pixueto

i shot another picture, JPG and RAW directly from Camera.

how do i determine, that the bayer matrix has been removed completely?

While i was scraping, i got down through 2? coloured layers...

i don't know if i should try to go deeper on the Sensor, don't have a good solvent or a good tool to scrape... don't want to damage the sensor.

https://dl.dropboxus...54/DSC_1193.JPG

https://dl.dropboxus...54/DSC_1193.NEF

the removal of the cover glass on the d40 Sensor was the hardest part.

Got it removed with brute force, did a square cut with a glass cutter and drilled on one side into the glass, to make it break.

pried the Sensor Glass off one by one.

As soon the glass is removed, there were much less wires on the Chip, so the work could be done easily.

Scraping the CFA was a bit hard, i would say; harder than on my killed Eos 350D.

Greetings,

Tf2k

I've opened your raw file with ufodcraw and it's showing a picture in colour. Not sure what's going on here. It's as if the CFA is still there.

Gina, don't try to run the exe file. Simply copy it into the location:

C:\WINDOWS\

Then call cdraw from the MS-DOS prompt console

I finished my camera, everything is working great!

I leaved some CFA remains on the edges because I didn't wanted to push my luck this time. But I can easily crop this.

I am going to dark location tonight, unfortunately Moon is big but I just want to see how this work.

Last night I did some test exposures to see if cooling works. I can get 30C below the ambient without any problems with condensation.

This is 100% crop, stacked 10 exposures at ISO1600 and with sensor temperature of -5C.

Details and resolution is outstanding

Hi Filip. What control have you got over the raw files in your nikon D40? Are they real raw files? Do you think the solvent method will work with that sensor?

I'd think that the CCD should be a lot more sensitive than all the CMOS sensors we're trying

Cheers

Alistair

It's something I can't get out of my mind Alistair. It's also been said here that temoving the CFA from a CCD DSLR is much easier. It would be nice to have a go at, say a Nikon D80 or D3000. They are sold second hand at reasonable prices.

Now how good are these cameras for astrophotography? Is the noise ok? Anybody knows or can find some examples in the internet?

All you have to do is to download a named dcraw.exe and directly copy it in the C:\WINDOWS\ path to be accessible from any folder when it is called in the command line.

I'm giving you a link with a short tutorial with the commands you will want to use. It will tell you where you can download that file from:

http://www.guillermoluijk.com/tutorial/dcraw/index_en.htm

Have a look at it and let me know if you need any help with that.

Gina, you have to use it via MS-DOS console as it works with a command line. Are you comfortable with that? Not that it has any difficulty, really but it doesn't have a GUI.

Gina, it might be worth handling the raw file with DCRaw in monochrome without debayering applied. With a bit of luck, those lines may be artifacts created during the demosaicing process?

My dead sensor. I was working on the left edge, scraping and polishing near and on that blue layer and that killed it.

(ignore the fingerprints)

Full size image, if anyone is interested:

https://dl.dropboxus...ke/IMG_9169.jpg

Left side of sensor with something sensitive:

Your sensor is very clean!

How did you manage to avoid leaving scratches?

Dear all,

Has it occurred to you that it may be the epoxy itself the responsible for the malfunction? Am I right thinking that all the working sensors after being debayered in this forum (totally or partially) don't have epoxy over the golden connectors?

Got some charge in the 350D battery so have taken a couple more photos to check the sensor with low enough exposure to show some detail in the part with the CFA removed. Unfortunately, without live view I'm finding it hard to get the focus right. Without the filter the auto-focus is way out and useless.

That's really good progress Gina. However, you might find that removing the CFA in the 1100D may be much harder but if successful... what a camera have you got in your hands! The 350D seems to be a good candidate for a near 100% successfull mod, though. Waiting for my butane pencil torch to have a go at the 350D with the solvent.

BTW If I apply the solvent to the sensor, would that also remove epoxy?

The epoxy is applied No wires broken and all wires fully covered It was more difficult than I expected. The mixed epoxy was rather stiff and not much better when warmed up a bit. It wouldn't drip so I had to very carefully apply the droop on the end of a wooden toothpick to the sensor frame and again very carefully drag it along the edge of the wires while gently turning it. I did this under a 3x illuminated magnifier and my fingers looked as if I suffered from Parkinson's Still with a great lot of patience I succeeded. However, on lifting the pick away from the sensor a little whisker of glue dropped onto the sensor I wasn't pleased but then realised that it's on top of the CFA and should come off with that. Now I'm sitting down with a cuppa while my nerves recover!!

