pixueto

Hi,

Those pics look good. its odd about the light metering, my 350D seemed to expose correctly, I was mainly experimenting with landscape mode that's mostly automatic and the pics seemed to turn out fine. could it be because the cfa leftover is still covering a decent portion of the sensor. anyway it shouldn't matter cause for astro images, you'd be using manual mode anyway.

did you remove the IR filter or replace it with clear glass?

with my 350D I removed the IR filter so the sensor is pretty naked!!. that affects auto focus, but its not a big deal. I should ideally get a replacement UV/IR glass, but the 350D glass is a lot more expensive than the 1000D, probably because of the thickness. I might just get some clear microscope slide glass cut to size for basic protection.

look forward to your astro testing.

cheers

Alistair

Thanks Alistair.

The sensor is completely naked as yours. I have the cover glass intact but I'm struggling to remove the CFA leftovers. Did you say you have a method to clean those bits under the microscope? This is what is holding me know. If I could remove them I would order a H-alpha clip filter so I could stat testing. Everything else seems fine... if it wasn't for the array leftovers...

Because the plan is to use the camera with a H-alpha filter, there is no need to add anything to the sensor, right? That filter should block IR light.

The filter you are referring to... is it the Baader filter? Bear in mind that the 350D came only with a filter so I would expect the Baader filter for that model to have some sort of anti-aliasing built on it -that will blur your images slightly in order to avoid moire.

How do you intend to use your camera? If you are going to use it with a H-alpha filter you wouldn't need any other glass, am I correct? If you go for a clip filter that would give you some protection for the naked sensor. Just a thought.

Thanks

I thought I didn't do justice to the camera with the photos I posted before so, here I go again, this time paying attention to light metering to avoid overexposure. The photos have been taken with a 50mm 1.8 nifty-fifty lens on a tripod. Again, the images were in raw format converted to jpeg without any demosaicing applied (apart from the overexposed) using DCRaw.

The image has been reduced to 26% (because of file size) but I'm showing too a crop at 100% showing the central region. I also show the original image that the camera took with its automatic light metering. You can see it was badly overexposed. The removal of the CFA has increased dramatically the sensitivity of the sensor. The camera estimated a exposure of 1/25 and ISO 800 but I had to go to 1/40 and ISO 400 to get the composition right. Thus, I had to go to manual, lowering the exposure time and ISO significantly in order to achieve a correct histogram. All photos were taken at F8.

I can't see any scratches coming up in the photo. As I said, I,ve also run a test for dead pixels with a number of dark frames at different exposures and ISO 1000. The test was both visually and using software which returned 0 dead pixels so the sensor seems intact despite the scratches created with the wooden tool?

Thanks for looking. Any comments welcomed.

Repeated post

I thought I didn't make justice to the camera with the photos I posted before so, here I go again, this time paying attention to light metering to avoid overexposure. The photos have been taken with a 50mm 1.8 nifty-fifty lens on a tripod. Again, the images were in raw format converted to jpeg without any demosaicing applied (apart from the overexposed) using DCRaw.

The image has been reduced to 26% (because of file size) but I'm showing too a crop at 100% showing the central region. I also show the original image that the camera took with its automatic light metering. You can see it was badly overexposed. The removal of the CFA has increased dramatically the sensitivity of the sensor. The camera estimated a exposure of 1/25 and ISO 800 but I had to go to 1/40 and ISO 400 to get the composition right. Thus, I had to go to manual, lowering the exposure time and ISO significantly in order to achieve a correct histogram. All photos were taken at F8.

I can't see any scratches coming up in the photo. As I said, I also run a test for dead pixels with a number of dark frames at different exposures and ISO 1000. The test was both visually and using software which returned 0 dead pixels so the sensor seems intact despite the scratches created with the wooden tool?

Thanks for looking. Any comments welcomed.

nice work. is this the 1000d?

you should be able to clean up the edges by scraping width wise under a microscope very carefully. needless to say, one wrong move and the golden wires come off.

just needs patience.

I'll take a video and show how the stubborn cfa areas come off with repeated scraping and without damaging the sensor.

cheers

Alistair

Thanks Alistair, that video would be lovely as I'm now stuck trying to remove those leftovers.

Yes, that's the 1000D. What I like about this camera is that it's relatively cheap, it has live view and the glass covering the sensor comes off intact relatively easily (the 450D wasn't difficult either). However, the cfa is quite difficult to remove completely, just as with my 450D practice sensor. If don't succeed with the 1000D monochrome mod, I might try with a 350D before giving up.

I'll eventually clean up the edges if/when those leftovers go away. What I'm trying to avoid now is hitting those golden connectors and having to buy another sensor without even knowing if this mode can eventually be pulled off.

