Wo swann, sw panaview, revelation, all the same?

[sunshine185]

I am sure i heard out mention that the above ep's are all made in the same factory, considering the rev is 37 quid and the other 2 double the price, would it be a bit daft to pay more for the same ep with a few little modifications like twist up eyecups etc? Cannot decide between a 32mm swann, a panaview or a revelation wide angle ep. Would be for an f6 dob btw.

[John]

Maybe they are the same optical design but differences in the detailed execution that can i) deliver better performance and ii) add to the price. These differences can include quality of internal light baffling, lens coatings, lens edge blackening etc, all of which can make a noticeable difference to performance.

I believe the way it works is that the manufacturers produce a product, such as a wide angle eyepiece, then the brands (eg: Skywatcher, Revelation, etc commission the detailed spec and finish (eg: twist up eyecups) they want to hit the price point they have in mind. I reckon even the levels of production quality checking are negotiable.

Some companies like Tele Vue seem to have exclusive manufacturing deals so their designs are not available under other brand names although there are designs around that are optically quite similar to Naglers and Ethos, ie: the UWANS / Nirvana's and the ES 100 degree eyepieces.

So I guess "you pays your money and makes your choice" as they say. I think the only really way to see if the Revelation is the same as the Panaview or the SWAN is to try them back to back. If you see no difference, get the lower cost one

[sunshine185]

The thing is, i can afford the rev now, but it could be another month or two before i could afford the swann our the sw. Is a tough decision wether our not to wait and save.

[John]

The thing is, i can afford the rev now, but it could be another month or two before i could afford the swann our the sw. Is a tough decision wether our not to wait and save.

I understand your predicament

Perhaps someone on here has experience of both the Revelation and the Panaview / SWAN equivalent

[ronin]

Another aspect concerns testing the eyepieces. I would expect that all eyepieces like these are tested on an automated system. Then sent down different paths depending on the quality determined.

In the electronics field all STB's are checked, some squeeze through some sail through. Some time back Philpis did the same on their amplifiers, those in the top 10% became Marantz equipment, the rest were Philips.

I would expect similar for eyepieces. So what could happen is that the eyepieces are graded A, B, C. The "premium" A grades get took by one company, B's by another and C's by the third. So they all come out the same place, look the same, manufactured together but random conditions create 3 different grades of the eyepieces.

[nightfisher]

i guess im missing some thing here........but i dont see how the revelation is any thing like a panaview or wo swan?

[sunshine185]

Looking at the revelation and the wo swann, they look similar, with similar features, i might be well wide of the mark here though.

[great_bear]

i might be well wide of the mark here though.

Yup, well wide of the mark

They are made by completely different people:

• Revelation = Guan Sheng Optical
  
• Swan/PanaView = Kunming United Optics
  

However, you are half-correct inasmuch as the PanaView is a second-generation version of the eyepiece sold as the WO swan. For a first-generation version one - identical to the WO Swan in all but appearance, you can get the £49 Adler:

Adler Optik 38mm

[sunshine185]

Great bear, was it you who was selling a revelation 42mm ep? If so, what did you think of it?

[great_bear]

I bought it not so long ago and never got around to using it so I can't help there, sorry!

[sunshine185]

No worries.

[ronin]

This lot ?

Telescope_Accessrioes

I see that another manufacturer seems to have appeared.

Biological Microscope,Astronomical Telescope,Magnifier Lamp :Ningbo Barride Optics Co.,Ltd

Have a look at Telescopes - Accessories - Eyepieces.

A nice looking 82 degree eyepiece, no idea what it is like optically. But the range of focal lengths look reasonable/useful.

[John]

Those 82 degree eyepieces look very much like the Meade 5000 UWA's. It's a little confusing that the focal lengths marked on the eyepieces in the picture don't match the ones listed in the specs though

I reckon the current situation in China is that there are a number of common "patterns" circulating for standard field, wide and ultra wide eyepieces and any manufacturer over there can produce them if they want something like that in their range, perhaps with some cosmetic variations, but basically the same optical design.

