Past the planets !

[wizardaire]

Hi all i'm new here but have been reading posts on this site for weeks...wow learnt more here than on the other million sites i've been on THANKS FOR THAT .

my kids have spotting scopes not telescopes !

but the main 2 are Helios Fieldmaster A90 30 - 90x 90mm spotting scope and a Seben 20-60 x 80 spotting scope ( any suggestions on how to stop the ridiculas glare from the moon on this 1 would be great ) they do great work for the kids but have made me realize that i want a decent scope that we can all use.

i am more interested in beyond the planets lol ..nebs and things .

so am asking what would be the best purchase to cover both planets and deeper space?

must be amazingly easy to setup as i have the tec knowledge of a tree.

bought a refrlector scope bout 6 yr back and never got it to wrk at all ended up lobbing it at a wall and that was that put me off 4 yrs but now want to get into it for both me and kids.

must be able to be moved fairly easily as if left setup all the time my dogs may decide to try see if it edible lol .

any and all suggestions would be very helpful.

[onesmallstep]

Hi and welcome to SGL!

First off, make or adapt dew shields for the spotting scopes, this can be anything from takeaway leaflets fastened with rubber bands to purpose made kit with velcro fastenings. The idea is to extend the tube length beyond the glass so that stray light doesn't get in and obscure the view.

Secondly, for the observing you want to to do get another reflector, FLO above has a good range. Good choices will include the Skywatcher Explorer 150 or the Skyliner 150/200 Dobsonians. I have the Skyliner 200 and they are quite difficult to throw against walls but are good on a wide range of astro objects!!!

Also, contact a local astro group and attend star parties and public astro sessions (a.k.a sidewalk astronomy). Talk to members and try the range of scopes on display before making any decisions). Type 'fedastro' into a search engine and click on the Societies link.

HTH!

[wizardaire]

Hi there thanks for the advice. there are no astro groups near me closest being 2hrs drive away .

I have looked at dozens of scopes so far online and read reviews, i think i want 1 in the Maksutov Cassegrain optics range as they seem to be fitting what i need in most aspects but have no idea which 1 would be best for both planets and dso's.

[onesmallstep]

Only a generalisation but the Mak design has a long focal length (high f/ number) so would be better for planets and lunar viewing. Scopes with a low f/ number (f/4-f/6) have wide field views which are more suited to the deep sky objects. Again, no hard and fast rules about this as each scope will show roughly the same objects.

Depending on where you live is there an astro supplier near you so that you can try before you buy? Also, read the primers on scope types to give you a few pointers.

[JamesM]

Observing planets and DSO at their best requires different scopes because there designs work in different ways that will yield different advantages. A maksutov is great for planets and the moon but its relatively small aperture will only reveal the brightest DSO's. Its design will create a narrow field of view which could make framing some nebula and star clusters difficult. The best all round scope and for a modest budget will be a dobsonian scope. Being a reflector type of scope, it will need collimating occasionally which is not a difficult procedure and in fact is desirable in order to keep the scope in tip top condition. Observing in astronomy will always involve certain trade offs in order to secure a particular advantage and price is the biggest one. Dobsonian scopes are the best all rounders and as 'light buckets' will yield the highest number of targets to observe and therefore will sustain interest the longest, especially where children are concerned.

James

[wizardaire]

thanks for the help you are being but i would never buy a reflector scope again lol way too many bad memories with the last 1 ... what apature would i need in a maksutov to make it worthwhile would an c8 be of any use?

[John]

thanks for the help you are being but i would never buy a reflector scope again lol way too many bad memories with the last 1 .....

Thats a real shame because you will miss out on the best "bang for your buck" you can get by a long way

An F/6 8" dobsonian really does do both deep sky and planetary / lunar extremely well.

[onesmallstep]

Hi

The best compromise given your experiences would probably be a mid-range 4-inch / 100mm refractor around the f/7 focal ratio. An alternative is a Maksutov or Schmidt-Cassegrain with a focal reducer to tame the high f/ ratios but this option may prove expensive.

