DaveL59

Now am envious for sure. I have a dirty great Oak tree in my direct south from my very small garden so SSE-W is totally lost to me 😢 Kidding aside tho, sounds fantastic for getting great views regardless the scope you end up getting 👍

Did you mean all but one was bought used there Steve? For me the approach was different in terms of what I have and why, but I didn't enter the hobby until a couple years back and had specific equipment in mind. Having spend time rebuilding binos I got interested again and after researching around decided I wanted a TAL, either TAL-1 reflector or better a TAL100 refractor. That was based on good write-ups but of course those didn't come up first. so settled on a SW130 as it was reasonably local and a good price and to be fair it gives good views once it settles down after touching anything. Then a baby TAL came up not too far, the TAL-M in original wood case too but tatty looking from paint scrapes over years of family use. It might be a small 80mm mirror but it gives great views but you are limited to the TAL eyepieces, thankfully good. Missing the 25mm and the eyepiece extension tube, that's an issue to watch for when buying used, what's missing and can you get one now. Still, I used this a lot and the bigger SW130 slowly shifted to the back of the conservatory. Mainly it is compact, easy to lift outside fully assembled and at the end walk it back in again, no messing about. Meantime kept an eye out for the ones I'd originally wanted as this baby TAL hooked me on the solid build and longevity. So then the big frac, a TAL100RS in Coventry so a long round trip but well worthwhile. Now I'd have stopped there but a TAL-1 came up local with the russian size eyepieces so went and got that just for the 25mm eyepiece, crazy boy! That scope has not been adapted to the regular 1.25-inch eyepieces too and I much prefer it to the SW130 regardless a slightly smaller mirror, its just more stable. I did eventually strip the TAL-M down and refurb it so it looks almost new now too. The SW130 barely sees the light nowadays tho, sadly, too much kit between it and the door being one reason lol. For what its worth tho I prefer the Frac views, even the cheap LT70 is actually pretty good and while that's here its the grab & go for quick sessions as its very light and easy. Is why I'd happily recommend it (or the 80 version) for the starsense and ease of use at low entry cost. As a newb myself back then, finding stuff that wasn't obvious was a drag esp when tired eyes after a long workday were struggling, so I quickly dropped to moon and planets. Now having bought several scope (and made a little TAL collection 🙄) I wasn't going to give up completely as the planets are fun to look at, but I might have if Starsense hadn't come along. As several others have said, its a game changer esp for those new to this lark. Much easier to set up quickly and use compared to the SynScan GoTo and no power requirements to drive it so no hidden costs once you have the scope in your mitts, well other than usual eyepieces, diagonal, barlow.... 😉

There's a certain degree of truth in that and in my case like you, learned by doing and buying cheap and fixing up. But those bressers retailed new for around £15, £20 tops IIRC so are they really worth spending £10 on when they're out of whack? There's better quality ones out there like older Swift models after all. Another reason I didn't suggest it was easy (is it, to do it right?) is that I could easily see the outcome in picture C in WJC's post, some of the ones I've got hold of cheap were just exactly like that. Sure they seemed aligned when you look, images merge ok etc, but what you see is offset from what you aimed at. For me if looking at a bino that's misaligned generally it'd need to be one that I wanted for the collection or have some reasonable worth/rarity, like the Nikon Sportster EX 8x25 that I got also for a tenner and were out of alignment. A bog standard low-end porro pair I'd pass and look for something better. In my case I picked up a mint pair of Minolta Classic sport 10x50 WP for £22 a couple years back which I think were much more worthwhile and no work needed on those at all. Unless there's an urgent rush to get something/anything then OK, but if prepared to wait and search, you can find the pearls scattered in amongst the dross. Sorry if OP feels he missed out because I suggested it wasn't worth it but that's the reason behind my thoughts.

well it was an attempt to steer vaguely back to the top of what to recommend, just figured we'd probably hit a natural end to the way it started but then comments about going to a proper scope show and new not used got me to thinking a different "why?" We've had several arrive here asking for help on something they picked up off cheap online or department store sources and easy to see why they struggle with those. But occasionally someone asks regarding a used item on the bay or elsewhere, sometimes as is cheap or other reason. Some of those are very much not worthwhile of course but sometimes you think "drat how had I not seen that one!". Either way help is forthcoming from the crew on here as we're a nice bunch, really 🙂 That TAL-1 I popped into the original thread for example, now its a lot more than I paid for my non-motorised one but knowing how solid they are and the mirrors are good quality, to me worth a look. It'll be way better than a lower end SW or similar on EQ2 type mounts for example. OK its limited maybe if it has the older 32mm focuser but even then very usable, tho this one sounded like it took 1.25-inch. Could be wrong, again ask and do your own background research as you've also said and if poss, go look at it and chat with the seller as often they're quite helpful. But the way these are made, very simple and easy to repaint etc should you need/want to etc.

