teoria_del_big_bang

Sorry to the OP, my post seems to have made this thread take a different route.

I really just wanted to tell the OP how I had improved the Rpi performance and also increased the memory, I say I it actually came from advice of @gilesco and very pleased I went this route.
There are many routes you can take to operate your rig with a remote computer and over the last year or two have tried about all but using a ZWO ASIair Pro.

My findings were that yes you can get a very good workable solution with a RPi 4 4G and standard case for not much over £50, probably even okay with RPi3's for less. And can power from various 5V supplies for very little.
It works but I did find some short comings, as others have. It did become quite slow when it warmed up a bit  or the processor was busy and I did have some freezes and had to do some reboots.
I know others have had similar issues maybe not quite the same and some issues may be of our own making such as various cameras use more processor power or just too many USB connections - I really am not techy enough to know what but as many have got this sort of setup to work then it must sometimes be down to the equipment or poor drivers for some equipment.

I also have used a pretty high powered remote computer running Ubuntu with KStars, EKOS / INDi etc and yes that ran flawlessly.
And yes any sane person would just stick with that setup as it just runs, but I like messing about with RPi's and seeing what I can do so when the RPi4 8Gb came out I had to get one and see if it was any better, but at same time I saw the blog from @gilesco about using the SSD and the case that was made for this SSD and again had to try it. I didn't need to and no it will not improve my images (unfortunately) but I just like to give things a go.

If this now works without the freezes and I get any other improvements I will use it as it is much lighter and much cheaper to replace if I have an accident as unlikely I need to replace the lot, probably just the Rpi, probabaly will replace at some stage anyway when another version comes out if any significant changes and improvements.
I may also sell the much more expensive remote CPU and use my older RPi in the all sky cam I have been on with and need to finish.

So yes there are many ways to run KStars and the rest, and not sure  yet which is the best way performance for Buck wise. Maybe  I will get there and curiosity also makes me want to try an ASIair Pro as well, especially as my cameras are ZWO.

So once again sorry to @Ags for taking his build thread off track, but as there is so much going on with RPis and other remote computers maybe a thread for people to list how they are running KStars / EKOS / INDI via a remote computer may be usefull for people to see what others are doing and to get ideas from ????

Steve

19 minutes ago, gilesco said:

Bear in mind that the case comes with a fan, which is PWM controllable in software, power to the Pi is provided via GPIO circuitry not the side USB C side connector and has a smart power button to cleanly shutdown Raspbian rather than  just cut power, and of course it also contains a USB to M.2 SATA circuitry. So rather than being just a case it is a bit more than that. 

Yes absolutely.
And to ditch your current case and but this one is maybe not the best way to go but if you are just shopping for your Pi and case then as a good passive cooling case is about £15 to £20 anyway for the extra £20 or so I think you are getting an awful lot.

Also not checked but the 240Gb  SSD I got seemed a bargain at £27 otherwise would need a seperate portable SSD which I am sure will be more than that price and then you need to hang the portable drive somewhere. 
As I said it certainly isn't the cheapest case but I am certainly glad I now have one 🙂 

Steve

I know it can be done in PhotoShop using layers but never used Gimp. So definitely can be done just needs someone is is proficient with Gimp.

Steve

8 hours ago, Paul M said:

I'll follow your progress with interest!

So far your story is the same as mine with Astroberry and an ASI178. I also have a ASI120mm guide cam.

As with you it all went swimmingly. I loved the whole package. Unfortunately it never delivered in anger. My trials and tribulations over the summer were well documented here. I was deeply disappointed. 

My suspicions focus on the Pi's handling of the ASI USB traffic. Any way I hope you don't suffer any of my woes. I'm in a minority. Most users have few issues.

Enjoy!

Yes I saw your threads and in a way very similar to some issues I had with my RPi 4 4Gb running AB.

Generally I loved KStars and the setu of EKOS / INDI is fantastic the way it is all laid out, so easy. I also like KSTars in principle, the only thing I did not like (and still do not) is the clunkiness of the planetarium and poor graphics. After using Stellarium previously the planetarium on KStars is poor by comparison.
But, I do not sit there all night looking at the planetarium when imaging and whilst my Pi is imaging I can use either Stellarium or something like SkySafari to look at what DSO's are about and maybe plan my next targets separate on my laptop. So I have stuck with it controlling my imaging sessions. 

