iPeace

DISCLAIMER: buying a nice mount doesn't make me any less of a numpty. Still a fully paid-up, card-carrying member of that collective. I can only write as I find, but I really want to get this right as it seems that I'm somewhat alone when it comes to hands-on experience with this mount and you all deserve to get an accurate picture. Part of my challenge is that I have only a year's experience (and we all know that adds up to a limited number of actual observing sessions) with a limited number of different mounts so it's hard to tell how good things can actually get. This could be the best mount ever made without me knowing it; alternatively, I could think it's the Canis Globulars while you would wonder what the fuss is about. I'm definitely enthused, but your mileage may vary.

Intended audience is the visual, manual, alt-az mob. Probably refractor users. All comers welcome, but you won't find anything motorized, equatorial or go-to here.

So...what to say?

Height

With the tripod legs fully extended, the mount is at a nice medium height. At just over six feet (and shrinking) myself, I have no trouble observing all the way down to the horizon - not that that's what one would want to do. Targets lower towards the horizon can be observed standing upright; further towards the zenith, it's time to pull up a chair. You can, of course, retract the legs for a nice, intimate, sedentary lunar (sketching?) session. If you like to observe at the zenith whilst standing up straight, you'll most likely need to insert another pier; they are stackable and sold separately.

Weight

It's lighter than you would expect given its sturdiness and how solid it looks - the "open air" construction of the pier contributes to this. Significantly lighter than the combo it replaces (Ercole, extension pier, EQ5 tripod). Unloaded, it's a one hand job; all up with a TV85 I can move it about with two hands, but would not carry it any real distance like that. Won't try to move it with a 120ED on it.

Tripod

Very stable, very easy to use. Placement of clutch knobs well thought-out for access during adjustment. Feet have some lateral movement to follow uneven terrain nicely. Legs extend and retract very smoothly and quietly. No need for spreader or any kind of contraption to keep the legs in place. Makes me think I may give up on the idea of a Berlebach... hmmm, still reads like heresy. We'll see.

Clamps

Just plain wonderful.

Mount head

I have never used - or even touched - anything motorized when it comes to astronomical mounts (well, amongst the commercially available, that is). So, it's all manual for me. This is the best I've encountered, very beautifully built. Includes a nice convenient spirit / bubble level. The slow-motion control knob for azimuth is stationary relative to the tripod as the head swivels, so I find myself switching hands to use it as I move around the sky. I don't mind this, but you may prefer to fit flexi cables, which are not included and do require a small bit of DIY - check YouTube for this.

Solidity and stability

Had it out for two nights so far, once with two scopes, the TV85 and the 120ED, and once with the TV85 only. It's very solid and stable, any vibrations settle very quickly. The lighter, shorter TV85 was, as is to be expected, the most stable of the two while the longer, heavier 120ED was certainly as stable is it ever was on the Ercole.

Clutches

Very easy to adjust, very easy to fine-tune to get the exact amount of tension for using the mount in Ercole mode. For me, does the Ercole thing even better than an Ercole. Smooth and steady. Absolutely lovely-jovely.

Slow motion control

Very, very nice. This is the feature most people will be curious about, and the one I must take the most care in describing accurately. This is also the feature requiring the most attention from the user in order to get maximum performance. Get your assembly properly balanced; we can't blame a mount for what Newton came up with. Furthermore, it's easy to get the idea that it's not so great if you use it in the wrong way; don't use it to slew! Trying to cover larger distances in shorter time with slo-mo - basically, moving the scope about with fast twists of the knobs - will introduce jerkiness that will make your wallet twinge with after-pain. It's not meant to work that way. Switch to Ercole mode by loosening the clutches, slide around to acquire your next target - using it in "periscope mode" is a lot of fun with the right eyepiece - tighten up the clutches again and you're ready to track using the slo-mo controls. With the clutches tightened, the slo-mo is very smooth and precise, enabling effortless micro-nudges at high power. The tiniest of niggles would be that every so often, I notice that the worm gear is continuous (at least, I think that's it) because of a tiny "gap" in the action. Easily forgiven. I can make much (much much) smoother and smaller adjustments than I ever could with my GSO mount (which holds only a single, smaller scope). Perhaps as a result of it being able to so smoothly provide for slow, small adjustments, when you try to rush it you immediately realize it's not designed to be rushed.

Which brings me to another realization, perhaps more of a personal thing. In use, this mount is continuously providing feedback as to how I'm doing. If I'm paying sufficient attention to what I'm doing, the mount disappears; if I forget about balancing, neglect proper clutch tension, etc. I immediately get a gentle, unambiguous and intuitive reminder. Short of a - perhaps imaginary - mount that will handle any amount of ignorance on the part of the user without a squeak, it doesn't get any better than that.

