geoflewis

Following my earlier post....

....here is the main course, well most of it anyway. I've processed 5 sets of 20 SERs through derotation and the rest, so will let the pictures speak for them selves.

Not sure why the 3rd image has turned out a bit bluer than the others, but it is also the sharpest, so maybe that was from when I had the clearest sky and best transparancy. The processing for all images was almost identical.

I still have 2 set to process, which I will add later, but I'm totally whacked and offered to show a friend my processing techniques tomorrow so will leave them for that.

Thanks for looking.

THose are really nice images Stuart and the animation is different, but very cool 😎

17 minutes ago, Barv said:

Hi Guys

Well, it's a repro of sorts, but with increased data. I did mention to Stuart, - (Space Cowboy), that I had more available data to add to my previous efforts. So here is the result, with double the original data. There are now 10 individual images, that were combined in Winjupos, instead of the initial 5. 

The image has become less noisy due to this, with detail I think that is easier on the eye. Personally, I think I prefer this colour pallette. would be interesting to have your thoughts?

Thanks for looking

Clear Skies!

Harvey

That's a stonking good image Harvey and I also like this colour palette. Jupiter is really colourful isn't it, I love to view it at high magnification through an eyepiece and better still though binoviewers with a pair of 19mm panoptics (mag approx x200), though haven't got those out this year yet. It's truly a beautiful object.

3 minutes ago, Barv said:

Of course Geof! I wasn't being critical, I really admire your patience and enthusiasm, and as you say, you never really know if it's gonna get better or not. I look forward to hopefully seeing the Gifs. 

Best

Harvey

THanks Harvey, I didn't see your comment as criticism, though my wife thinks I'm mad. Sitting outside under an open sky in the same position this time of years is perhaps more madness than anything else. I was very cold when I finished, literally shaking more than mere shivering, so I had to make a cup of tea and have a hot water bottle tucked into my shirt to calm me down before I went to bed. Feet and hands were frozen (not literally of course, but very cold) 🥶. I never really warmed up even in bed, so was still cold when I got up at around 9:30 this morning. We don't have the CH fully on yet, but I relented and turned it on for a brief burst about 1 hour ago.....

5 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

@geoflewis amazing detail. Do you track on Jupiter?

Thanks Adam,

No I don't track, I just sit by the scope and give the mount an occasional nudge with the HC to correct any slight drift. The AP1200 is a sterling, if somewhat vintage, mount with very low PE so it tracks very well on it's own.

15 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Great image especially under subpar conditions.

1 minute ago, Barv said:

Well done Geof! I admire your patience! I've never bothered attempting to image under those sort of skies before personally😉

Thanks both, I probably also wouldn't image in those conditions, but It's the 1st time I've caught the GRS early in it's transition and the seeing was pretty good, so with Europa also in play, I just kept going. As it's been said before, it's the seeing that really matters for planetary imaging, so good seeing with poor transparency always trumps great transparency in poor seeing. There were a few times when I was ready to pack up, but looking over the observatory wall kept promising another clear patch, so well what can I say, I just kept going.....

I was out again imaging Jupiter for 3.75 hours capturing the GRS almost limb to limb and almost all of the Europa and it's shadow transits. During the session I captured 132 x 1m SER videos, totalling 330GB of data...!! I had to stop when my imaging laptop SDD was full, but by then the transparancy was getting very poor due to thickening clouds. I'd been capturing between and through variable cloud much of the session, but the seeing was good, so I thought it was worth persevering. Here are examples of what I was imaging through...

No way would any DSO imager capture during those conditions.....

....but, I promised a taster image, so here is what I got from the best 2000 frames from a single 1m SER.

It's a little soft and noisy, but the GRS is in full view, Europa just made contact and it's shadow is already transiting. The resolution should improve once I've processed a bunch of SERs then stacked and derotated the resulting TIFFs. I'm looking to put the best from ~15 videos into each image, so +/-30k frames each. If all goes well I might also produce a rotation GIF of the entire session. This lot is going to keep me busy a couple of days I think, not least cleaning up the smeared Europa & shadow transits after derotation; hence the taster image....

Thanks for looking and watch this space.....

1 minute ago, Kon said:

Excellent set of images. I am finding the around 10ms range to be giving me better results too even under so and so conditions. Less noisy.

Thanks Kostas, yes I think something in the 8ms -13ms capture speed seems to work best for me on Jupiter. I went faster with Mars last year, down at 3ms some of the time.

Despite the uncertain forecast I headed out again last night to image Jupiter. I think I've got all I can expect from Saturn this aparition, so it was a later start, but with Jupiter at a higher elevation, which was good. The seeing was average to fair when I started, so I experimented with some different capture speeds, setling on 5ms (180fps) for the first couple of sequences to try to freeze the seeing. This creates bigger files per 1m SER and I wasn't convinced that I was gaining much from the extra frames, so paused to experiment some more with slower captures of 8ms (125fps) and 13ms (76fps). To me 8ms seemed to his the sweet spot of speed and SNR, so I stuck with that for the remainder of the session.