I did suffer some freezes and odd issues that meant a total reboot but fortunately never happened whilst in a sequence was always at start when setting things up and maybe the load on the processor was high, or I did start to think it was the rocesser getting hot and throttling back on its speed. Anyway for the actual imaging sequences it did work just the frustration of these freezes at the start quite often.

I have now bought another 8Gb RPi 4 and the case in post above and now boot from a SSD drive and taken the SD memory card out altogether.
Initial tests it looks much slicker and has been left running for days without any freezes or issues and temperature with this case never got above 50 degrees (so although it has a fan it never came on only using the passive cooling). 
Now I haven't actually had a session with it as yet this is just daylight testing as the weather has seen to that but eager to see if my woes have been put to rest.

I have been told I will not see a significant improvement with the 8Gb compared to 4Gb so probably not that tat will help but the addition of the SSD should. Fingers Crossed 🙂 

Oh by the way as it was not expensive I am also trying StellarMate OS (under £50). To be honest I cannot see any difference to AB, all features are identical. From anybody not technical at all though it was real easy to install (easier then AB I thought anyway) so maybe worth the money to avoid some frustration, also it doesn't keep telling me I am in oland which was a bit of a pain with AB even though probably my ignorance 🙂 

Steve

28 minutes ago, pete_l said:

Yes, I have a couple of Pi4's in cases like yours. They are sooooooo much better than the little plastic cases with cheap fans. I run my Pis 24*7 and it is inevitable that after a time the fans become noisy. And when they do 😬 they are noisier than any of my "proper" PCs. So I am a great fan (groan!) of these cases. The only gripe I have is that there is no obvious way to attach the cases to anything - no screw holes, unless you want to use self-tapping screws in between the fins on the heatsink.

P.S. did you know that you can attach a SSD to one of the USB3 ports and then (after a software re-config) dump the SD card altogether? You get a vast speed improvement as well as more storage.

Yes I have just started to boot from a 240Gb SSD and the improvement in performance is very noticable.

For under £30 it was a no brainer. 240 GB Internal SSD but you really then need this case which is by far the best case I have found., its cooling is superb, it has a proper on and off button and fits the previously mentioned SSD ArgonOne M2 Case.
Yes the case is not cheap and again no real means  of attaching it to anything and I will print something on my 3D printer that will do this. Another great thing with this case is that because it has a clever little right angled board inside for the power and HDMI sockets all the connections are on one side of the case making cable management easier and it converts the silly little micro HDMI ports into normal size ports so you can use a standard cable (if the HDMI is ever needed - probably not in most cases for our use).  

Downside is you cannot get to the SD card but I no longer use it anyway now I boot from the SSD.

If you want more memory then there are these M2 drives out there up to 1TB I think but the cost was a lot more than this 240G and that is plenty for me.

Steve

Welcome to SGL

Steve

Probably not.

I don't know if this is of any help but the author of Every Photon Counts did a talk live on SGL right at the start of lockdown last year.
He covered a lot of the book, but but all by any means,, it is still available to watch.
making-every-photon-count-by-steve-richards

Steve

3 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Yeah definitely, I think thats a good shout. The past week here where I am it has been crystal clear all throughout the night. I just hope it continues for when I get my setup! I will certainly go out and test it though even if its mostly cloudy out. 

I'll avoid using any guiding or even looking into it for a few months until i'm comfortable with what I have now. Orion and Andromeda are quite high at the minute so I think they will be my first targets. 

I dont have any books yet, but i'm working on it  

 

I've played around with processing before for a milkyway shot but that was around two years ago.

It might even be worth posting in wanted on SGL as most imagers get this book and may be ready to part with it to save a euro or two. I have it but not sure I want to part with it yet.

Steve

5 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Thats something I may use down the line! I've played around with PI's before. It's amazing some of the things that they can do.

Haha, you deserve to give your fingers a break after all the help you've given me! Just to clarify, are you saying yes to that cable allowing me to take photos with APT?

Yes it looks correct cable, it certainly is just a usb cable with a normal plug one end and a small one the other that plugs into the camera.

Don't worry was the same for me and until you set up and connect everything it does not become clear.

Although it sounds counter-productive I really recommend that you set yourself up for many nights that maybe you don't even get a good image but just get your equipment working and learn how to sew to a target, platesolve, re-adjust the mount position and then start a camera sequence off.
Once it all works and becomes 2nd nature you then can but up and running in no time and you get most of the the valuable clear night taking proper images.