Many, many thanks for your help.

Thank you Alistair. I've been learning DCraw to get the raw files without demosaicing. That's a very powerful programme, love it, but I had to enter commands through the MS-DOS console like the old good times.

I took some photos today and I'm showing some close-ups so you can see the effect of the removal of the bayer array. My light metering hasn't been ideal, sorry. I didn't pay much attention to that. The darkest areas are squashed microlenses on top of the bayer matrix.

Thanks

£69.99 or offers - I offered £50 - rejected - then £60 - ditto - then £65 and it was accepted. So I guess I'm now the owner of a 350D body for £65 The fun will be starting soon

I'll be following with interest your progress with this camera as I might try that model if I fail with my 1000D. Luis is obtaining cracking images with the 350D.

Nearly bought a 1000D off ebay today until I noticed it was collection only. Missed another at just over a ton. Been looking at prices of sensors as spare part - equal to or more than a new camera!! If another 1000D comes up at around £100 I might see if I can win it - just to have a play. It would be a pretty careful play though as I wouldn't want to blow a hundred quid toooo soooon

Gina, What about trying with a 350D ? This may interest you:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-350D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body-Battery-1gb-cf-Free-UK-Post-/300943689216?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item4611a44600

hi

well done

to fix the red tinge, bring up a whitescreen on your laptop or monitor, take an image of that and choose that image for a custom white balance.

I'll suggest saving it as raw+jpg.

I open the raw files in maxim and save as fits to stack in dss cause dss will always try to debayer cr2 files but can read fits files as mono.

as for the small bits, only way I've gotten rid of them is by repeatedly scraping on top of it with a wooden or plastic tool under a microscope until you see it dissappear. its like wearing it down.

the 350d is brittle and comes off easily but the 1000d, 600d and 450d are similar and leave these small bits behind.

Thank you Alistair. Are there any free options to Maxim where I can treat the raw files?

Thanks

Gina, forgive me if I'm saying something stupid (probably) but, wouldn't re-shimming the camera sensor solve the backfocus problem? The sensor can be moved forward easily another 0.33mm in most cameras.

My intention is to use a H-alpha clip filter only and add colour from another DSLR. No filter wheel.

The problem with passing the wooden tool repeatedly over the leftovers is that you eventually risk damaging the sensor. In my case it's worst as it doesn't seem to do anything at all. It would be ideal if we could find a tool to achieve that.

I've found an easy solution to avoid going over the edges risking damaging the gold connectors. It's as simple as using a couple of straight thin lines of masking tape at the back of the sensor plastic cover; the bit that attaches to the metal housing of the sensor. The receptacle for the LP2 filter has some in this way anyway. I'll do it if I manage to clean the bits of bayer array.

Everything else failing, maybe the best bet would be be to stick to the 350D for monochrome conversion since, apparently, there is a fundamental design difference in the way the array was glued and there is a better chance of removing the array completely whilst not damaging the sensor. The 350D still is an awesome camera -pity the lack of live view! Problem is, nobody seems to have been able to remove the glass over the sensor in the 350D without breaking it, right?

Well, I've been busy today removing as much of the Bayer array in the1000D as I could. This is what I found out today; first the positive bits:

-The scratches that inevitably (I think) are left on the sensor don't show up in the flat frames (or at least 99% of them won't come up if they aren't too bad). That's good news. Here you can see a picture of a typical scratch I left on the sensor (I left many like that one). I also include a flat frame at F36... yes F36 ! for you to inspect it.

-The glass covering the sensor in the 1000D is very, very easy to remove intact. I did it with a xacto razor very carefully and it took me 10 minutes.

-I checked for dead pixels and the camera is fine so I don't thing those scratches will have an impact on the quality of the photos.

Now the negatives:

I didn't manage to clean completely the sensor and when I went back to the bayer array leftovers, nothing seemed to work. The only thing that would remove them was a needle used very, very gently without much pressure applied. Now, some bigger scratches were left with the needle. I can tell how bad those scratches were or whether they would show up because I only tried this method with my canon 450D sensor (the practice one).

You can see in the flat that the sensor isn't very clean where in some areas I have been more successful than others. I thought that it would be a piece of cake to remove those tiny bits with the microscope but nothing seems to remove them apart from metallic things which would surely damage the sensor. Has anybody here been successful at this? Can somebody hep with this? Any ideas? I even used acetone with the practice sensor but it only removed the mocrolenses and left the surface uneven so I'd try to avoid using any chemicals.

Finally, How do you process the raw file guys? The images are appearing with some kind of artifacts/interpolation? They appear with a red tinge. Are those raw files not real, completely raws?