As Jupiter got to its highest elevation the seeing suddenly improved, so I tweeked focus to good effect before tha last two sequences of 20 videos. The best result is the 2nd last image from the sequence, as unfortunately fog started to develop quite quickly, so much so that was sitting in thick fog in my observatory by the time I finished.

Below is the best image from the sequence, followed by a series of six images that I created from the more than 70 SERs that I captured.

For the first 2 images I stacked best 2500 frames from each video, the remainder best 2000 frames reflecting the different capture speeds, but both being ~20% of total frames per video. Each image comprises between 8-11 SERs, so maybe 10m-15m elapsed time. Images were graded and stacked in AS3!, slightly processed in Registax6 to give WinJups derotation something to work on. The derotated stacks were then taken into Astrosurface for further wavelets, noise reduction, colour balance and saturation. From there they were taken into Image Analyser to use the frequency domain filter, colour noise removal and final colour vibrancy tweeks, with a final levels adjustment to shade the edge of Jupiter to enhance it's 3D globular appearance.

The session ran from just after 11pm BST on 26/10 to 2:30am BST on 27/10. Everything, including me, was wringing wet from dew and fog by the time I got indoors.....!!

Thanks for looking.

1 hour ago, orly_andico said:

I ordered a couple from allbatteries - let's see where that goes.

Good luck and please do let us know how it works out.... 🤞

32 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

I have been following this thread with interest and was going to offer to solder a replacement - then read @malc-c had made the offer.

A bit of background to help others...

Catalogue distributors like RS, Farnell don't have particularly good technical support. But they are better than many 'catalogue' distributors.
Often the people you contact don't understand 'near enough' or 'almost' or 'similar'. They can only work with exact part numbers.
A specialist distributor like Allbateries do understand cells and batteries. They can offer tagging/wiring services and more.
But quite honestly an enquiry for one cell it isn't worth picking up the phone.

Carriers have varying rules about shipping lithium cells/batteries.
As a general rule if it is in a holder in equipment that is OK. But you cannot ship loose. Though some say a blanket NO NO.
So you put a cell in a cheap holder and it falls out in transit. No worry!
You put a cell in a poly bag surrounded by bubble wrap and that is not allowed.
In terms of hazard, coins cells are quite safe unless ingested. You can knock a nail through them to short circuit. In a fire they explode a little.
Now cells like those that power your phone or drill are something different.

Unfortunately many carriers do not understand and shippers tell lies.
I once had a large shipment refused because it contained one coin cell inside equipment.
Not long after I saw two HUGE lithium packs (Segway type scooter size) that were not air transport approved.
The first was faulty on arrival, the second was a replacement.
These were shipped from China to UK, by air freight.
When you have seen the stupidy (or lies) from some people trying to ship, you can appreciate why carriers err on the side of caution.

The CR series cells have an easy naming convention, used across manufacturers.
A CR2032 means it is 20mm diameter and 3.2mm thick. A CR2450 is 24mm dia and 5mm thick. you get the idea.
They are all 3V cells it is the capacity (milliamps x hours) that varies.
Given these are used at low current to retain a real time clock, or a memory chip, capacity is not that important.
OK a big cell lasts 10 years and a small cell only 3.

A suffix on the end of the part number is used to denote a tagged version.
Tags can be for wires, or PCB pins and can be in different orientations.
The suffix is manufacturer dependent.

If you buy a tagged cell, you can easily solder on your own wires.
You have to be quite clumsy to heat the cell enough to do damage.
If you buy an untagged cell, then buy a holder as you need good soldering skills to add a wire without overheating.

This leads on to the question of why was the cell in a PCB holder? Or on wire leads? Or soldered on the PCB?
It is a decision taken by a manufacturer for several reasons.

If a cell is soldered to a PCB, replacement is beyond the skill of a lot of users. Maybe the equipment is going to have a short life so cell replacement is not likely.

If a cell is in a PCB holder, there is risk of it popping out if the equipment gets dropped.
There is also the question of long term contact tarnishing - a big subject and it happens a lot.

However, on a PCB, if the cell leaks for any reason, you can corrode and wreck the PCB.
If a cell is on wires, the equipment manufacturer can place the cell out of harms way should it leak. The plastic sleeve can retain the spill.

Replacing a cell on the wire + plug is an easy unplug, not desolder.
If you can't buy the exact cell locally, then anything near enough with tags and solder/sleeve yourself, keeping the old plug/lead is an easy repair.

HTH, David.