Quite often now if the skies are only partially clear I do not bother setting up (maybe rightly or wrong) but certainly in the early days any time at all I could get with any stars visible, so long as I could see polaris to polar align then I gave it a go, not to get any decent images because too cloudy, but just to learn the program and tweak in some settings, or get the software working.

It payed dividends in the end when the good clear nights came.

Also do not get too worried about getting guiding up and running for a while.
Yes it certainly helps to get longer exposures and maybe better images of the feinter stuff, but so long as you are polar aligned well then with a HEQ5 you should be able to get at least 2 to 3 minute exposures without noticeable star trailing , and thats all you need with a DSLR (especially one that is astro modified). The longer 5 to 10 minutes are really only needed for dedicated mono astro cameras using narrow band filters that only let a very small bandwith of light pass. I am not saying 5 minutes exposure will not help with broadband DSLR imaging, especially on some feinter DSO's but to start with there are plenty of targets you do not need that.

Most start with Orion nebula, if it is visible. It is bright and is a beautiful sight. Even 30 seconds on this gives reasonable images. 

Do you have any books on the subject yet ?
I really would say to get "Every Photon Counts", if that's the only book you get.  It is actually in very plain language understandable by all and covers all basics and also introduces you to the processing side which is a whole subject on its own.

I do not know if you have looked into the processing, which stacks all your images, adds the colour by debayering them (you need to take images in RAW data form which will look black & white but all the info is there to make them colour with the imaging software) and will also bring out the feint nebulas by what is called stretching the image. 
To start with a real easy bit of software that works well is "Nebulosity". it is not free but not expensive. I would not say it is the best but perfectly adequate for DSLR images and the best of all it is real easy to use and again loads of tutorials on it.

Steve

2 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Ah ok, I see. So if I got something like this would it allow me to take photos with the camera from ATP or similar? Sorry, these questions probably seem stupid. I've looked at guides before but nobody went into a significant amount of detail with setting up, so there are a tonne of grey areas for me.

Thats cool, I actually use stellarium sometimes to just have a browse! 

Yes

My shortest reply yet Ha Ha 🙂 

Steve

Just to add that when I started I had searched on line a bit and new some software was out there for the ameteur astronomer but until I actually started with imaging had no idea how powerful any of this was at all.

I now use KStars and INDI software which does basically the same as APT but is all on a Raspberry Pi computer that you can buy for around £50 and is the size of those big boxes of matches you get and sits on my mount. I then control it via wi fif from inside the house either via my phone (although the screen is too small for my aging eyes) or my laptop. Unbelievable.

Steve

There are loads of videos and tutorials out there to help set this up so it is not too difficult.

Setting up EQMOD/ASCOM for Stellarium/APT/Platesolve Environment

Above just one of probably hundreds.

Steve

Just now, AlanP_ said:

No need to apologise! Thats an invaluable piece of information and one that i'll definitely come back to once I have all of my equipment set up.

I knew of APT and it was the piece of software I was actually going to use once I have everything. It's very reasonably priced too so I have no issue paying for it. I did not realise the shear amount of things it can do though. Thats amazing! I think I will have to look up some tutorials or play around with it at least so i'm not totally stunned by it. 

So how does APT take photos if its not directly connected to the camera? 

Sorry, I guess it may depend on whether yo can connect your camera to a laptop via usb. Before getting into AstroPhotography I had never owned a DSLR so no idea if all can but I suspect they can to make it easy to download your pictures.
But assuming it can then APT can just detect your camera and take pictures, adjust the settings, you really do not need to touch your camera at all.

I don't use APT now but not because the software is not great. And, maybe APT doesn;t control domes I can;t remember c=but some other software does, and for you that doesn't matter (Yet).

If you also load up Stellarium you can even select the target in stellarium and APT will talk to Stellarium and go to the target you have selected, you can take a picture and in stellarium it sows where your scope is actually pointing (which more often than not is not quite whre you wanted it) and then give you the option to go to the target properly.

It is not all a matter of just load APT and Stellarium and away you go mind, there are other bits of software to load as well (free) and you may well need help to get it all working, I certainly did and not even sure of everything I did now, but  when you get it working it is such a big help it really is worth it.

Steve

46 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

I ended up buying an outdoor extension lead. One to power my mount, and the other to power my laptop. The mount will be connected to my laptop to control slewing along with my camera. I will be adding guiding in the future however!

Actually, your comment just got me thinking. I will be using a dummy battery pack for my canon, but what do I need to connect my laptop to my camera to take photos?

