RobertI

50 minutes ago, Anne S said:

Dew. It was coating anything not under cover.

Understood, thanks. 👍

38 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

The C8 on the CG5 plus binoculars. There's only so much kit you can use at once and the less you need to manage the better...

I've taken two scopes on a couple of occasions but always end up sticking with one. It's no great burden to share the eyepiece with a friend and can be fun.

Last year I was v. happy at Cwmdu with just the 102 f7 on the AVX on the one great clear night and on the second very patchy night, the 10x50s did the business from outside the tent.

Also four other people got to look through my telescope and I managed a good peep through three others.

This year it's the Stellamira 125ED and AVX plus binoculars.

 

That’s really helpful, good to hear about your personal experiences. The general message seems to be consider taking less rather than more. That’s also a good point about looking through other scopes, I do want to try and get some views through other scopes, especially some of this big dobs. I’m conscious of the fact that there’s a high probability I won’t get ANY clear skies, so I guess I shouldn’t go mad with equipment. 🙂

1 hour ago, Anne S said:

Dew can be a real problem if there's no wind. One year a lot of people had electrical problems as well as dewing ones. Everything was dripping! Kelling also tends to be windy as it's on the top of a hill. A large scope can be badly affected with it so bringing a smaller scope can be a good idea.

Anne

Were the electrical problems caused by the supply at Kelling or by the amount of dew?

47 minutes ago, Paz said:

I think the C8/102mm refractor/10x50 bins would be a lgood line up to take. I'd even consider leaving the 66 behind in order to have less gear to deal with as there's only a few things I'd choose to look at with 66mm if I've got 102mm available.

If its going to be long nights and dewing up is a risk then dew heaters are preferable but taking a backup scope to bring out if a first choice scope dews up is also an option.

Thanks Paz, some good ideas there. Yes I had considered dew and have dew bands, etc (even a little hairdryer!) but a ‘spare’ scope is an interesting one. If it was just me I wouldn't bother with the CG5 and electronics, but thinking that my friend might be more interested if there was some fun tech to use…

Wonderful image. Might get more attention if it was put in the imaging forum?

Not sure best place to post this, but here goes. I’m off to Kelling for four nights in October and taking a friend with me who is a compete beginner. Trying to work out the best kit to take. Now I think my site is partially obscured by trees so I may need to move around to get a full view of everything. But my thinking was to take the following (purely visual):

1. My C8 on a CG5 EQ mount  - this can be controlled by SakySafari on a tablet and I was thinking my novice friend might have fun using this, I could create a list of interesting objects for for him to explore under my supervision.
2. My Skytee 2 altaz manual mount with a 102ED F7 frac on one side and ZS66 on the other - this would be used mainly by me for tracking down more challenging stuff and bino-viewing Jupiter and Saturn.
3. 10x50 binoculars!

I also have a Heritage 130P which sits nicely on a SkyProdigy or manual altaz mount like my AZ4, but not sure this adds anything to the kit I am taking. And I also have a 150 F8 Newtonian which has produced great results but is a bit bulky to transport.

The best objects I think are going to be the open clusters in and around Cassiopeia, emission nebulae in and around Cygnus, scattered globulars and of course Jupiter and Saturn.

What do people think? Have I missed something obvious in the setup or some other considerations?

4 hours ago, bomberbaz said:

No campbell's H star rob? 

ignore me, I have seen it

 

I’ve just seen that there’s already an H-Beta SkySafari list in the Member’s observing list thread! Oh well….

I’m visual only, I’m taking a couple of scopes and tripods as I am taking a friend who is a novice, so he can have a go, and I’ll be happy to share views with anyone else. I will also be looking to get a look through some large dobs if possible. I’m kinda thinking it would be good to have a list of visual observers who are happy to let other SGL’ers have a squint.  I’m on pitches 431 and 442 in red field, very happy to chat (I don’t get out much!). 

If folk are interested I have created a Sky Safari observing list with Don’s Hb targets (except three I couldn’t find), hope it’s of use….

H Beta targets.skylist

3 hours ago, Louis D said:

If you have a long eye relief, low power eyepiece, try the blinking technique with the filter between your eye and the eyepiece.  This is how I've been comparing filters for false color reduction on achromats.  It's easier to see subtle differences between filters when you rapidly move them in and out of the exit pupil.  You can even try stacking filters this way to see if one is more dominant than another.  For instance, an HB or OIII should look the same with a UHC stacked ahead of it since the UHC should typically be passing both HB and OIII.