It's looking really good Gina. Well done! I'm thinking that, before applying the epoxy, maybe it would be a good idea to cover the sensor with something cut to size to just leave the golden connectors visible -maybe a piece of plastic/cardboard?

How are you going to debayer the sensor now? I wonder whether the solvent suggested by Rottweiler would remove the CFA without scrapping and without going into the silicone bed. That would be something!

By the way, the glass covering the sensor in the 1000D fits perfectly on top of the 350D sensor. If you have a dead 1000D, I should remind you that the cover sensor in this camera is very easy to remove intact and it can be used on a 350d (which cover glassseems to be near impossible to remove in one piece). I'm hoping the dichloroethane will remove the CFA in the 350D without scraping. Still haven't decided about the best way to apply it on the sensor.

Done it :) Glass off all pieces in one go with ultra sticky double sided foam pad. Nice pristine sensor all ready to be bebayered Rotten photo of the removed glass but it shows the result.

Where did you get that sticky foam pad, Gina?

I think I would be worried about high-power solvents and other chemicals too. I tried IPA but that didn't touch it. Cleans off heat conducting grease quite well though.

I have ordered a tiny hot air gun from Amazon - designed for craft use, but may be sufficient for heating the edge of the cover glass. Don't know it it will be powerful enough but have to see I could make use of it for other things though. http://www.amazon.co...ywords=heat gun

My full size DeWalt gun was way OTT

Let us know how you get on with removing that glass with your girlly hot air gun (I looked at it ). I'll be trying the 350D with a butane pen torch.

I also feel apprehensive about using dichloroethanebut that's what the people at JTW suggested it works so I would like to give it a try. I find surprising you can buy this staff online; particularly when it's been banned from use in USA due to its toxicity and carcinogenity.

Hi,

Man, those quemicals make me nervous...please be carefull buddy.

I just got another 350D from a friend who wants to do the mono conversion, he is ok in case I ruin the sensor, hope to get it working like my 350D

Will work on that next weekend

Also I will disassemble mine again, to make the nitrogen purge on the sensor, hope this will cure my foggy sensor when using the cooling (it is assembled now).

Cheers guys,

Luis, looking forward to seeing some results with colour images and H-alpha added to it with your mono 350D -that's the way I would like to use it; with a clip H-alpha filter. BTW, how did you manage to merge those two images from different cameras/sensors?

If you are interested, I can give you an anti-aliasing filter from a canon 1100D (this one, I know where I placed it). I think it's big enough to cover your sensor if you want some protection. The trouble is, the anti-aliasing will blur a bit the images but it'll also provide some protection for star bloating -is this a concern in monochrome sensors too? - I wonder.

Using that solvent makes me nervous too! I'll do it in the garden No ideal but safety is my first concern. we'll see how good it is with the CFA remnants on the 1000D sensor first.

I tried ethyl acetate long time ago on Sony webcam sensors, that stuff does not dissolve CFA, but make it very soft and easy to scrape off with just a gentle rubbing. But Canon sensors are completely different thing...

I would love to try different solvents, but they are hard to find in my country.

There is one more possible chemical that could remove CFA, and that is concentrated Nitric acid under elevated temperature. I have a bottle with concentration of 75% and I will try that on broken sensors. But that stuff is pure evil

I hope it will not eat everything

How did you apply the ethyl acetate on the sensor? I'm planning to use swabs with the solvent but I also thought of a small paintbrush?

No need to get freaked out. There are probably lots of things that you come into contact with that can be carcinogenic in the right circumstances and you may not even think twice about them. Use a bit of common sense and I'm sure you'll be fine.

James

Having a quick look at wikipedia, it seems that dioxolane or toluene are suggested as possible substitutes as solvents. Maybe someone here wants to have a go with those.

Great development on this tread guys and gals

I promised results from my debayered cooled 450D, but that will have to wait a little. I didn't have the time to swap sensors in my cooled camera, so I went to dark sky location with my colour chip one... Sorry

Pixueto, I tried to remove glass from Nikon D50 CCD sensor that I own. That's the same sensor as in QHY8 camera (Sony ICX453AQ).

In short, I found that to be mission impossible...

Sensor package is made of plastic, and glass cover is glued with some bad ass glue that doesn't react to heat at all. I think that only way to safely remove glass is to cut it out with Dremel and diamond cutting wheel. I tried to pry it out with scalpel blade but glass shattered.

Another problem is that distance from glass to silicon is only around 1mm, and bonding wires are half the thickness of Canon sensors. Nightmare

On the positive side, once you manage to remove glass, scraping the CFA is piece of cake

Thank you Filip. That's very interesting. The other thing that needs to be considered is the impossibility of getting 100% raw files from Nikon cameras. There is currently a working group doing reverse engineering trying to hack nikon cameras in a similar way to the Magic Lantern project. Maybe, obtaining real raw files from nikon cameras could be something they can achieve in the near future?