Thank you all for your help.

Those are good news Dave

The "debayred sensor brotherhood" is growing...

It certainlly show improved resolution and sensitivity on the debayred sensor, the IR mod 350 shows pixelated data because of the 1/4th resolution compared to the mono sensor, put some more time on it when you can.

Congrats, keep us updated plz

Luís

Maybe a new section should be created here on SLG for mono converted DSLRs? So everyone with this mod can post images and discuss? How do we get in touch with SGL to request this to be taken into consideration?

those files are all straight from the camera with no processing or stacking

Did you use a H-alpha filter for those images?

Well, narrowband DSLR imaging is worth a try so I took the plunge and bought a second hand 1000D to try converting it to mono. I've chosen this model because it's cheap, it has live view and there are sensors available on ebay at a reasonable price. If I rend the sensor useless I can always replace it by another second hand one.

My plan is to start removing the CFA only in some areas and reassemble the camera to test it with flats at different stops. I won't risk damaging the gold connectors with a complete removal until I see if this works. The idea is to pay particular attention to those areas that have been slightly scratched to see when those defects show up: F5/F8/F11? If they don't show, say at F8, that would be good enough as I intend to use the camera with a newtonian SW200P (F5) and a ED80 (Sky Watcher) at f/7.5

If the scratches don't come up at F8, I'll remove all the CFA in the camera spending lots of time removing the tiny leftovers using a microscope (easier said than done).

Is this okay? Is this a sensible plan or am I missing something?

Thank you for your help.

i wouldnt worry about the scratch too much. I've got similar ones on my 350d and they dont show up unlike the bits of cfa you still have left there.

just keep scraping on top of it under a microscope till you see it dissapearing.

its more like wearing it out rather than scraping. thats the bits left over.

you could also try a plastic tool on the blue area under a microscope. but since its harder than wood. it could scratch.

stayed with wood.

cheers

Alistair

Thanks Alistair.

The way I see it is that if you have a good enough tool or you are very skilful you might manage to remove the bayer array without leaving any scratches on the sensor. However, once you go back (through the microscope or not) to remove those tiny left overs, scratching the sensor in some degree is unavoidable.

Now, it would be brilliant to see whether or not those little scratches show up in flat frames at, say F8. Alistair, Luis, you have converted your sensors to mono. Do you remember leaving any scratches on them? Alistair, you said you did. Can you show us a F8 flat frame to see if they come up? I already saw Luis' flat frame and it's fine but he didn't mention if there was scratches on the sensor.

If those scratches don't show up in those flat frames, the procedure should be good enough, right? Will they have any influence on the amount of light collected/picture quality? If not, I would like to understand why. Maybe some of the bright minds in the forum can shed some light on this.

Thanks

I haven't found anyone who has successfully removed the cover glass from the 1100D sensor and AFAIK the few firms offering mono converted cameras do not include the 1100D in their range.

Yes, although I've given up, I'm still reading this thread with interest I still have my super-cooled 1100D lying around and if I ever find someone has found a way of removing the cover glass without killing the sensor I might just have another go just for the sake of trying it. An OSC camera is of little use to me as my main interest is NB DSO imaging. For most galaxies a smaller sensor is perfectly adequate.

Gina, I was thinking... even if the glass is attached to the sensor (which is odd because it would affect the microlenses's performance?) by removing it you would damage the microlenses and perhaps some bits of the bayer array but, surely, the photodiodes should remain intact, right?

Are you sure that's a scratch? What looks like a scratches on my sensor, gone away after I pushed quite hard and repeatedly over them with my wooden tool.

You might be right. It may be Bayer array or microlenses left over but my wooden tool isn't good enough to remove them. I've ordered some new paintbrushes to see if it goes better.

Thanks

Alistair, I don't think bonding material is much different between generations. I tried this method with heating on 10D, 300D and now 450D sensors, and there is no noticable difference between them.

But you must heat that glass really well and it will just pop off. Don't be afraid, sensor can tolerate more than 200C without any problem

Filip

Most people here think that isn't possible to remove that glass from a 1100D without damaging the sensor.

Hi,

Blimey...I'm sorry to hear that

That's strange, I also used a small paint brush handle, nothing special, I guess it's about the pressure applied on the surface, it has to be enough to remove the CFA but not enough to damage the underlayer, my practice sensor was too badlly scratched, so I'm sure you wil succeed in another try, but hey, why don't you try with that sensor and see how it goes? Maybe flats will take care of the scratches? Yep, the 450D sensors are quite pricey around 120 to 160 eur. on Ebay that's allmost the price of a complete body :/

On my sensor there was a very shiny surface once it was done, no visiblle scratches but I think that area you say was when I started scraping, I had to make some extra force to get it going at the begining.

