Baader Hyperion Eyepieces - Thoughts and Questions

[Macavity]

I seem to be (inexorably!) replacing my "other eyepieces" with Baader Hyperions. I wonder if anyone has thoughts on these latter? FWIW, I use them with a Skywatcher MAK127 (f=1250) & ST102 (F5 achromat) refractor. I "upgraded" both scopes w/2" diagonals. Here are a few observations, interspersed with (implied) questions. Opinions welcome!

On the Positive Side:

Budget: I'm unlikely to be able to afford an extensive series of Naglers, Pentax' &c. At ~£75, the Hyperion is not TOO bad a stretch on the ol' plastic. It also seems commensurate with the general quality of my budget 'scopes?

Field of View: 68 Deg seems sufficient for me. It's (obviously) MORE than a Plossl! (My only excursion into 82 Deg was a [albeit fine] Antares Speers-Waler). Granted not "space walking". But do I really NEED more than 68 Deg?

Weight: Once I got used to the slightly "Brobdignagian" world of (potentially) 2" eyepieces, this was not a particular problem. At ~550g, and for both my scopes, I can add just "nose weights" to take care of the imbalace issues.

1.25"/2": I sense people neglect the potential for using these eyepeices in 2" mode. Despite having to buy extra 2" diagonals for both scopes, this shortens the optical path. Doesn't "stick out as much", but a LOT more rigid!

Performance: Ostensibly fine? I suspect I CAN see a little bit of "edge-softening" with the F5 refractor, increasing with Hyperion focal length. Perhaps not as "good" as Vixen LVW "parent"(?), but on a budget and w/my eyes...

On the "Quibble" side:

Long Focal lengths: NONE - A bit of a shame really! I note LVW's have a 42mm, but a "gap" at 30-35mm. Maybe it isn't "technologically" possible? I note, recent "Stratus" and "Scopos" offerings, don't seem to have evoked "critical acclaim". Maybe the only way to augment the series, on a budget, is via S/H 27mm, 35mm PAN(optic)s etc.

Hyperion 21mm & 17mm: Of all the Hyperions (so far) the 21mm is one Iike least. There is a (known) 60 Deg (Not 68 Deg) field - But more importantly, I see "coloured blackout" esp. 'round the edges. Folks advocate use of the 17mm - as almost same TFOV. (It ain't) Maybe it's worth investing in a 22mm LVW? Are the 68 Deg? Do they FIT 2"?

Adjustment Rings: Hyperions consist of a main lens group plus "Smyth" nosepiece. A bit like a Barlow, this allows "Extension Rings" for modifying the focal length the eyepiece. Instinctively, I miss a 10mm eyepiece. In a MAK 127, 8mm seems a bit optimistic, whereas the 13mm seems to have "plenty in reserve". Maybe I NEED 'em too?

"Sans Smythe": It's possible to remove the Smythe ENTIRELY. The main lenses (dubbed "Erfle") have focal length 30mm (35mm for the 22mm). Opinion varies. Some find it acceptably sharp the edges, others suggest it's a "finder eyepeice only". At F5, a (Smythe-less) 22mm didn't seems as good as my "Canonical Moonfish". Thoughts?

There's still the nagging doubt re. being Hyperion-exclusive. In the words of Sgt. Wilson: "Do you think that's WISE, Sir"! Or perhaps the (part) answer is not to get TOO embroiled into eyepiece speculation and obsession?

[GazOC]

Hi Mac,

Just a few observations on your observations....

I've got a set of Hyperions down to the 5mm, thats 5 eyepeices at ~£70 a pop which is quite enough for my plastic as well, thats 'premium' enough for me...

I agree that the 21mm lets the side down a bit, its not actally bad but not as good as the rest of the range, the 13mm seems the best to me in my scope (I primarily use it in my f4.5 Dob).

Hang in there for longer fl Baader Hyperion eyepieces, rumours are that they are on their way....

For the money I don't think you can do much better in a short focal ratio scope than the Hyperions, theres not that much else out there with similar specs at that price.

[Macavity]

Thanks for that, Gaz - Reassuring. But it seems to be rather difficult to find anyone who actively dislikes Hyperions - Even among the more "budget-ly endowed"! Although hard to resist, I really MUST restrict myself to the cheap 'n' cheerful, among the longer focal lengths - For the moment. As an aside, I got SOME way towards wider fields, with a "straight" Lanthanum 30mm. Alebeit "only" 60 deg, at £100 it is fairly complementry to the Hyperion in qualities...

So far, I have gone down to 5mm. I too find there's nowt REALLY wrong with a 21mm. More specifically [counting on fingers], I sense you have the 17mm more than me! Question: Do you find the 17mm sufficiently "different" (useful?) compared to e.g. (the agreed fine) 13mm? I have a vague "case" for buying one, based on an assumption BOTH the 13mm and 17mm usefully explore the (say) 80-150x range for a scope f ~ 1000/1500mm (MAK 127)? I have an even vaguer case for a 3.5mm (143x) in an ST102 refractor, but I suspect that can wait...