As @malc-c said, what a great explanation, wish I knew that earlier this year, but is still a keeper for future reference..

22 minutes ago, malc-c said:

I guess it boils down to Geoff's confidence to remove the hood and extract the battery and then swap the leads over to a new replacement which can easily be obtained

Actually it's not me, but @orly_andicothat needs one now, as I got mine fixed by Astro-Physics during my trip to USA back in May, at not inconsiderable cost, as I just couldn't find a solution in the UK that I was comfortable with. Hopefully there's enough info and options here for @orly_andico to decide what to do.

1 minute ago, malc-c said:

I'm wondering if the original concept was that AP never envisaged the device lasting longer than the life of the battery

Well it's a $2 battery easily sourced in the USA, just seems not so in the UK. It's crazy that they do exist in the UK, but so far as my extensive research showed ONLY for onward supply to OEM manufacturers for their products. I have family and friends in USA, one of whom works for UPS, so I thought I'd get him to ship some to me. He was willing but fell at the first hurdle on completing the paperwork, as not allowed for air freight without special packaging, hence the £100 shipping cost.....

2 hours ago, malc-c said:

I would assume AP has a UK agent / distributor, and you purchased the device through a UK retailer ? - if so then I would have thought that  the retailer or the likes of FLO or RVO would be able replace the battery for you.

Nope, there is no UK retailer for Astro-Physics, hence the challenge. As mentioned above, I tried Telescop-Service Baader in Germany, but they said that Brexit made it too much trouble for them to supply such a low value item to the UK....!!

EDIT:

It was Baader Planetarium not Telescop-Service, so I've corrected above. Baader are one of only two A-P retailers/distributors in Europe. This is their reply to my enquiry...

Hello Geof,

I hope I have good news for you.

After our export dept. told me that shipping this battery will minimum 40 EUR plus price of the battery, plus import tax, plus...pluss... (which is close to what everybody else told you) I asked our UK representant Dr. Lee Sprouts if he has an idea how to help you. He came up with this link https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/lithium-button-cell-blister-cr2430fv-lf-renata-3v-285mah-pbl7312b.html

Looks like they ship to consumers in small qty. He says he used this store before and is sure it is not a scam, even if the partial French text in the product description is a bit surprising. Maybe you should just place an order, at that amount you don't take a high risk. I hope this solves your problem!

Best regards,
Michael
Michael Risch
BAADER PLANETARIUM GMBH

I tried allbatteries, but they didn't have any in stock in the UK and shipping from USA was >£100 for a single battery. I gave up after that......

7 minutes ago, Elp said:

https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/lithium-button-cell-blister-cr2430fv-lf-renata-3v-285mah-pbl7312b.html

 

That's great news. I tried them earlier this year and they said it would have to come from the USA so shipping cost was >£100. Maybe they now have some in the UK.....

4 minutes ago, Elp said:

A quick search of that battery finds a UK supplier on the first page. Obviously vet the supplier if you choose to make a purchase.

Who?

9 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Just took a look at the instructions linked to in a post above, so its a PCB mounted battery,  This 2032 has a 1ah capacity and appears to have tags in the same position

£3.37 inc VAT form Farnells (plus delivery)

Hi Malcolm,

You're clearly more familiar with the working of these cell batteries than me, but everything that I found online said that there is no equivalent battery to replace the CR2430. As an example see this extract from utmel site (full site link below quote).

"Coin-operated security sensors, such as the CR2430, are often compact and unobtrusive. However, because CR2430 batteries are wider than CR2025 and CR2032 cells, they cannot be used interchangeably. Even though  CR2025 batteries are slightly thinner, they can sometimes be substituted for CR2032 batteries. There is no actual equivalent for a CR2430 battery.  and they are quite an unusual size in the world of batteries."

https://www.utmel.com/components/battery-cr2430-3v-lithium-battery-cr2430-equivalents-and-cr2430-vs-cr2032?id=948

Personally I would not take the risk on a high-end, expensive item of kit.

5 minutes ago, malc-c said:

If the battery required is the same as that shown in Geoffs post above you can get replacements in the UK.  Most component supplier such as RS, Farnells or Mouser stock them, including ones with tags that can be soldered direct to a PCB.  If you are not bothered about the capacity (the 2430 is a 300mA battery) I have 2032 batteries (225mA), with the same plug sitting in my components draw.  If replacing the battery is a simple task (such as undo screws, remove case, detach battery, plug in replacement and screw the cover back on) then  drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you one.

 

Well that was not my experience. I contacted RS, Farnells, Mouser and a bunch of other suppliers and they did not stock the required CR2430FV-LF battery. I have no idea whether a different spec battery like the 2032 would work. From what i understand accessing the battery compartment in the HC is something of a pig to do, so in the end I resorted to geting Astro-Physics to replace it and update firmware and databases at the same time. Expensive, but guaranteed to work.