Having read your original thread intro above was it the scope or the mount that gave you problems? I ask because equatorial (EQ) mounts that come as a bundled setup with the scope are not the easiest item of kit to get to grips with. Maybe it was this that caused the problems, if so the Dobsonian type mentioned above would still be a good starter scope for your observing requirements.

HTH!

[Superewza]

Having read your original thread intro above was it the scope or the mount that gave you problems? I ask because equatorial (EQ) mounts that come as a bundled setup with the scope are not the easiest item of kit to get to grips with. Maybe it was this that caused the problems, if so the Dobsonian type mentioned above would still be a good starter scope for your observing requirements.

HTH!

Given that they have a Seben spotting scope, i'd say the manufacturer was the cause of their problems.

Get a reflector, a good one. A rubbish manufacturer will make rubbish scopes whatever they are.

[wizardaire]

now that sounds more what i am looking for i think.. can you get a focal reducer for a c8 or a meade ETX-125 AT and would that make them be able to do both?

[wizardaire]

the seben is great for seeing the moon and does amazing land views for the younger boy(he uses to watch ferries go out ) but does have really bad glare on it. might try what some1 else surgested and make a shield see if that help any.

[wizardaire]

made a dew shield for the seban scope and it works much better got to see jupiter last nite so thankyou very much 4 that surgestion. out of these 2 which are better suited (with any acces needed ) to do both planets and dso's

Meade LT 8 ACF or Celestron NexStar 8 SE (XLT)

[onesmallstep]

Hi

I'm glad the dewshield / light shroud idea worked.

I don't know that much about Meade models so I would go for the Celestron as I know several people who use the SE5 and SE6 models and they are very happy with the performance. Again, one of the purchases you would need to make for this design of scope would be a dew shield as the business end is prone to misting up in the cold air. The focal reducer would work with both models and works by widening the field of view which gives better views of DSOs.

HTH!

[wizardaire]

thanks for all the help u are giving it does help on such a big decision, i want to buy a full set from the get go so i dnt have to keep adding things on lol can u use webcam on the SE6 and if u can do u get good pics?

can u see dso's with SE6? or just planets.

sorry for the questions but i need to get it rite lol

[JamesM]

You can use a webcam on any scope to get images of the moon and planets. Select the best 'frames' and then stack them on top of each other using a free program called Registax to align them and and merge them to form one composite image - some good results can be had. Not really much use on deep sky objects (galaxies and nebula) as they are generally faint and will need longer exposures which will require an accurate motorised mount to help track them through the night sky.

James

[wizardaire]

that sounds great thankyou, will i be able to see galaxies and nebulas with a SE6 or will i need SE8?

[onesmallstep]

The 8-inch scope has the larger aperture so will gather more light (77% more light capture than the 6 inch). The NexStar and Meade LS/LT series both have GOTO mounts that can be used to track objects during imaging.

[faulksy]

bigger the better, but obviously bigger the more expensive

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The Dob will be the best bang for your bucks, but I would rate my (much more expensive) Celestron C8 as a very good all-round scope, visually at least. A very few large DSOs do not fit into its 1.38 deg true field of view with 2" visual back fitted and 40mm Paragon lens. Visually, this a much better set-up than using a focal reducer. On my C8 a 40mm yields 50x magnification, and an exit pupil of 4 mm. On an 8" F/6 dob, a 24mm Hyperion would yield the same FOV and the same magnification, at the same brightness of the image (bar the slight difference in central obstruction). Of course, using a 31mm Nagler you would get a wider field of view at a still very useful exit pupil size. A dob will do wider field objects better. Having said that, there are very few DSOs that do not fit into the field of view of my C8 (even the double cluster fits). There are very many more which fit all too easily.

Only when doing photography does the speed of the scope come into play BIG TIME for DSOs. Aperture is less important in that case. The nice thing about the C8 is the ease of set up, and its compact build. It is also outstanding at keeping collimation. People doubting the ability of an SCT for visual observation of DSOs should perhaps read some observing reports , like this one.