thanks @SthBohemia but there's one thing I did forget to ask @Gem85 and that was what's the aspect of the garden where they want to view from? Ideally faces south-ish with view to E and thu S toward the west. That'd give the moon and planets best as they rise and track across the sky. Fences and tall border bushes/trees can be a nuisance but if not too tall you can position further away to get a slightly lower view. With kids then the E-S region could be very useful as they won't have to be staying up too late 😉 Downside would be a north facing garden with the house blocking the southerly view. That's how I came across my SW130 as the couple that had it only had a north view so the hobby they were interested faded quickly and the scope just got parked in a back room. Now of course you may be able to use the front garden to get around that but street lights play havoc then, this couple didn't have much frontage tho so not an option for them. Of course you can make a trip to go somewhere with better aspect, harder with a clutch of kids maybe, but possible if the gear will all fit in the car along with everyone/thing else. I've yet to bother doing that myself, laziness a little but time when needing to do other things too. Besides, is much simpler at home, easy access to hot/cold drinks, the loo etc 😄

I resisted the temptation to post pics of mine but they can be found elsewhere anyways 🙂 So back on topic then... Think we've had a lot of debate on the dob vs other stuff side, but what about new vs used? Not sure but I think newbs don't get access to the for sale section and even so they'd have the same issue to understand what's being offered and it it'd suit their needs. Also the fact that used means no come-back for problems and no support to guide them over the initial bumps in the road to frustration. But then there's a lot of helpful folks here in the forum who've often given valuable guidance on how to set up, collimate etc. The risk of course is we suggest one and it turns out to be a bit of a dud, esp as we likely can't/haven't gone and checked it out personally. So far tho I've found that each scope I've bought and collected from the seller has been fine and the seller often extremely helpful in showing how it sets up etc. Obviously tho they are star gazers themselves and want you to be confident that you bought something good and will be able to enjoy using it. Perhaps I've just been lucky? Just seems to me that someone comes along, small budget and the starter options are pretty limited, yet out in the web or even on here there's a pretty decent bit of kit that might be significantly better for them at less or same price. I know a couple of us have popped those up into threads occasionally but what do folks think? (not trying to do FLO or anyone out of a sale here, before anyone thinks that, nor am I gonna try sell anything in this thread 🙂 ) PS - Almost all of my gear is used purchases, but I'll admit that being a tinkerer and having fiddled with binos and camera lenses I guess I was more prepared to take a risk after assessing, even buying something that needed some refurb tho was optically fine, just tatty paint. Inexperienced folks likely should be more cautious but then again how many buy a used car but aren't mechanics?

for someone new or with little experience with optical gear then yeah going to a specialist can help in terms of good advice and support but then again there's some good value kit available used at prices that new junk is offered at, just need to know how to filter good from bad. Good points you raised there tho esp the amount you can lift late at night when you're cold. For sure my gear feels heavier and when its cold more slippery too so extra care needed when bringing it all back inside.

awww so cute, one of mine looks so similar the other is jet black

you'll probably be surprised how little it shows up if at all tho because you know its there you'll look for it. Same with cleaning mirrors/lenses etc 🙂

Things sometimes shake themselves loose over time and use and mysteriously appear. Not sure re the eyecup threads as I don't have those ones but is possible that allowed a gap for something to creep in. Lenses are usually held in place with thin rings that do bear onto the glass at the edge, so its possible that's how that top lens is held in place. But if so the others under it would be too, removing that ring and up-ending the lens would risk a tumble of glass that you'd then have to figure out the order to refit so take care. You wouldn't be the first to ask how it all goes back together 😉

if I did that I'd likely fall asleep till the cats or other wildlife woke me 😄

What Louis said. Does it affect the view at all? If not ignore until you decide you need to open it up further to clean which might be never. Not impossible that it got there during manufacture or its not airtight and found its way in. What eyepiece is it?

