First scope & possibly spacecamfor young skywatcher - advice please!

[Geesus]

Hey all,

Just thought i'd ask some advice before biting the bullet and buying my first scope... I'm a (VERY) poor student, and at the very most want to spend 150 on my first scope... I'd like something that i'll be able to see everything from the moon and planets, especially saturn and jupiter, to DSOs (particularly the orion nebula in more detail, andromeda, etc...)

I've been looking around, and it seems like I'd be best suited to a reflector scope, so i've been looking at those mostly... The Skywatcher Heritage 130p Flextube seems a very popular choice among this forum, so I was leaning towards that, but the celestron astromaster 130EQ was in my price range as well and has an EQ mount - although the finder scope seemed to be awful?

I love the look of astrophotography, and would l'd love to have a play with a webcam (I gather that the Philips SPC 900, or SPC 880 flashed to 900 firmware seems to be the favourite, but seems to be unavailable?) What else is popular and easy to use, given that I don't want to break the bank JUST yet, and with this in mind, what would you recommend as my first scope ? I'm looking to order tonight in the hope that it arrives before the bank holiday .

Many thanks in advance and clear skies to you all,

Geesus

[onesmallstep]

Hi and welcome to the forum

The Heritage 130 is a popular scope with SGLers and reflectors are good all-rounders. You will get more replies recommending all types of scopes but given your budget and needs the H130 seems to fit your needs. As for astrophotography, I have no experience with AP but you would possibly need a separate scope to use as an imaging setup as the H130 isn't really suitable.

What I CAN suggest is that you look for a local astronomy club and see if they are holding a public astro session (possibly for the transit of Venus or a bank holiday star party). This way you can try before you buy. Type 'fedastro' into a search engine - this is the Federation of Astronomical Societies. Follow the Member Societies link and filter by county.

HTH!

[damnut]

HI Geesus,

I am afraid that for £150 budget you are going to have to lower your expectations!

You have some direction so I would advise you first to get a pair of binoculars and a copy of 'turn left at Orion'. Get used to the sky, find your way around the sky. Also go to your local astro group meetings, they will be delighted to let you view the heavens through their kit.

You can then have a considered opinion on where to spend your cash!!

If fingers must order try the 150p dobsonian, whch at £203 is over budget but gives more bang for buck.

Good Luck

ps crossed in ether with good advice from post above.

[Geesus]

Hey Damnut - I've already got a pair of binoculars - just hoping to get something able to show me a little more detail until I know if i'll still be skywatching in a years time! Will definately check out Turn Left at Orion though - seems to be very popular!

Geesus

[JamesF]

I think I'd agree that the Heritage 130 is probably the best you can get for the budget you have. Given a modded Xbox camera or Lifecam you could probably do a bit of planetary and lunar imaging with it though it would be tricky. DSO imaging is just not viable on that small a budget though.

The EQ mount of the Celestron scope won't be up to use for astrophotography either, so there are few advantages of going that route. It would probably make tracking the planets a bit easier for imaging, but that's about it.

On the budget you have, I think you should concentrate on what's good for visual use and if you can use it for a bit of imaging too, all well and good.

James

[Geesus]

Many thanks james! - I was pretty confident that the heritage 130p would do the job quite nicely, but some experienced advice is always very reassuring!.

I'm not looking for amazing astroimages at the moment, just something basic that I can record, run through registax and then show to friends! Do you/anyone know if anywhere still sells the SPC880?

Geesus

[JamesF]

The chances of finding an SPC880 or SPC900 for a reasonable price at the moment are not far off non-existent. The last one I saw on ebay went for nearly £130. I really wouldn't worry about it. If you're really on a tight budget then a modded Xbox Live camera can serve for an introduction to webcam imaging, with the Lifecams perhaps a little better, but more expensive and more difficult to mod.

James

[onesmallstep]

Hi

http://stargazerslounge.com/showthread.php?p=2320966#post2320966

You may want to check out this thread about cheap webcams.

[rowan46]

wot he says

[Naemeth]

Skywatcher Heritage 130P will serve you well! (Although AP may be difficult, the Xbox webcam technique I've heard can produce some pretty good results.) It's also right on budget, and is an excellent starting scope.

[Geesus]

Okay, thanks for all the help! I'm not after magazine quality photos, I don't really care how they turn out as long as it's identifiable .

Now just another quick question...