So...?

It's expensive. Yes. Not the budget option. Let that sink in for a moment. Good.

For that outlay, you get an excellent tripod, a riser pier, two premium clamps and an alt-az mount that - IMHO - outperforms an Ercole and is at least as well made. Then you get slow-motion control which, if properly used, is absolutely dreamy, and probably as good as it gets without spending even more than this on the mount head alone (if you can indeed find any such thing, as it seems the T-Rex is, sadly, definitely out of production). And - less relevantly, perhaps - it's absolutely yummy to look at. Less relevant indeed; you could paint it the least attractive shade of glossy, fresh-spring-horse-dung olive with suspicious-looking 3-D butterscotch speckles and I'd still prefer it.

I'm sure humanity can do better than this. But for now, I'm done looking.

I like it very much. Can you tell?

Thanks for reading.

Two nights of clear skies on the trot. Can't be right. Will delay my full report...

Back in after a great session, including another instant star party, this time with the local constabulary. Apparently some neighbors had very thoughtfully notified the police of my activities in my front garden. So the local fuzz got a nice look at the Moon.

The AZ8 did a splendid job. I will gather my thoughts on this first use and try to write something coherent for those interested.

The one-liner would be something like: Already the best mount I have used and will get even better as I get more used to it.

Now for a bit of lunacy...

I'm out and I'm freezing, but I'm having fun...

56 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

You mention polar align on this, but why would you even think about it on an AZ mount, sorry just curious about this

Indeed. The point is, that this design is a rework of the GM8 - and it incorporates parts which are manufactured in the original manner. This part could have been used on a GM8 - it has the polar alignment opening required for that mount. On the AZ8, it's just a curiosity with a very nice cap. Pretty cool.

For those interested, look closely and compare the GM8 to the AZ8. It's like using a GM8 in alt-az mode.

Apologies for not making this more clear in my post with the picture.

1 minute ago, jabeoo1 said:

iPeace......Once the decade of cloud clears please do inform us of its superiority over other designs. 

Count on it. Anything in particular you'd like to know about, just put it up here, and I'll be only too happy.

In case there was any doubt that this design is a rework of the GM8, the polar alignment facility has remained...

36 minutes ago, John said:

The big test is when you use it of course. I'm looking forward to hearing about that almost as much as I am to using the Ercole !

Will have made landfall by now.

It is really, REALLY nice - can't stop grinning, it's starting to hurt.

First impressions:

• VERY nicely made
• SMOOOOOOOOOOOOTH action

From the bottom up, the tripod is very sturdy, and lighter than I expected. The legs extend and retract smoothly and surprisingly quietly.

The included pillar extension aligns to the top of the tripod using several protruding bolts, and is affixed with a single bolt with wing nut. It is high enough to ensure the TV85 clears the legs; a 120ED, however, will *just* touch a leg with its dew shield, so something to keep in mind. Not immediately inclined to get an additional pillar, but they can be stacked at will.

The pillar extension provides access to the azimuth clutch:

The clutch is very nice to work with, wearing gloves will not be a problem.

On one side of the mount is the altitude clutch, a similar item, works just as well.

Loosening the azimuth clutch to its maximum still keeps the slo-mo on that axis engaged; loosening the altitude clutch to the max. will at some point practically disengage the slo-mo there. Loosening both clutches...gives you back your beloved Ercole! In fact, a fully loosened altitude clutch gives even more smoothness than the Ercole, making proper balancing of the tube assembly essential. Indeed, proper balancing helps the slo-mo to great extent on this mount as well. Fortunately, if you've spent more than twelve minutes within twelve miles of an Ercole-type mount, you'll know all about proper balancing...

The supplied clamps come attached, and are VERY nice:

The slow motion knob for altitude turns as the mount head does; the one for azimuth stays put, so it is possible to get it into an awkward position, we'll see.

The slow motion action is very nice. It allows for very fine adjustments, and is very, very smooth. Is it perfect? Perhaps not. I suspect that it's nigh on impossible to get it any better than this at anything below double this price point. If you give one of the knobs a very short, sharp twist, you will get some wobble at the eyepiece, but it settles very quickly. If you go slow, it's... well, think of your own favourite metaphor for smooth and precise.

With only a TV85 on one side, I noticed no difference between using a counterweight opposite and not. With a 120ED, a counterweight becomes more desirable, or indeed, a TV85 to help smooth things out.

As it's been snowing out, and doesn't look like improving, there will be no "first light" - if that even applies, for a mount - tonight. I will surely continue my assessment and share it with all of you who may be interested.

