visualising where the moon, the sun, etc are

[boggy]

hi

Since I've been looking upwards since we moved to Shropshire from Birmingham and I can see the stars up there weather permitting, with binos, just eyes and my birdwatching scope for the moon, jupiter and moons (wow!) and M42 (double wow!), I have become moderately obsessed with how the earth is turning, which way the tilt is pointing, where the stars are going, where the moon is and where the sun is.

For example, I had an orange with biro marks on it with a pencil going through the n-s pole spinning it round a candle on the table the other day trying to work out if I could explain why some constellations are visible now (orion) but are disappearing fast. I am also contructing a 20 sided globe out of a4 paper cut into circles and turned into triangles to make my own celestial sphere.

Did I mention obsessive?

I've only been doing this for 6 months. I need to find an astronomy anonymous group but in the wilds of shropshire it's not easy.

I've looked on the interweb but not really found anything and I've looked at books. The problem is that 2 dimensional representations don't do it for me. I think I'm nearly there though. Well not really. I haven't mentioned the celestial sphere yet. Now I know that someone was trying to help but frankly it doesn't. I'd rather understand how the real thing works than be fobbed off.

Did I mention that I can be seen in the garden spinning round looking over my right shoulder so that I can see the sunset and then the sunrise?

Come on there must be someone out there who has done this and got through it?

Cheers

[PorkyB]

You do sound a bit obsessive, but I think that's a good thing

You could get yourself a planisphere to see how the constellations move around, from our Earth point of view, throughout the year. Or you could install Stellarium (free download) and watch it on fast-forward to see the stars swooping through the sky. Astroviewer (website) shows you the relative positions of the planets for any time.

If you want 3D then there are models of the solar system to buy or build. These won't be to scale but will show the relative movements. For a static model of the solar system accurate to scale in terms of both size and distance then there's one on a cycle path outside York, it's about six miles from Pluto (a ball bearing) to the Sun (about 8 feet in diameter).

Or you could just look at the sky and enjoy.

[Qualia]

When working on this area I try to visualise what is going on in my 'mind's-eye'. What blows me away is that I'm using concepts already arrived at, but there were fellows alone at night figuring it all out for the very first time. You might even want to build yourself your very own Orrery.

[Katen]

hi

I've only been doing this for 6 months. I need to find an astronomy anonymous group but in the wilds of shropshire it's not easy.

Cheers

I think that would be your local astronomy society!!!!

Anonymous maybe not but then on the other hand I find myself having conversations with all sorts of people in the dark when stargazing and I have no idea who some of them are! (apologies to you if any of you are reading this).

[JamesM]

I'm not an expert of 'Apps' for phones but you might want to look at this one that provides a 3D experience of how the earth moves etc. There is a video half way down the article that takes you through some of the features. There are many like this out there (some are advertised at the bottom of the linked page) that are probably a lot better, its just that I saw this one yesterday and thought you might benefit from seeing it.

James

[Astrosurf]

I'm exactly like this! I can't translate something in 2D to 3D. Planispheres don't work with me. Even Stellarium can be problematic. All that 3D geometry stuff does my head in. My hubby can state immediately where the Moon will be, what phase and when without even thinking (so annoying)! My father was highly intelligent and one of the founders of the Open University and even he had problems with this visualisation.

I too have used the orange. I also move around, gesticulating with my arms and muttering to myself. So far no-one's seen me! Except my family but they know I'm mad!

It's often the only way to figure things out. You're not obsessive at all. It's OK for those who 'get it' straight away but we all think differently and learn in different ways. Doing it is the natural way to learn.

Alexxx

[boggy]

Thanks! I'm feeling at home now.

This afternoon I decided to make up a paper strip about 2 inches wide and 2-3 ft long just made from a4 paper sellotaped together and joined up. I had the idea that this would form the zodiac. On the paper I wrote the constellations of the zodiac from an astronomical angle rather than an astrological one, as per wikipedia, together with dates and major star. So 13 constellations laid out. In the centre is the sun, and as earth rotates the constellation on the other side of the sun is the current one.

Now imagine earth going round the sun in an anticlockwise direction and sweeping out the constellations of the zodiac. On dec 21st, the winter solstice, at night time we are looking in the opposite direction to sagittarius at gemini and we are also looking downwards because of the tilt, so we see orion.

As each day passes towards the jun 21 solstice we see gradually see less of orion until it disappears as we look more upwards at night towards the constellations above scorpio ophiucus sagittarius etc.

Anyway it is kind of working for me, especially if earth stops all this rotating nonsense and just points away from the sun tracing out a view of the night sky governed by the tilt at maximum down in december and maximum up in june.

Cheers

[Astrosurf]

I've got to try this. It's right up my street! Great for teaching kids too.

[onesmallstep]

Hi

Local astro society:

Federation of Astronomical Societies - Member Societies

http://www.shropshire-astro.com/main/

HTH!

[telesto]

When working on this area I try to visualise what is going on in my 'mind's-eye'. What blows me away is that I'm using concepts already arrived at, but there were fellows alone at night figuring it all out for the very first time. You might even want to build yourself your very own Orrery.

Hi I Built these from one of those weekly magazines that came out a few years ago, they have electric motors in the bases and the speed can be set from actual to about ten times as fast and they show exatualy how the planets move and how the earth and moon travel round the sun

cheers Clive

[Astrosurf]

Wow, that looks complex, and beautiful!

[telesto]

Wow, that looks complex, and beautiful!

hi, they are nice arnt they they were designed by London metalwork artist Louis Calmels and endorsed by Sir Patrick Moore it took over 2 years to collect the parts for both of them and at 7 quid a week they worked out expensive but they are very unusual and i think in time they could become a collectors item

[LukeSkywatcher]

I lost a couple of issues of the magazine (along with the parts) for building the orrery. I never did complete it. I now have an expensive pile of metal in my wardrobe.

[Qualia]

Hi I Built these...they have electric motors in the bases and the speed can be set from actual to about ten times as fast and they show exatualy how the planets move and how the earth and moon travel round the sun

cheers Clive

They are beautiful looking instruments, Clive. You must be quite chuffed about what you have built. I'd keep hold of them and look after them. A decent Orrery - like you have - seem to be quite expensive.

Telescopes UK: Telescopes & Telescope Accessories in your only London shop

http://www.prezzyshop.co.uk/shopping/ShopDisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes

[telesto]

Hi Qualia

I was very pleased and surprised when i assembled them and they worked, thanks for the link, they could be worth quite a bit in the future, but they are so beautiful i would never sell them

Clive

[gurneyfan67]

Wow Clive! Someone has WAAAY too much time on their hands... Len