I've been flicking through numerous threads about webcam AP, and can't seem to work out weather I'm going to need a barlow lens or not - I've seen the SW Heritage 130p for £140 posted on First Light Optics, and again on pulsar and skopesnskies for £145...

Difference is that pulsar and SNS both include a free 2x barlow...

Is it worth the extra £5 or not? I've been hearing some pretty bad things about SNS, but if the barlow is important, what are peoples opinions on Pulsar?

Many thanks!

Geesus

[Naemeth]

Okay, thanks for all the help! I'm not after magazine quality photos, I don't really care how they turn out as long as it's identifiable .

Now just another quick question...

I've been flicking through numerous threads about webcam AP, and can't seem to work out weather I'm going to need a barlow lens or not - I've seen the SW Heritage 130p for £140 posted on First Light Optics, and again on pulsar and skopesnskies for £145...

Difference is that pulsar and SNS both include a free 2x barlow...

Is it worth the extra £5 or not? I've been hearing some pretty bad things about SNS, but if the barlow is important, what are peoples opinions on Pulsar?

Many thanks!

Geesus

With the supplied 10mm, Saturn is about the size of a small pea (this is in light polluted skies, comparable to 9 LP on Stellarium, maximum setting), I would personally prefer not having the Barlow because it will probably be of poor quality, and I myself would prefer to go with a TAL Barlow (which is around £35-£40). You will get "Wow" views with Saturn and great views with the Moon with the supplied EPs, and in a few months Jupiter will be out too. I think these few months would be enough for you to wait and decide what you want to go with next, whether it is a webcam, a Barlow or another EP.

[JamesF]

I really wouldn't worry about the kit Skywatcher barlow. It's not a quality item by any stretch of the imagination. You might actually find that it comes with the FLO scope anyhow, as they may well all be shipped from the same place regardless who you order from.

As for SnS, well, sometimes they seem fine and sometimes they're shockingly awful. I have an order for something I couldn't get anywhere else that was confirmed on 11th May and I've heard nothing further about it yet

James

[dave armeson]

If you can push your budget to £195 then there is only ONE option - TAL 1. This is telescope available from Harrison Telescopes . You'll find them online. The problem with virtually all other sub-£200 scopes is the mounts and hollow tripod legs - they ALL shake when trying to focus - this is a misery and is responsible for turning loads of people off astronomy.

This scope is built like a tank, has fabulous optics but most of all a SOLID, STEADY metal pier and mount which is a delight to use. As an observer of 30 years standing this in my opinion is the Ultimate starter scope.

Check it out.

By the way - price includes next day delivery.

[Geesus]

Dave, you're a horrible person.

That's a lie, I'm very grateful for your opinion, but you've REALLY made me want to spend FAR more than I'd hoped...

Time to check the bank balance to justify it?...

EDIT - Surely I'd be better off with a 130mm mirror rather than a 110mm, and a dobsonian mount is just as stable? Opinions please!

Thanks!

[badgerchap]

Hi Geesus!

I'm also a student, so I feel your pain buddy!

I have finally been able to move up to astrophotography, but it has taken a long time, which was actually a good thing. My very low end set up has ended up costing around £600 and it's pretty much the bare minimum, but even this would be far too much to start off with!

I first had a Skywatcher 130M which was an excellent starter and served me well. I then moved onto a second hand dobsonian from UK Astrobuysell which sorted me out for a good few years. If I hadn't had these first, there really would have been no point in buying an astrophotography set up. It takes time to learn the sky, learn how to see (sounds silly but you'll learn what I mean!).

I would put off AP until you're ready - believe me after a couple of visual sessions, you'll know what I mean. Astronomy can be tricky, and you'll get the best out of it if you take your time!

Hope you enjoy your new hobby,

Badgerchap

[Geesus]

Hey Badger - If you're a student there's a good chance you're having exams around now, and if so good luck!

I'm not expecting amazing pictures, just something a bit more sturdy and reliable than holding my phone near/on the eyepiece... I've tried that before with a friends scope and achieved some distinguishable results, but most just end up a fuzzy blur =/.

Would you say a dobsonian would be better and more sturdy than the tripods you can get for the same price?

Geesus

[badgerchap]

A dob is fairly sturdy - but things move in the eyepiece, and so you wont be able to track - but that's no issue for a new starter in my opinion!

Have a look at my blog (url in signature) to see my first tentative results with my new setup - might give you an indication of what you can expect!

Exams finished on Monday - roll on 4 months off!

What are you studying?