The short answer is you don't.

But, eventually you may want to start running some sort of sequence software.

Now I have only been into Astrophotgraphy just over a couple of years and when I started I thought I will never manage this. I could not believe how much software was available for both controlling your equipment and processing the images you take.
The sequence software that controls your equipment is somewhat mind blowing to begin with, most can control of your equipment if you want - mount, camera, focusser, filter wheel, camera rotator, even your observatory dome if you had one and are capable of being setup at start of night on one target take a number of photos all at same or different exposures, or different filters if you have a filter wheel, they can be programmed to re-focus every so often (if you have a focusser) , then when that target goes out of sight of line it can slew to another target and do the same again on that target and finally if you have an observatory dome they can shut everything down, send scope to a park position and shut the dome up. You can even get rain and cloud detectors (honestly cloud detectors) and if it is going to rain shut everything up safe in your observatory.

Now although I would love the observatory I am nowhere near that but I do use some of this software.

Even more amazing is some of this amazing software is free, or certainly pretty cheap.

Now to start with you certainly do not need to be doing all that if you had the gear it is all just too much  to start with. Important thing is to walk before you run and get some sort of images taken.
But you may want to start off with small steps. When I started with a DSLR I used APT which is a very good sequence software to control your mount and even can control your DSLR. In fact it works very well with DSLR's.
Astro Photography Tool
There used to be a totally free version that really had almost nothing lacking from the paid version.
It is very easy to use with great help files and manual.
I loved it and actually paid for the full version after a few months of the free version more because I thought the guy that wrote the software (and maintained it) deserved it. It was still cheap, less than £20 I think, and he was good at answering your questions if you needed help.

So you may want to take a look as it may help you a lot in the future.
Like I say not absolutely necessary but APT would be a good step into automating your rig.

It does complicate things a bit as you would need some other files and bits of software (ASCOM) which has the drivers to control your mount and camera etc. But once I had learned to use it I found it invaluable for finding my  targets accurately.
Once set up properly you can slew to a target, selected in APT not your mount handset,  but quite often you are not quite on that target the first time you slew from having polar aligned, you can then take a short picture and even though the DSO may not be in the picture because you are so far out, you can do something called plate solving and after a few seconds the program tells you how far you are away from the target and will then slew to the correct position. That really is invaluable when taking further pictures of the same target on another night and get the framing exactly the same so when you process all images together they all line up almost perfectly.

Sorry if this is all too much info to take in to begin with, I know it was for me and I had many frustrating nights getting it all to work but when it does it is amazing.
So do not worry about it for now start off simple to begin with you cannot possible do all of this to begin with but just thought I would let you know what is possible, and on a cold night the ability to take images and see on the computer screen the image quality and the framing as you take them, from inside as well if you want, really helps you than messing about looking at the DSLR readout in cold weather. 

Also on feint DSO's you will not see anything but start on the DSLR readout but in something like APT you can do what we call stretching the picture automatically, which basically brightens any dim object so you can see it.

Sorry I have rambled on too long now.

Steve

Not sure, if you want to retain the autofocus then you have to put some shim back in that is same thickness as the removed filter. But I found it best to send it off to the link I sent you above. It was not expensive and he has done this many times before so no chance of ending up with a useless camera.

Steve

4 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Cheers for that Steve.

So I should just remove the IR filter then in my case? I also want to purchase a light pollution filter of some sorts. Not sure if that affects anything to do with this. I was thinking of either getting a Astronomik CLS CCD, or an IDAS D2 Light Pollution suppression filter. 

No expert but I think yes it is just the IR filter.

I used a LPS-D1-EOS1 this with my DSLR, But which one, if any, you need really depends on the amount of light pollution you have, If streetlams then most mow are LED which means a lot of the older LP filters do not work. I would talk to FLO and explain your light polution situation and they will point you in the right direction (they will not just sell you the dearest filter honestlyt).
LPS-D1-EOS - Is in our opinion the BEST Light Pollution Suppression filter for astro photography with DSLR, colour and mono CCD cameras

Steve

10 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Im just reading through the tutorial here to get a grasp of what it will be like when I do it. This bit has me a bit confused though. What is the difference between a IR cut only and a full spectrum mod? Which one should I do?

Edit: This was meant for another thread, oops!

No worries, there is a good explanation on the following website, this is where I had mine modified, good service I think I had it back within the week.

