Aquavit

I've just bought a TS Optiks ED80, weighs 2.4Kg and their AZT6 mount which is a lovely little thing and weighs only 0.84Kg. Will go on my Manfrotto tripod making for a very lightweight portable setup and it all goes in a TS Optiks padded scope/gear bag. This is what I would take if I was driving, but if I was flying I'd prefer to take binoculars.

Thanks for the welcome Philip! I was using an Astro Essentials 32mm Plossl, Explore Scientific 26mm/62º and my OVL Zoom 7.2mm - 21.5mm. The Plossl and the ES were the worst affected, the Zoom seemed to cope better with the prism, but all are much better with the mirror diagonal.

As you say, not cheap! Do you observe exclusively with a prism diagonal or do you switch between the two types and suffer the mental gymnastics??

Thanks Vlaiv, there is so much to learn in this hobby and I suspect that all the information required to make a correct choice is not always obvious. Why would WO reduce the aperture on their prism if it excludes the use of a lot of eyepieces?

As a newbie one of the first things that struck me was the reversed image in the eyepiece and the difficulties this presented me, particularly when trying to find my way around the Moon. Deciding that it was easier to buy a "right way round" diagonal in the form of an Amici Prism rather than training my brain to unlearn a lifetime of knowing right from left I ordered this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/william-optics-125-90-degree-erecting-prism.html from FLO. Fitted to my little Mak and tested with some Lunar surfing all was good, except it wasn't. It became apparent that I was struggling to get a clear view through the eyepiece , any eyepiece in fact although some were worse than others. My observing was hampered by a "tunnelling" effect, known as blackout as I now understand, and detailed in my earlier thread here where the conclusion was that the problem was caused by too much eye relief: Since then I've done some experimentation and switched between the OEM Skywatcher diagonal and the new WO prism. To my surprise, viewing through the star diagonal eliminated the blackout issue and made all of my eyepieces viable. I've repeated the exercise both at night and in daylight and the difference is quite stark. On examining the two diagonals what is immediately obvious is that the aperture on the WO prism is significantly less both at the scope and the eyepiece end. Putting my callipers over them reveals: Scope end - SW Star Diagonal 28.2mm ID with no obstruction before the mirror, WO Prism 25.3mm ID with a further obstruction reducing the ID to around 19.2mm. Eyepiece end - SW Star Diagonal 32mm ID with no obstruction before the mirror, WO Prism 32mm ID with a stepped obstruction reducing the ID to around 18mm. Obviously these obstructions must reduce the light travelling through the diagonal but, more pertinent to me, they are I think what is creating the blackout I was experiencing when using it. Is this design common to all Prism diagonals or a feature of the WO product? I'm sure someone more technically astute can explain these differences and answer the "why". Anyway, stumbling across what seems to be the cause of my problem has restored my faith in the eyepieces I have and determined me to retrain the brain to understand that right is in fact left.

I'm about to order the nice little AZT6 mount for my soon to arrive ED80, for those not familiar with this mount, here it is: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9334_TS-Optics-Tilting-Head-and-Altazimuth-Mount-for-photo-tripods.html The mount will be fitted on to my Manfrotto tripod rated at 7Kg, the OTA weighs 2.81 Kgs and so with EP and RDF a touch over 3Kg all up. The mount is rated at 4Kg sans counterweight and 6Kg with, I appear to be comfortably within the no weight zone but I have heard it suggested that this type of mount runs more smoothly when it's suitably balanced. Any real world experience of this or similar mounts and anything else I should be aware of?

I have considered a wifi mount, either the SW AZ Gti or, for more capacity, the iOptron AZ Pro. On paper I prefer the idea of these to a full goto and would run the Gti from an iPhone whereas the iOptron does come with a handset, but one issue that immediately crops up is that neither mount can be firmware updated via a MacBook so that's made them more or less unviable for me. These two reports add further doubts, it seems more hassle than just using a simple manual AZ mount and the human eye, depending on the visibility or otherwise of the targets you're aiming for of course.

Yes Heather, it is the 190XPRO tripod. Very stable carrying the Mak and the Pronto and would make a very portable setup. I know a lot on here don't like the pivot point location on the Pronto mount, but for a short lightweight scope I find it works very well. Not that I have much to compare it to, being a newbie!

I have a 102 Mak, it originally came on an EQ1 mount with aluminium tripod. I have swapped this to an AZ Pronto mount and fitted it to a Manfrotto photographic tripod I already had. I have just weighed the complete ensemble, as seen in the photo, it comes in at around 4.5Kg sans eyepiece:

Some very helpful replies, thank you. Last night I adopted the advice given and enjoyed what was my best yet observing session, comfortably seated, telescope at the right height for viewing the Moon near to the zenith and the Mak mounted on an alt az rather than the usual EQ mount - this made a big difference in ease of use. I also adapted my viewing approach to suit the eyepiece rather than fighting it, this was better although still not ideal but, as has been said, I may get used to it over time. Interesting point Vlav makes about the design of the Mak 102 possibly contributing to this effect, it will be interesting to compare the EP performance in my 80ED when I get it. For the inexperienced, it seems eyepiece selection is something of a lottery with potentially frustrating and expensive consequences. I wonder if there is a formula for determining an individual's EP eye relief requirements?