[AndyH]

If you can push your budget to £195 then there is only ONE option - TAL 1. This is telescope available from Harrison Telescopes . You'll find them online. The problem with virtually all other sub-£200 scopes is the mounts and hollow tripod legs - they ALL shake when trying to focus - this is a misery and is responsible for turning loads of people off astronomy.

This scope is built like a tank, has fabulous optics but most of all a SOLID, STEADY metal pier and mount which is a delight to use. As an observer of 30 years standing this in my opinion is the Ultimate starter scope.

Check it out.

By the way - price includes next day delivery.

I concur.

It includes two good quality eyepieces and the very well regarded x2 barlow, a superb finder, a great screen to project the suns image & a bracket to attach a camera so you can take wide field shots while tracking with a crosshair screwed into the eyepiece. No real need for upgrades, it's a proper package. The mount is as solid as a rock. Works superbly with this scope. Nice pics here....http://www.npzoptics.ru/catalog/teleskopy/tal-1/

Sure, it's more expensive than many, but for what you're getting?

If I had to sell all my scopes and had to keep only my Tal 1, I wouldn't be

Andy.

[Geesus]

I'm studying Physics, Electronics and Maths... I did do computing last year but dropped it as it was insanely boring =/. What about yourself?

I'm not expecting pictures anywhere near as good as your M13 snaps - Hoping for this at best:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/GazOC/Saturn.jpg

(taken with a toucam and improved with registax - not my photo though).

I've just ordered a Xbox Vision camera, i'm not even expecting it to work, but at £1.50 from Cex it'd be crazy not to?

Geesus

[badgerchap]

Astrophys for me!

Yeah I think that's the kind of thing you can expect, but even that will take time and patience. I had a go on my dob with a cheapy webcam at saturn but it was a chronic fail! Toucams and the like seem to be the best way to go - I wouldn't risk fleshing out for any other cheapie only to find it doesn't work!

Toucams show up fairly often on UK Astrobuysell - an indespensible resource!

What uni are you at anyway?

[Geesus]

Not at Uni i'm afraid - A levels in Cambridge . You?

Also, hoping to click buy at some point tonight, but I'm still stuck between:

Skywatcher Heritage 130P (dobsonian, sturdy, portable)

Celestron Astromaster 130EQ MD (EQ motor driven mount - good or plain confusing?)

And now the Tal 1 - (probably too expensive, and smaller mirror)

GAHH. Thoughts?

[badgerchap]

Well if you can stretch to it, I would certainly consider AndyH's Tal.

Of the others, let me try and break down the pros and cons - hopefully someone will fill in the inevitable blanks!

EQ is seriously worth considering, for several reasons:

It helps you to get the motion of the sky into your head - sounds a bit daft, but it takes a while for you to know instinctively how everything moves, and a dob doesn't give you the sense of alignment that an equatorial mount does.

Also, there's tracking to consider - both electronic and manual. The EQ, with a bit of practice, will make it much easier to follow objects across the sky - also, if you do try a bit of webcam AP, it'll be a godsend to be able to centre the object, then fumble blindly in the dark whilst fitting the webcam without the object drifting away. With a dob, this will be pernickerty as.

As for the dob, it has ease and simplicity written all over it. Find an object, wiggle around and you're there (in principle). However, this is rarely the case, especially to begin, and more often than not it takes an age to find something the first time.

The other thing with the dob option is that primarily, people choose dobs because they typically offer massive apertures at low(ish) cost. With the options here, you have the same aperture on both. By getting the EQ you may sacrifice simplicity, but in the longer run you gain ease of tracking, familiarity and a better platform to develop your skills and knowledge when your budget eventually grows.

Anyway that's enough of my rubbish! I've only been observing for a few years, but there's guys on here been doing it their whole life, so some of them may tell you different.

P.S. I go to Aberystwyth Uni, but I'm a mature (hah!) student, so I have just finished a foundation year which is essentially equivalent to A-levels (because I have none and even if I did it would have been a good decade ago that I did them!)

[badgerchap]

P.P.S. The brain scratching of amateur astronomy never ceases, as far as what to buy goes

[Geesus]

For anyone who cares - I've just clicked buy on a celestron astromaster 130 EQ MD - Got it for the same price as the plain old EQ .

If the mount is as flimsy as it's made out to be, i'll just use it without the legs extended... If the motor drive works that's a bonus, and i'm hoping the EQ mount will help me "learn" the motion of the sky better - (thanks badger!)

VERY excited about posting a first light report!

Many thanks and clear skies,

Geesus