Bino's are fine but craning your neck when looking high gets to be a chore esp in winter and for us who are age disadvantaged. A reclining chair/lounger does help there tho but one-handed probably would quicker find a tired arm and shakey views, 8x or less being more manageable for steady viewing. I use mine on a monopod more than tripod for the easier flexibility at least till my neck complains 🙂

so true, thankfully fiddling about with reflecting film to try improve the temps in the conservatory had distracted me enough to miss the chance to snipe on a pair of Swift Osprey 7.5x44 bins that I had on watch. And wouldn't you know it £24, oh well another bargain missed 😄

ouch that sounds like a weak way to affix the foot considering it'll be carrying the scope and anything else bolted onto it 😞 Would definitely limit what load it could carry. Sounds like tube rings would be the way to go if simply for ease of fixing. Hopefully no bits or debris are now rattling about inside.

Is there no reinforcement plate inside the OTA to spread the load once the foot is bolted up, or does it just bolt into a couple captive nuts? One other option might be to get a piece of steel strip of the required length, say 2-3mm thick, ideally with a curve to match the OTA and then drill/tap it to take the bolts and simply refit the foot that way.

me too, a small collection for fun quickly filled a cabinet tho I have managed to stop, mostly lol

ahh I bought all mine dirt cheap off the wonderful bay-of-E and DIY repaired/adjusted, same with many camera lenses. Some nice bargains can be had if you look for "for parts/not working" and with some understanding of how you might fix them are prepared to take a risk, like that big Tamron 150-600 lens I bought the other week 🙂 Besides, they gave me something to do while I was between jobs too, kept my mind alive and all that...

oops double post, sorry 🙂

trouble is if you ask "what would you like to see" the answer is usually "everything" and that's simply impractical for a single scope in most people's budget let alone one that's in the starter bracket. Thing is there's lots of "what scope" threads some similar to others in circumstances but then what's available changes year on year as well so folks tend to ask, either because they're struggling to filter the info that's out there or because it seems easier to ask but then get a barrage of probably conflicting viewpoints that they again need to try and filter. Doesn't seem to be an easy answer so far, or we've not yet thought of it 🙂

Since I'm visual only I just plop the thing out in the garden and get it roughly aimed North. Ok I have to make a tweak here and there if I was a bit out but generally works fine for me. Of course there's an app now to help you do better which I'll use if getting the GoTo out just to save any hassles with it finding stuff later.

thanks, I'd not seen that before. None of mine are at that price level, mainly TAL plossl or Vixen NPL with a few vintage ortho's and a zoom. I feel no need for wide AFoV etc. tho I can see the benefit with a non-tracking mount perhaps. That said, my scopes are all 'slow' which is easier on the eyepiece 🙂

I bought a Nat Geo 76/300 tabletop "dob" and its terrible to use, likely much as the firstscopes of similar type. But then that's not a fair comparison point against something like the flextube 130 and I'd only bought it as it was £10 used, very local and at the time I was thinking of the grandkids. Quickly realised that it'd be useless for them tho even after tweaking things to make it smoother, just a totally impractical design IMHO.

can be, but the starsense ones are all alt-az and some GEM's can be operated alt-az too, just set the latitude to zero or 90 🙂

That was pretty much the point I was trying to make. Of course that I prefer a frac lends others to think I'm more sided that way in option and it becomes a dob vs frac debate which wasn't the aim. It is true that I prefer a tube+lens vs a bucket+mirror aesthetically and I wonder how many look at a newt/dob and think "that's a telescope???" as on film/TV you usually see a frac lurking in the background but never a dob. Was amusing to see it all start with huge dob, 200 this etc then it tailed to a probably more sensible folding 150/130. Likely easier to manage for a young family, after all kids take up crazy amounts of space with all their own stuff if memory serves. And three well I do remember how that was both as a kid and my own brood, barely room to swing a cat as it were! We're all of course assuming this will be a new hobby that will develop a lifetime interest for them but it may fade quickly just as easily, so a nice starter setup at reasonably low outlay seems a good way to start off esp in the economic climate we're now in. Anyways, hopefully she'll read all those responses in the thread and ask more before dropping a wedge n some light gathering kit. For sure we'll be happy to help spend the cash, hopefully on the best fit for them rather than ourselves 😉