That is what I'm experiencing, I can get a "clear view" if I can hold my eye steady at exactly the right distance but this makes for uncomfortable viewing and is all but impossible to maintain for any length of time. I normally observe standing up but will try sitting down tonight. Am I right in assuming then that this is a not uncommon phenomena and not a consequence of mis-matched equipment and/or my eyes?

I don't wear specs to view but I was conscious of choosing an EP with reasonable eye relief as I assumed that that was only a good thing. Could the amount of eye relief (ie too much) explain the "barreling" effect I'm experiencing? Or is it me that needs to get used to viewing through eyepieces???

Just to reiterate/clarify, following on from what Pixies said, the Plossl and Explore Scientific EP's have fold up/down rubber cups and the zoom has an adjustable eyecup. The zoom I can get comfortable with and eliminate the barreling, the other two not so.

I can't seem to get comfortable with my eyepieces. I'm a newbie to astronomy (at 64 years old a late arrival) with a MAK 102/1300mm. I quickly ditched the supplied eyepieces and bought a Hyperflex 7.2mm - 21mm zoom along with an Astro Essentials 32mm Plossl and have been observing with these two eyepieces, mainly Lunar but did catch the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction. The zoom is useful but I find myself staying in the lower mag zone and I can get comfortable with it icy making use of the adjustable cup, I would describe the optical quality as adequate. The Plossl gives a beautiful crisp image of the Moon with lots of contrast, better optical quality than the zoom but I struggle to get comfortable with it, if I put my eye to the cup I get a barreling effect so the only way to see the whole image is to draw away and this leaves me hovering around above the cup and struggling to stay still. This is the same issue I had with the original included eyepieces, the 10mm being particularly bad. I'm shortly going to be ordering an 80mm ED frac and, with this in mind and to add to my arsenal of EP's, I ordered a 26mm 62 degree Explore Scientific EP which is a significant upgrade in terms of cost compared to my other EP's. I've just tried this out (in daylight) and the same problem occurs - I can't get close enough to be comfortable. I'm at a loss to know what the problem is, have I got the wrong eyepieces for my eyes, are they a mismatch with the scope or is it my observing style?

I knew that would come up 😁 6" is a much larger scope and I don't want the collimation hassle. I may change my mind though after I've scratched the frac itch!

I've ruled out the 102ED scopes due to weight as they won't fit my existing mount/tripod options, the extra aperture would be nice to have which is why I'm considering the Apchro option in that size. This is primarily to give me a grab and go option, to see if I like refractors and utilise kit I already have. A larger/nicer frac with corresponding mounting options could happen further down the line depending on how my astronomy interests develop. I've also decided against the Sky-Watcher as the build and finish puts me off, I've since read on here a less than flattering user review of the Bresser so now I'm not so sure about going for an Apchro. I saw this as being a complimentary scope to my Mak, wide filed views maybe better quality image with the ED glass that I can use for sky surfing and viewing the brighter DSO's whilst leaving the Mak for Lunar and planetary duties. I guess it will come down to smaller aperture but better glass and hardware versus larger aperture with poorer optics and build quality.

I have the itch for a refractor scope which will be for pure visual, I don't plan to go down the AP rabbit hole. My first and only scope is a MAK 102 and so I have nothing to compare it to, I've enjoyed getting what use I can out of it, dodging the clouds and the freezing weather. It's given me some great views of the Moon, Saturn and Jupiter Conjunction and a few days ago I bagged my first view of the Orion Nebula. My first proper look at a DSO has given me thirst for more and I realise that the Mak is not necessarily the best tool for this job, at this stage I'm not interested in chasing down every faint object possible, I just want to enjoy the more prominent DSO's. So no Dob required. I've discovered that I like seeing objects in context, the Moon suspended in black space rather than the ultimate in magnification for instance is what gives me pleasure. What I would hope to get from a refractor scope are wide field views with a nice contrasty image and maybe some colour in the nebulae. I've obviously done some surfing around looking at "fracs" and with no particular budget in mind but was aware that inch for inch they are going to cost a lot more than a reflector. Or are they? I was initially thinking medium to longer term for acquiring one and whilst a Tak may be a bit of a stretch I was attracted to the Stellamira 80 by it's gorgeous build quality, this would involve a new mount and tripod (iOptron and Berlebach were drooled over) so the cost was beginning to mount up. I then realised that at 900mm FL it was probably not ideal for deep sky so started looking at 80mm ED scopes, this one for instance https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7169_TS-Optics-ED-APO-80-mm-f-7-Refractor-with-2-5--R-P-focuser.html I was much more comfortable with the price and weight of this scope as I could utilise my existing mounting options. Further research brought up the suggestion that for deep sky visual use an Achromatic would do the job just as well and thanks to weight and cost saving I could probably go to a 100mm scope. Two obvious contenders are the SW https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102t-ota.html and Bresser https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-ar-102s-600-refractor-ota.html To my eyes the Bresser looks better finished and the SW has mixed reviews with regards to the focus mechanism. So, to get to the point, would the 102 Achros serve me better than an 80mm ED, or are there other options I should be aware of?