15 minutes ago, Elp said:

Do the lead contacts have to be soldered on? It's just metal on metal contact and surely can be secured another way onto the battery? I recently replaced a watch battery that had a custom plate stuck to it (you can't buy the batteries they're only supplied to the OEM), I managed to take the plate off the old battery and just overlaid it onto the new equivalent voltage battery and it still worked.

That's a good question. The battery is what retains the catelogue of non stellar DSO objects, e.g. Messier, NGC, IC, etc., so if the connection fails these need to be downloaded and reinstalled, so I think a very secure connection is desirable, but.... 🤔

5 minutes ago, LandyJon said:

A quick Google and you can get that CR2430 battery with pigtails, just need to solder the wires on.

not sure if this is what you ment, but desoldering the pigtails worried me with potential shorts soldering on to the new battery.

Having the pigtails from the factory and soldering your harness on seems easy enough ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=cr2430 battery with pigtail

£5 from ebay etc.

Hi Jon,

I tried all (well many) of those suppliers earlier this year, but they do not have any CR2430 batteries where the pigtails are flat (Renata CR2430FV-LF) rather than perpendicular to the battery as seen in those links. That may have changed in the past 6 months, so it's always worth asking, however, the suppliers that I spoke to that said that they could source them, stated that as they would be coming from a USA warehouse, the delivery charge would be in excess of £100...!!

@orly_andico Have you received the instructions from Astro-Physics on fitting the battery? If not, then this link might help.....https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/keypad/install-pigtail-harness-new-battery.pdf

5 hours ago, VNA said:

 

Hello, no VAT and no taxes on labour.
Taxes vary from state to states. But if it is under warranty there should not be any taxes.

VAT (Value Added Tax) is a European/UK tax due whenever value is added, be that for goods or services, so it will become due on re-import to the UK. It is unrelared to whatever taxes are due within the USA. This is not a warranty repair, but replacement of an expired battery in the HC that is probably many years old. The one in mine failed after at least 8 years as that's how long I've owned the mount and possibly 15 years as that is how old the mount was when the battery died since it's manufacture in 2007.

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Amazing! a big congratulations on your new grandson! 

Thanks, but he is a great grandson - mind you I've had lots of fun telling friends that I'm a great grandad and now a great 'great grandad', if you get my drift 😄

28 minutes ago, orly_andico said:

I may go down the desolder the pigtail route; or, if George can give me the part number of the pigtail and battery, make up a new set myself.

Do these photos help?

1 minute ago, Kon said:

We try to go once a year as both grandparents want to see the kids. A bit easier for my family who visits us here. I haven't been to Japan since COVID as foreigners where not allowed in for a while (I skipped this year due to work but my family went). Kids are well travelled already 😉.

That's good to hear...

4 minutes ago, orly_andico said:

So am I correct in assuming that HMRC will end up whacking me for taxes for the full value of the HC even if it originated in the UK?

As I understand it you will not have to pay import duty or taxes on the original value of the repaired item, just the cost of the repair, but you may want to check this page on gov.uk.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-outward-processing-to-process-or-repair-your-goods

13 hours ago, orly_andico said:

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has had something repaired/warrantied in the US.

My situation:  I discovered that my over ten-year old handpad has some display corruption and the battery is low. It needs a special battery with a pigtail and the vendor (AP) has advised that shipping the battery alone would incur a $120 "hazardous materials processing" charge if shipped - but this charge is not present if the battery is installed in equipment.  They suggested I ship them the entire handpad, they replace the battery, reflash the firmware, etc. etc. and ship it back. They said this would cost less or about the same as the $120 charge alone, and I would not have to replace the battery myself (which is a very involved procedure).

My concern is - will HMRC whack me for taxes?  the handpad is a $1000 item so it would attract a $200 tax if ever.  Anyone have any experience with AP gear sent to the US for repair?

I had the same issue earlier this year when the battery in my AP1200 HC died. I tried everywhere in the UK to buy one of these pigtail batteries, but they are not available to end customers like us. I found a couple of sources in the UK that had them, but they wouldn't supply to me as they only supply to OEM manufacturers for inclusion in their products. I also spoke to Telescop Service Baader Planetarium in Germany who are an AP supplier, but they said that the admin / paperwork since Brexit, meant that they would not ship a spare battery to me in the UK. My solution was to carry the HC with me on a holiday to the USA, ship it internally within USA and bring it back home with together with a spare pigtail battery (you can carry them in your carry-on, just not allowed in the hold. I know of one person here in the UK that carefully removed the pigtails from the old battery and soldered them on to a standard battery of the same specification, but that's not something I felt I could do.

Good luck.