Some more shots of the sensor for you to check, it may help:

Best wishes,

Luís

Unfortunately, I don't have a working 450D; that was just a sensor from a faulty camera. If I try again, I would go for a cheaper model as that would cost money now. However, I don't see the way forward. I seem to have damaged the sensor where all of you succeeded guys.

Flat frame here (stretched): https://dl.dropboxus.../slike/flat.jpg

I found 450D sensor very hard to scratch with wooden tool, in fact I did not make any...

That what looks like scratches are in fact leftovers of cfa matrix.

Thank you very much. In this picture you can see I scratched the sensor badly. I was struggling to remove the bayer array so I couldn't apply less pressure really. Now, you obviously succeeded with the same sensor. I was using a wooden paint brush, though. Any suggestions, ideas? I'm at a loss here. I would love to convert a camera to mono.

Hi all, this is my first post on this forum

I just sucessfully removed cfa from 450D sensor

I used proven method, sharpened wooden paintbrush handle. It was hard to start scraping, but I started with needle and from then it was relatively easy.

I removed glass window from sensor with ease and in one piece. I used hot air rework station with 5mm nozzle, with temperature set at 250C. Just circle

around the edge of glass and when hot enough bonding glue will turn white. From then you just need to pick up glass with the tweezers. It's so easy.

I still need to clean up the edges and some dust.

Full size image on the next link. This is with original IR/AA filters in place, so it cean be even sharper when I remove them. Only histogram adjust, no sharpening.

https://dl.dropboxus...7/slike/1_1.jpg

Filip

Do you think you could post a flat frame? I managed to get my 450D sensor full of scratches! Any tips, suggestions?

I wonder if that method for removing the cover glass could be used with a 1100D?

Well guys, the microscope finally arrived and I got a chance o having a proper look at the surface. I'm afraid it's badly scratched. Well, that was the practice sensor. If I'm going to continue with this now it's going to cost me some money!

I put just enough pressure so I could remove the bayer array which makes me wonder about the wooden tool. I used a small paintbrush.

Luis, in your videos I can see a bit what you've used. Could you please explain what is it and where you got it? I would like to have a another go but this time only using the same tools than you so I can eliminate variables and explain the failure: is it me? the sensor? the wooden tool?

Thanks Luis, Thanks Alister. I think I still have a lot of tiny bits of the bayer array left. The eyepiece helps Luis but not a lot. When I look at the golden surface at an angle under certain light there seem to be scratches. I can't really tell without magnification. Well if that's the case, they are all over the place! I wonder if they will show up in the microscope or in a flat frame. What about you guys? Can you also see that in your sensors? Your flat frames and photos are perfect, though. No sign of any damage (apart fron that little area in the right bottom corner)?

Well, I did just that. I used a needle to break the bayer matrix in the blue area (which is not used for imaging) and continued from there with the wooden tool. I have removed all the microlenses and the CFA as far as I can see. Now, I'm still waiting for the microscope but to me the surface surely should now be full of scratches, shouldn't it?

Hi,

it needs a bit of pressure but not too much of course.

if the tip is coarse enough it should bite into the cfa layer.

i noticed the 1000D was a lot harder than the 350D.

I just got delivery of my 600D. man is it a nice camera. feeling nervous about debayering it. replacement sensor costs almost as much as the camera.

but it has to be done.

i'll be doing it over the weekend and will post results.

wednesday should be clear out here, so hopefully the 350D and the 600D (if it goes well), should see first light.

Luis, since you got the sensor glass from your damaged 350d off in one piece, I'd suggest sticking that back on to reduce your condensation issues.

the risk with leaving the sensor open is that the moisture could cause a short circuit on those golden wires. so not advisable running it if there's going to be moisture.

I would suggest keeping subs to 3 or 4 minutes and using darks rather than cooling it. I'm thinking of building a custom body if I'm going to do the cooling, but that's a long way off.

I've also been thinking of adding an ED80 alongside my 10inchF4 on the NEQ6. that way I could use the QHY8L on the ED80 and capture RGB and simultaneously capture mono "L" with the B&W 350D/600D on the 10inchF4. that should reduce imaging time for LRGB. but differential flexure could be an issue. we'll see.

btw, you have some nice round stars and good tracking.

Cheers

Alistair

Thank you Alistair. I'm finding it very difficult to start breaking the bayer array. If I'm not mistaken, this is the first a 450D sensor that is being mono converted, right? Maybe this sensor is harder than the 350D or the 1000D? Most likely it's me not doing it right, though.