Having said all this, I should note my first scope was a 6" F/8 Newtonian on a simple alt-az mount (similar to dob, but not nearly as good). They easily give the most aperture for the money, are easy to set up, and really good all-round scopes.

[wizardaire]

has any tried the new LS (light switch) meade 6 or 8 inch?

[ronin]

To view DSO's you need aperture. If that aperture is in an f/5 scope or an f/10 scope it does not really matter.

A 5" f/5 collects the same amount as an 5" f/10.

The 6SE is fine for the vast majority of objects up there. It will not collect as much light as a 10" reflector but that is because it is a 6" scope, so about 1/3 the collecting power.

The LS Meades seem to be fairly good, but they aren't cheap and buying a scope is the start of reducing your bank balance.

My concern at this time is the number of posts on SGL about problems with Skywatcher and Celestron electronics. Skywatcher and Celestron are both owned by Synta.

With the apparent exception of the Meade LS range, goto's are not completely automatic. They need setting up and aligning, I would guess that even the Meade LS's are better if set up as best as possible before you tell it to align itself. Basically the better it starts out the more accurate the alignmet as less errors need to be compensated for.

[wizardaire]

thanks very much that does help alot, i know the LS systems are expensive but to be honest i want something that ..

1..easy to set up and align

2..portable

3..has education for kids from age 4- 15

4..will not need half a ton of things added onto it

5..allowing us to learn by it showing us and be able to do our selfs

i have been saving near a yr now and want the best set-tup from the word go with the avalible funds.

will the 6" see as much as the 8" just the 8" see it better?

i have 1 boy into planets but another into dso's.

like you say they are expensive but hopefully will last a good few yrs if i get it rite first time.

the LS sounds like the rite 1 for us but i am having a problem with 6" or 8" the 8" being about £400 above funds after eyepieces and other needed things.

if the 8" is worth the extra £400 then i will just have keep saving till i have enough.

[DavidOfBanff]

For about £210 delivered you could buy this simple but excellent point and shoot telescope:

First Light Optics - Skywatcher Skyliner 150P Dobsonian

and worry about more expense and complication some other time.

[wizardaire]

thankyou but the whole point here is not to have to worry over more expense and complication some other time, i know that i do not want a reflector scope and that i want the best possible education and learning curve for the money that i have already spent saving for near a yr now.

its not the money ( hubbys worked himself in ground to get ) it's just not spending an extra £400 if it really doesnt make a difference.

i want to get the best i can now so that i can stop worrying over it ( omg not as easy as i thought )hubby just says get the 1 you want but its alot of money so i need to make sure that i can do my best to please as many as possible in 1 go for as long as possible lol.

the chances are it will be the 6 or 8" LS but just need now to see if that extra £400 is going to make a worthwhile difference.

[onesmallstep]

thanks very much that does help alot, i know the LS systems are expensive but to be honest i want something that ..

1..easy to set up and align

2..portable

3..has education for kids from age 4- 15

4..will not need half a ton of things added onto it

5..allowing us to learn by it showing us and be able to do our selfs

i have been saving near a yr now and want the best set-tup from the word go with the avalible funds.

will the 6" see as much as the 8" just the 8" see it better?

i have 1 boy into planets but another into dso's.

like you say they are expensive but hopefully will last a good few yrs if i get it rite first time.

the LS sounds like the rite 1 for us but i am having a problem with 6" or 8" the 8" being about £400 above funds after eyepieces and other needed things.

if the 8" is worth the extra £400 then i will just have keep saving till i have enough.

Hi

Sorry if it sounds like I'm repeating myself but given your observing needs set out in the quote the ideal telescope is a reflector. The Dob 150 suggested above is ideal, ticks all the boxes and being a Dob will be much easier to use that your last (negative) experience with reflectors. Give the Dob a go, if you really can't get on with it you can always sell it on and go back to your original scope choices.