[GazOC]

Funnily enough I was only thinking the other night that I don't use the 17mm very much!!! I usually take out my Moonfish 30mm (good eyepiece but a dog at f5) as a finder and the 21, 13, 8 and 5 Hyperions. I havn't done the maths on what mags (or gaps in mags) this gives me but I don't often have to go back inside to fetch the 17mm.

If you think you may need something in that range why not try a adjusting ring on the 13mm and see how much you'd actually use an eyepeice of the focal length before you buy?

[jcm]

I have the Baader Hyperion 5mm. This seems to work well with my F6 refractor. This gives a mag of 156X.

I used it to look at Saturn with a 2x apo barlow - mag 312X - this gave me one of the best views of Saturn that I have ever had.

John

[Brass n glass]

I've been using a 21m for visual observations for a few months and it's grown on me. I've recently read a detailed review of a 17mm which confirms my view of the 21mm: resolution is not quite as good as with a good Plossl or orthoscopic, many of which cost less than a Hyperion. But the 21m is much more comfortable to use with very little kidney beaning when used with its integral Barlow screwed on. If you unscrew the 1.25 inch Barlow end, you're left with a 2 inch Erfle with 1.8X the focal length of the original eyepiece with Barlow. The Erfle bit used on its own gives a true "spacewalk" view similar to some of Mr Nagler's much more expensive offerings.

I reckon that in the 1.25 inch Hyperion you get full clarity over about 80 per cent of the field, but with the Barlow removed you get it over little more than 50 per cent. I expected the eyepiece minus Barlow to perform better in my long-focus Mak than in a fast refractor, but it was the other way about. In the Mak, which has performed well with every other eyepiece I've thrown at it, there was so much false colour and distortion that stars away from the centre of the field looked like miniature French flags. In the refractor there was a fair bit of distortion but no false colour. I think that, at less than half the price of the Vixen eyepiece it was copied from, this 21mm Hyperion offers very good value for money. Hyperions also work on some spotting scopes. There's a Baader adapter to fit the Hperions to Zeiss Diascopes, and apparently they also work on Synta's Acuter range.

[russ]

I've only got the 21mm from the Hyperion range, basically because I have the Burgess/TMB for the shorter focal lengths and the Hyperion for longer focal lengths.

Agree 100% with the above post. I found the 21mm to be a superb eyepiece in the Vixen 102M (102mm f10) and still be a good performer in the f6 8" Newt. Kidney bean effect not a problem. Sharp across the entire field in the Vixen.

The eyepiece only really falls apart when the barlow element is removed. Using it as 2" widefield in the Newt gives a field only sharp across the center 40%. Beyond that things get ugly.

Worth pointing out that its pretty heavy. Maybe an issue for someone with a finely balanced SCT or Dob.

On the upside, it barlows very well indeed. The tuning rings work well too making it a 4in1 eyepiece. I now have the T-Thread adapter, so can hook up the 300D and Toucam. A very versitile eyepiece for not much money.

I only intend to have two eyepiece in my collection. The 21mm Hyperion and the 9mm TMB, plus a barlow. Covers all my visual needs.

Russ

[GazOC]

I only intend to have two eyepiece in my collection. The 21mm Hyperion and the 9mm TMB, plus a barlow. Covers all my visual needs.

You're going through one of those minimalist phases, eh?

[GordonCopestake]

I loved owning 4 eyepieces and will do again at some point soon. I had :

3-6 zoom

11mm

24mm

30mm

Covered everything I could wish for. Cost a blumming fortune though!

[russ]

You're going through one of those minimalist phases, eh? Wink

Yeah, i find i whizz around the sky with the Hyperion looking for the DSO's. And the TMB plus barlow covers all Lunar/Planetary situations.

[Macavity]

Aside: Intriguing the Celestron 68 Deg "Ultima LX" series has progression 5, 8, 13, 22... AND 32mm. The shorter focal lengths being 8 element like the Hyperions. The 32mm & 22mm seem to be 2"-ers with SIX elements. I sense they are "coming soon"? Hard to find photographic evidence, aside from: http://www.handsonoptics.com/ep_celestron.html

[GazOC]

A 22mm 2" eyepeice is a funny choice.....a 21 at 1.25 or say a 25mm at 2". A 22mm, 68 deg eyepiece is right on the cusp of needing to be 2".

[Brass n glass]

So are the new Ultima LX eyepieces just modified Hyperions with a slightly wider FOV at the expense of less eye relief (and with the Barlow bit left off the 22mm)? Presumably the factory that makes Hyperions and their clones will make small modifications if a customer wants them. Whatever they are, they are going to cost a lot more than Hyperions (see Greenwitch price list).

[GazOC]

:shock:I see what you mean. They better be more than reworked Hyperions for that sort of money.