The designs I seem to see cropping up most often are:

- "Abbe" super orthoscopic clones

- UWAN / Nirvana clones

- Skywatcher Extra Flat clones

- Panaview clones

- Aero ED clones

I guess more or less anyone could set up a brand name over here, order sufficient quantities of the above sorts of designs to get the manufacturer to etch the chosen brand name and maybe another cosmetic variation such as a colour splash of some type, add an appropriate profit margin and then market them here.

Watch this space for more news on the Jahmanson Eyepiece Company and it's exclusive range of finely crafted eyepieces

(Only joking )

This lot ?

Telescope_Accessrioes

I see that another manufacturer seems to have appeared.

Biological Microscope,Astronomical Telescope,Magnifier Lamp :Ningbo Barride Optics Co.,Ltd

Have a look at Telescopes - Accessories - Eyepieces.

A nice looking 82 degree eyepiece, no idea what it is like optically. But the range of focal lengths look reasonable/useful.

[great_bear]

I see that another manufacturer seems to have appeared.

Biological Microscope,Astronomical Telescope,Magnifier Lamp :Ningbo Barride Optics Co.,Ltd

Hard to tell whether they are a manufacturer or just another Chinese distributor. Their Plossl II and 80-degree UWA are just the standard Zhitong models, and their 66 WAs are the Sky-Watcher UWAs.

But maybe they're the original source of some or all of these eyepieces?

It's really hard tracking down the "true" source of optics from the east - especially since some of the companies have similar names. For example, "Kunming United Optics" as far as I can tell is a completely different company to "Kunming Optical Instruments", the former being at 2007 Ke Gao Road, and the latter at 285 Dan Xia Rd.

But in many cases the business relationships and ownership blurs things even further. Kunming Optical Instruments claim they've been able to control or partly own 11 Kunming-based factories for different stages of product production, ranging from optical glass processing and coating, to mechanical fittings processing, tooling, assembling and packaging.

The community seems so close-knit that there seems little point trying to go truly to the "factory source" since in some cases there really isn't "one source" - the eyepieces etc. being produced by different factories shipping boxes of components to other factories for the next stage of production, under the management and control of various product marketing companies. It seems likely that some or even most of these factories are completely unable to handle sales and distribution of final product, since there is no finished product at their stage of production - this function being performed by folks like Barride, Barsta, KOI etc. etc.

This might also explain why you can mix & match components between different eyepiece designs. You can unscrew the lens capsule from a TMB eyepiece and fit it into a Sky-Watcher UWA for example...

[great_bear]

Watch this space for more news on the Jahmanson Eyepiece Company and it's exclusive range of finely crafted eyepieces

This is clearly how the TMB eyepieces came about in the first place; you'd just talk to someone like Barride about a suitable capsule, lenses, spacers and retaining rings to accommodate your configuration, then ask them about what housings they can source for you, and what discounts for bulk buys would be available.

Ever noticed no-one does an eyepiece with a silver tapered nosepiece? All those black tapered nosepieces (the William Optics style) probably come out of the same "nosepiece factory" I reckon. Eyecups from different eyepiece manufacturers are often the same unit in every detail, so there's clearly an "eyecup factory" in the loop too.

So - all joking apart - with the Internet simplifying communications these days, I don't think it would be much of a stretch for an enterprising individual here on SGL to put together a unique eyepiece design by mixing and matching the various options and having one's own branding printed on the side. After all, Telescope-Service in Europe seem to do this with their "HR" version of the TMBs and also their custom, High-Quality version of the Sky-Watcher UWAs.

Maybe one day we'll even see SGL-branded eyepieces to match the mugs and T-Shirts!

[Dellis]

I have a Panaview 38mm and HAD a Revelation 42mm - the Panaview is in a different league, far superior.

Dave