you find confusing or would like changing just let me know. I've yet to add help to the software.

[SnakeyJ]

I'm currently modifying the WDM camera code as I bought one of those £3 MS XBox live cameras off ebay this week just to see if the software works with it. Found out I need to update my WDM code to properly work with more WDM cameras, still learning DirectShow as I go, but getting there slowly.

I presume the 'TS PI' is a WDM camera? .. not sure

Well, I'd try it out BEFORE you rely on the software for a nights capturing, it is still very beta after all. Don't want too cause upset with you possibly loosing a nights data due to a problem

If theirs anything you find confusing or would like changing just let me know. I've yet to add help to the software.

Yep the TS Astro PI is using the WDM driver, but I really can't make it play with any of the other normal capture programmes.

I'm going to try again to get some reasonable Saturn capture with the FF and Firecap first, but provided the cloud holds off will switch over and try with your AstroCapCam & FF before swapping cameras to try the TS Astro PI. Will have to see how things go, but looking forward to the attempt.

Haven't managed to play with my two xbox cams so far, but sure I'll get around to this at some point - thinking I get an adaptor to fix one to the finder and possibly even the polar scope to save my back and wet knees

[long_arms]

Hello,

Feel like I'm barging in a bit. I would love to try out your software too Cath if thats okay?

I've been pretty pleasantly surprised with what I've achieved with the firefly recently with some cheap rgb filters.

The noise is obviously an issue and the low gain in general, with a 3x barlow in my 200p the blue channels are pretty empty....you can just about make out a planet in the avis

I just wanted to say I too have the occasional error and dropped frames but only at high frame rates. I only use flycap...never tried anything else in fact.

I am tempted to blame the camera/drivers whatever rather than the laptops shortcomings, although I dont know anything about that sort of thing

My recent attempts are my latest uploads on my flickr here. www.flickr.com/photos/90652641@N04/

In fact....every photo on my flickr was taken with the firefly and my 200p!!

Dan

[Cath]

Hi Dan

Sure you can! .. it's there for anyone who has the desire to try something new.

I updated the drivers on my PC a few days ago for their beta ones, it worked a little better for me - for a while. Hopefully they will improve their drivers/firmware in time.

I've updated it again so you may want to download it again (same link as previous message). Let me know if you have any problems etc.

Cath

[VectorRoll]

Hello. I am new here and when searching about this camera and the FireCapture Software this thread popped up. Thanks to this discussion I found out how to get the camera to work in FireCapture do to it needing the FireCapture2.dll file. The FireCapture site mentioned replacing the FlyCap2.dll which actually did not help. What you all mentioned here work instead. So I wanted to thank you all for mentioning that.

So thanks...

I did also have a question though. Nothing to bad. I am just wondering what you all did to get the camera to fit the Telescope. I have the same Camera from the same EBay seller and this FireFly MV camera does not come with a C/CS Mount like there regular versions that Point Grey has for sale. This comes with a M12 Mount. In fact Point Grey does not even sell that C/CS Mount that is on their regular version of this camera. As they put it, this camera is a custom camera made fore a certain Customer. The box for the camera even says custom on it. I contacted Point Grey today to see if they sold that part just to try and make it easier for me to use a C-Mount to T-Mount 1.25" Adapter that I have. Needless to say that since they told me they do not sell that part to I have to figure out another way to attach my adapter. The company is real nice by the way. The answered my emails really fast and were very polite. They just do not sell that particular part to the public. Go figure.

Also this camera's Case or Housing does not have threading to attach the adapter to. It is just a little bigger opening. But the Adapter does sit flush on it. So I am wondering what you all did. I was planing to either glue or use a double sided tape to get this adapter attached my camera housing. I am wondering if there is a better way.

So how did you all attach the camera to an adapter?

One other question I have is this. Are you all also using the M12 6mm MicroLens that comes with the camera? Or did you unscrew it and just use direct light to the sensor through the scope, with say an IR/Cut filter?

I am new to using cameras with my scope and am just wondering. With my DSLR I have not used any other lenses and eyepieces with it. I have only attached my adapter so the light can hit the sensor directly. I know that you can use a variable eyepiece projection adapter, but I have yet to do so. Since I am new I am trying to learn as much as possible.

[riklaunim]

Webcam (Philips) adapters fit that lens thread (remove the lens, screw in the webcam nosepiece adapter).

[VectorRoll]

So that is like and M12 to 1.25" adapter? Thanks I did not know about that. In fact it did not even cross my mind to look for an adapter like that. I learned something new today.

Thanks again for that info. I will search the net for one and see if any of my regular vendors offer it.

[SnakeyJ]

Youll find one on ebay - just search for spc or toucam 1.25 adaptor - otherwise a good astronomy shop should b able to source. Worth getting a uv/ir cut to keep the dust and dirt of the cmos. This camera also works well with ir-pass for lunar, venus and jupiter.

[VectorRoll]

Thanks for the heads up. I found a decent one from a vendor that I use that only cost me $14. Well actually around $18 if you include Shipping.

I do also have an LRGB filter set coming in the mail that I ordered early this week. I went with Meade for the set as I can not really afford a complete Highend Filter Set as of yet. I heard that the Meade Set actually works alright, not as good as the Highend Filters but still good enough for beginners. Since I am new to this I thought that I would give them a try and see how I like it. I eventually plan to get better filters as time passes. I am looking for 2" filters mostly for use with my 2" eyepieces. The next one on my list is an O-III filter. The good ones cost a bit so I am trying to time my purchases with my PayDays.

Do you have any tips when recording with this camera? Like certain settings or processing tips.

[SnakeyJ]

It doesn't do long exposure, and think the max exposure is .8 secs with the ascom drivers, which makes it quite limited for DSO and don't think the OIII will be useable. however the LRGB should be good for planetary and IR-PASS useful as stated above.

I really like Firecapture, though it is java based and requires quite a decent laptop for recording - it's nice as the developer has given easy access to the camera registers, providing gain multipliers from the standard 12dB to in excess of 30dB. Though as demonstrated earlier in this thread the cmos gets very noisy above 24dB.

[SnakeyJ]

Apologies Vector Roll - my references to gain/noise are actually from a parallel thread on cooling the Firefly -

Much will depend on aperture, but my feeling is that this camera is suitable for bright planetary and solar only and that Saturn is pretty much the limit at 8" aperture of my SW Expl 200P - which is pretty much what Riklaunim (Piotr) is saying above.

Definitely recommend a read of the firefly review on his site - he also has some very useful information of a very wide range of web, industrial and astro cameras/sensors and some exellent articles and guides.

[VectorRoll]

Thanks for the info. I will take a look at that FireFly review.

I'll also read over that thread on Cooling to see what I can learn from it as well. I know a little bit about cooling as one of my hobbies is building PC's and Cooling is one of the main things in that.

My scope is a 10" dob. I am in the process of making a EQ Platform for it so that I can do a little tracking with it. Right now I am limited in the exposure time for my images because I do not have any tracking capability. I have been taking few sec stills with my DSLR. Without Filters of course. I need to get some Filters for the DSLR as well, but I want 2" Filter for it. So far I have only been focusing on Planetary and Solar Images. I have not really tried any DSO Images with the exception of a few Stars. When I do try some more DSO Images I will be using my Pentax DSLR. It is a Pentax K100D.

The O-III Filter I am thinking about getting is for my Visual Observing. I spend most of my time doing Visual Observing and I have been wanting to get a filter for some Nebula. Like the UHC and O-III. I may get more use out of a UHC but I personally want to get a O-III Filter first for some reason.

Thanks again for all the info.