In the mean time, if you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

It's here! First for some pics off the phone:

7 minutes ago, John said:

I will be very interested to find out about the Losmandy AZ8 Mike

I noticed it when it was 1st launched but it's quite hard to find much feedback on it. With Losmandy's reputation it should be really good though

 

Read a bit about it on Cloudy Nights; it can get pretty severe over there...

Let's just say I have had my reality check beforehand. Still went for it.

I'll be glad to share.

8 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

Ouch, that is one rather pricey AZ mount

Well, I certainly considered that.

I could have gone the other way, already owning a full-sized Ercole, I could have opted to add a nice Berlebach tripod for a bit less. Still appeals. I may end up there someday.

This time, I settled on letting some other well-loved kit go. We'll see.

Should arrive tomorrow...

I've ogled this for almost a year - but none of my suppliers have had it in stock until recently. Perhaps as well, for the time has been well spent with my Ercole mounts, one of which is now winging its way to a new location just off the Bristol Channel.

I harbour no pretentions; it could just be a big mistake. There are those who swear by Losmandy's products, and those who, frankly, don't. Having abstained from a SkyTee, I may well have purchased an overpriced, inferior alternative. The die is cast, though, and at least I may partake in the youthful joy of decisiveness as an advance against the adventure that lies ahead.

I do most of my observing with a TV85. Hardly requires a mount at all, you might think, and there are certainly cheaper alternatives. And I may well fall back on one of those if this doesn't work out for me. But I just want to try it, for I would otherwise always wonder: what if?

So, is there a alt-az, slo-mo Walhalla to be attained, short of a T-Rex, for the likes of me? You are cordially invited to find out.

It feels so coincidental that I have recently been conducting thought experiments on how to split up my eyepiece case into two smaller ones to improve my grab-and-go capability. Then, were I to find that I only ever used the one case...

...but the evidence would have to be pretty compelling.

1 minute ago, DRT said:

An unexpected £4,500 tax bill

 

Ah, quite. Hm. I understand. Didn't mean to bring that up.

I was actually interested in the selection criteria for the cull, for instance whether you found yourself observing at high power less often than was worth keeping the shorter Ethos eyepieces for, or something similar.

If there were no considerations meriting any such interest on my part, I apologize.

21 minutes ago, DRT said:

This...

Now looks like this...

So, do you feel inclined to share the reasoning?

1 hour ago, JOC said:

So these cases full of eye-pieces.  Are you all disciplined when you use them on a dark night and methodically put one away properly when you swap it for a different one. 

Yes.

15 hours ago, nightfisher said:

I now have a rather nice frac, yes i got the 120ED and i have been to a good friends house on the way home for a very pleasant social and first light, the ED120 was set up on a twin mount along side another well proven 120ED and performed superbly, looks like i have a keeper

Isn't that just perfect. My view is that the only thing we "really" get out of this business is good memories (apply terms and conditions as you see fit). This must be the most enjoyable, immediate and memorable way to confirm that the right scope has finally found you.

Any other 120ED and it wouldn't have gone this way. I say it's well worth the wait. Surely even @Stu must agree.

Congratulations!

49 minutes ago, Stu said:

You kept that one quiet John. Great scope, glad you are enjoying it.

Goodness Stu, even I knew about it!

13 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

The scopes are multiplying, i have just received a rather nice and completely unexpected gift from my good lady, this Brass alt az refractor, optics look clear and it has a lovely helical focuser, will this be my travel/ grab and go scope

That is simply excellent.

On 11/28/2016 at 20:19, F15Rules said:

My lovely Foxy the Vixen ED103s has made way for Lady Diamond, aka Skywatcher Black Diamond ED120 DS Pro..

Awaiting first light (maybe later tonight?:-)), and Lady D has a hard optical act to follow!

I've upgraded her with a lovely gold Moonlite dual crayford and Altair 60mm RACI finder.

Seen here on my trusty Vixen GP and heavy duty wooden tripod?

Dave

She's a beauty, and will not let you down. She is my workhorse and always gets it done. 

16 hours ago, Stu said:

Here is my new-to-me Vixen 102mm f9 Fluorite in action tonight. It is mounted on a nice Vixen GP mount with dual axis drives which in turn is on an AZEQ5 tripod with pillar extension. Some nice views tonight, not the best as the seeing was quite wobbly, probably due to buildings giving off heat and central heating flutes.

Anyway, very chilly out there now, you can see the frost on the scope! Here it is....

That's just excellent. 

The full suite of dew control makes this setup look cumbersome, but it is wonderfully easy to assemble and stow and a lot of fun to use. The Ercole Mini easily carries the TV85 without a counterweight, and the Induro tripod, surplus from @Stu, completes the package. Go anywhere and stay out all night without fogging up. Good times.