Cheap AstroPhotography

Steve

Welcome to SGL,, I don't think you will have any such issues on here, by far the friendliest forum I have ever been on. Also a fair number of 3D printer gurus on here as well so have fun 🙂 

Steve

8 hours ago, AlanP_ said:

Hi all, appreciate all of your advice! Seriously, this is the best forum i've come across!

I actually just stumbled upon this which I thought was a great deal as its double the price in most other places: https://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/products/Trailing+Sockets+%26+Leads/Masterplug+Pro+XT+Reels/Pro+XT+4+Gang+Case+Cable+Reel+with+Switch+and+LED+15m/491174262

I also purchased an RCD adapter to plug it into. I just need to find a weatherproof box big enough to fit it now... 

I actually have a microwavable pouch at home that sucks up any moisture in the air, I use it for my car to stop condensation on the windows. I think I will throw that in there when I'm imaging on a cool night. It will at least help a small bit if anything. 

Thanks again for all your guys help! I'm sure i'll be back tomorrow with more questions 😂

No problem and it is certainly the best and friendliest forum I have ever been on, maybe the natural nature of astronomers, some of the carp fishing ones I have been on the language and attitudes can get quite naughty, even the model railway ones I have been on I have seen some very heated arguments (would you believe it ?).

The link I gave you to the box I used had various sizes available, I think mine is the smallest available the others range from bog to huge, they are super strong and also will act as a storage box to keep everything in.  

Personally I would not throw the silica pouch in.
I am sure with the lid on no moisture will ingress especially if the power supply for the mount is in there (and maybe others later on) as these will keep it a little warmer inside the box than outside and so any condensation will be on outside of box not the inside.
I am not certain, but, if there is a lot of moisture in the air the silica gel pack could draw moisture in from the outside and if it gets saturated may start to drip water on stuff. Maybe not on a 3 hour session but I am sure you may have longer sessions later.
If you do I would put it in the bottom of box and make sure the electrical stuff sits above it somehow. I would just leave it out so far not heard of anyone using these like that (could be wrong thought). They use them for storing scopes and eyepieces etc but not during the night (I think anyway).

Steve

Yes pretty sure that's the one, but FLO give great service so when your mount arrives take a picture and ask them via email, they normally answer pretty quickly.

Steve

This shows the lip cut away

And then with lid on

Steve

THIS is the box I used. It is not designated as a dry box but really is more than good enough to keep dew off things for a night and together with the waterproof extension would be more than safe.

I just had to cut some of the lip of the box itself away (not the lid) to get the cables out and could send pictures of what I did.

They are super strong (supposed to take the weight of a car - but not tested that 🙂 ) and well big enough for a number of power supplies with plenty of space around them so they keep cool. Then at end of session just coil all the leads up and it acts as a storage box for the extension and just leave all the power supplies plugged in inside the box.

Just a thought.

Steve

13 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Appreciate the suggestions all.

I've just found out I am a very indecisive person when I have been trying to decide what extension leads I should buy...

Would it be overkill for me to buy this along with the weatherproof box along with the RCD plug? I'd prefer to be on the safe side, but I'd rather not spend money needlessly too if it would be too much. 

 

Up to you really. If using a RCD I don't think it is necessary. I would say the box is a good idea and as the 15M extension is not much more than one without the splashproof covers then go for it, the plugs should be kept dry for sure.

Steve

22 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

What are your thoughts on this extension lead? - https://www.screwfix.ie/p/masterplug-ldcs2510bq-4rcd-xd-10a-4-gang-25m-cable-reel-240v/55494

 

Its RCD and it says its for outdoor use.

It would be okay, just make sure you unwind the full 25M even is you only need 10M. You should not use extensions with some cable wound on the reel the cable can get really hot and melt the insulation.

It is probably a better idea to get a waterproof box as @SMF suggests above. That way the power supply for the mount, or whatever, can fit in there as well and be kept safe from moisture.

On one of the links I sent to the other threads I show the homemade box I made.

The boxes do not need to be absolutely water proof as we only need to keep from dew really as we will not be out if its raining for obvious reasons, although if you go to bed and leave it imaging as later you may do with some automated sequencing software on your laptop, then you never know but not a good idea if you think clouds may appear.
I tend to keep them off the ground a bit maybe on a chair or other box to stop them getting so cold so really have never had much dew condensate on it anyway.
BUT after a session it is always a good idea to switch everything off, then unplug extension from mains (with dry hands) then dismantle the box and power supplies.

Steve