Re-posting this in the newbie section: Wanting a lightweight "grab and go" setup to maximise what seem, at the moment, very rare observation opportunities I've just bought an AZ Pronto to mount on my existing Manfrotto tripod. As best I can find Skywatcher quote a payload of 3kg when sold as a bundle with their tripod, that seems rather low and I suspect the limitation may be the tripod rather than the mount. My Manfrotto 190PROX is rated at 7kgs payload, I've weighed the Pronto which tips the scales at just over a kilo, so in theory I have a comfortable scope payload of around 5kgs. I know others on here have this mount so wondering what real world experiences are. It will obviously comfortably take my Mak 102 but I'm thinking of getting a Refractor OTA to pair with it.

Wanting a lightweight "grab and go" setup to maximise what seem, at the moment, very rare observation opportunities I've just bought an AZ Pronto to mount on my existing Manfrotto tripod. As best I can find Skywatcher quote a payload of 3kg when sold as a bundle with their tripod, that seems rather low and I suspect the limitation may be the tripod rather than the mount. My Manfrotto 190PROX is rated at 7kgs payload, I've weighed the Pronto which tips the scales at just over a kilo, so in theory I have a comfortable scope payload of around 5kgs. I know others on here have this mount so wondering what real world experiences are. It will obviously comfortably take my Mak 102 but I'm thinking of getting a Refractor OTA to pair with it.

Asking the dealer to do it sounds like a good idea.

I'd like a more stable and useable mount for my SW Mak 102 and like the functionality and clean design of the AZ-GTI mount, which I would want to use in EQ mode. I can re-use the counterweight from my EQ1 and purchase the Star Adventurer wedge. The Mak 102 is well within the load capacity of the mount and tripod so all looks to be good. However, there looks to be a few potential issues, polar alignment being one and the poor customer support from SW being another. The biggest problem though for me could be the firmware upgrade, which I understand needs to be done on a laptop with a special cable connected to the mount. I run OSX MacBook and from what I can see the firmware is only available in Windows format. If there is no work around for this it will be a deal breaker, has anyone running OSX got one of these mounts overcome this issue?

I know🙈 Yes, they are expensive, but they will do a price match if you email them the link to the cheaper product listed elsewhere. It's an option in the less than ideal world of very limited choice that we currently inhabit!

It is a big problem everywhere, although these have 8" Sky-Watcher Dobsonian in stock: https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/skywatcher-dobson-telescope-n-200-1200-skyliner-classic-dob/p,4440

The forecast turned out to be correct so I set off just before dusk to the highest point in the village and set the scope up facing uninterrupted views toward the horizon. Jupiter became visible well before the orange glow of sunset had faded and aligning the scope on the target confirmed it was indeed the gas giant with the moons also easily observed. Whilst I awaited darker skies and the appearance of Saturn I trained my MAK on to the moon to try out my new eyepieces. The zoom providing very clear views at the lower power end of the scale, but the 32mm Psossl was a revelation with lovely crisp definition and the moon filling just the right amount of the lens. A real delight. Having limbered up with some lunar viewing the scope was then turned south west to face the main event of the evening whilst the planets were still at a reasonable altitude. Using the 32mm eyepiece did indeed capture both planets, exactly as indicated on the post above from fifeskies, the Jovian moons very bright and Saturns rings just discernible. I tried the zoom eyepiece to increase magnification for single planetary observation but to no real gain as the fuzziness also increased. All in all I came away feeling very pleased, I managed to get the tail end of the conjunction in good skies and to observe something that was a once in a lifetime opportunity. I hope others have been as lucky.

Hena I am also a beginner and was faced with the same dilemma. In the end I bought a Sky-Watcher MAK 102 - the same scope vlaiv recommends to you, although mine came on an EQ mount. I think it is a very good starter scope, the planetary and lunar views (in my limited experience) are very good although I have not tried it yet on DSO. I did find the included eyepieces to be of very average quality and with poor eye relief. I have swapped them for a zoom lens https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/hyperflex-72mm-215mm-eyepiece.html which is far better optical quality and saves me having to swap over the eyepieces. I also bought a 32mm lens https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astro-essentials-eyepieces/astro-essentials-super-plossl-eyepiece.html which should help with the DSO finding and observing. I see that vlaiv also recommends changing the star diagonal, so it seems I will have to spend some more money! Of course you will never meet all expectations in one scope but, given your requirements, I think a small MAK is a good place to begin.