Well, the dichloroethane arrived today but I'm not going to touch it until I get the protective goggles and mask. The fact that it is a carcinogen agent is freaking me out a bit! Also, after seeing Luis' brilliant results with his debayered camera, I, as Gina, have ordered a cheap working 350D. I might have a go and see if it's really that different compared to the 1000D (btw, I haven't found my old bricked 350D yet Luis). The plan is to apply the dichloroethane and see if I can remove the CFA without any scrapping leaving the silicone bed intact.

I noticed that nobody has removed the cover glass intact in the 350D. Is it that difficult guys? Do you think applying heat as JTW suggested will work?

Thanks

Hi,

I meant the sensitivity of a debayered 350D vs the 1100D as the microlenses would be removed. but yes, the readout noise would be a major factor.

Does the generation of the processor make a difference at all? Digic 2, 3, 4 and so on. I'd expect speed to be a major improvement and even a lower noise floor.

I've got a spreadsheet here with some info I gathered on various parameters.

https://www.dropbox....on-sensors.xlsx

the readout noise of the 350D looks quite low at 3.7e- and a full well of 43k.

would be great to see a like for like comparison with Luis or my 350D and Gina's debayered 1100D on the same target.

I'll give that heat method a go on the glass that's remaining on my 600D sensor. i'll get a pencil torch as well. i'm guessing heating for just 2 or 3 seconds would do?

I believe Guylian, a member here has debayered a Nikon which is a CCD. Might give that a go. pity that Nikon's don't have the same astro software support like the Canons.

Cheers

Alistair

Alistair, I've used for astrophotography all these cameras: canon 350D, 1000D, 450D, 1100D and 500D. I can tell you that the 1100D performance for astrophotography is far superior to the rest. I have been really impressed by that camera; the next best one would be the 450D.

Thanks for all your help JTW. I've been thinking about all you've said and there is something I cannot get out of my head. Maybe you can shed some light on it. Do you think a DSLR camera with a CCD sensor such as the Nikon D80 could give better results with this mod? From your earlier posts I gather that CCD sensors will always be more efficient and the dichloroethanewill work better on those, right?

Thanks

Thank you again JTW. Sorry about asking you so many questions but not everyday one gets the chance to talk to someone who could shed light on all the problems I've been encountering with this mod that has now become a kind of personal obsession for me.

So, if I understood correctly, even though it won't work with the 1000D or the 450D, the dichloroethane can actually remove the bayer array in a 350D, right? Whithout any scraping involved, thus removing the posibility of leaving scraches on the silicone bed under the CFA?

And talking about scratches, there is something that puzzles me and I was hopping you could help me understand. After scrapping my 1000D sensor, I can see I've created a good few scratches. However, when I took some photos, there is no evidence that those scratches are there. I even took a flat frame at F36 and still couldn't see any of them. I run a few tests for dead pixels and the sensor seems to be fine. Now, surely those scratches must have an effect, right? How come they don't show up?

Many thanks again for your help.

Dichloroethane will not touch anything later than a 400D unfortunately. It seems to be much better at dissolving CCD bayers, on DSLRs it can take a while. It does not attack silicon though, so it will enable 100% safe removal assuming you dont gas yourself with it

James is correct with the epoxy, you need to dribble it on somehow, we use a pistol which is great for control but these arent cheap. You can chop the end off a cotton bud and allow it to drip on. Maybe draw some targets on a piece of paper and practice your aim? Touching the wires is definitely not recommended.

One point I probably didn't stress enough is how careful to be using the heat method to remove the window. It takes just a second to break the bond, the sensors are fine with this method so long as they don't have the ribbon cable type attachment such as the 5D MkII or 40D. If you rush this, you will probably break the window. It happened to us a few times, worst of it is, it leaves little bits of glass on your sensor, so more cleaning to do.

Thank you JTW. Can the Dichloroethane be applied on the bayer array leftovers on a 100D or 450D to make the scrapping removal process easier? Will it weaken at least the CFA array in a 1000D? I'm having a lot of trouble removing those CFA leftovers even under the microscope!

Many thanks

Thank you JTW. I Very much appreciate that.

When you mention older models, which cameras are you referring to? are 1000D, a 450D old models?

If I use Dichloroethane with a 1000D or 450D sensor will it remove the CFA without scraping? How do i stop it going beyond the bayer array?

Many, many thanks