2 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

I've used the blinking technique on planetary nebulae that are so small they are little different than star images at low powers.

The nebula stays visible when almost all the stars disappear or get seriously darkened.

But for fainter objects, the difficult with this technique is that the filter is essentially a mirror and reflects back so much ambient light the objects become invisible.

Thanks for the thoughts Louis and Don. My filters live in a manual filter wheel at the moment, so I can flick between them quickly, although obviously I can’t stack! 

5 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

Rob, what brand of HB filter did you get and do you have a 40mm plossl? The 40mm should give you a stronger response.

Also I notice you have the heritage 130, now an interesting comparison there would be that shooting off against the 4" apo with the HB filter. 

It’s an Astronomik Hb, same as my other filters. Yes I do have 40mm Plossl which came with my C8 purchased 25 years ago - it’s still rolling around my eyepiece tray somewhere, never really used, so it will be good to find a use for it! I shall definitely give is a go, good suggestion, although I hope my pupil can expand large enough (5.7mm so should be ok I think). As for the Heritage 130, another good idea, I was thinking about that, it has worked really well with the OIII in the past so will give a go. 👍

I have never lost the wonder of looking at certain celestial objects. When you gaze into the heart of the fiery Orion Nebula and see the crucible of the Trapezium where stars are being born, and tendrils of illuminated gas spanning light years, it does give me a sense of our place in the Universe and a perspective on the mundane problems of life. Unfortunately these feelings rarely permeate my day to day stresses and anxieties, but I do feel a duty to spread the message and enlighten others when I can. 

8 hours ago, John said:

I did find observing Messier 42 interesting with the H-Beta filter. It seemed to enhance the contrast of some of the features surrounding the central region of the nebula although at the expense of the extension visible in the outer tendrils. In particular the "cliff" (image below) near the dark "fish's mouth" feature became noticeably more obvious:

 

Interesting John, I have switched between OIII, UHC and no filter on M42 and it is equally interesting to see the difference - switching in the Hb should be really interesting. The filter wheel is great for this, makes switching easy and the difference views immediately obvious. 

1 minute ago, The60mmKid said:

Here are a couple that I've owned and loved.

 

Love both of these, can you say more about the first scope? 

32 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

With John here in the main, the filter has limited use. I have the identical list to what Don posted but I have either struggled or not needed the Hb filer with them.

EDIT; The key to nearly all HB targets is very dark skies, moving on.

This is my opinion and not fact btw. Where no comment, I have not yet got around to trying with an HB. I used a 14" F5 dob and eyepiece giving a 5mm exit pupil:

1. IC 434 w/B33(HORSEHEAD NEBULA)   Absolutly needed
2. NGC 1499 (CALIFORNIA NEBULA, naked eye and RFT) UHC also works, not a huge difference between the 2
3. M43 (part of the Great Orion Nebula)  Need to try this again so no comment
4. IC 5146 (COCOON NEBULA in Cygnus) difficult, I wasn't sure if I saw.
5. M20 (TRIFID NEBULA, main section) 
6. NGC 2327 (diffuse nebula in Monoceros) 
7. IC 405 (the FLAMING STAR NEBULA in Auriga) UHC works fine for me
8. IC 417 (diffuse Nebula in Auriga) 
9. IC 1283 (diffuse Nebula in Sagittarius) 
10. IC 1318 GAMMA CYGNI NEBULA (diffuse nebula in Cygnus)
11. IC 2177: SEAGULL NEBULA (Diffuse Nebula, Monoceros) 
12. IC 5076 (diffuse nebula, Cygnus)
13. PK64+5.1 "CAMPBELL'S HYDROGEN STAR" Cygnus (PNG 64.7+5.0)  Superb with the HB, jumps right out at you. Very difficult without a filter. Not tried a UHC though, suspect it will do well on it.
14. Sh2-157a (small round nebula inside larger Sh2-157, Cassiopeia)
15. Sh2-235 (diffuse nebula in Auriga).
16. Sh2-276 "BARNARD'S LOOP" (diffuse nebula in Orion, naked eye)
17. IC 2162 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion)
18 Sh2-254 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
19. Sh2-256-7 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
20. vdB93 (Gum-1) (diffuse nebula in Monoceros near IC 2177)
21. Lambda Orionis nebular complex (very large, naked-eye)
22. Sh2-273 "Cone" Nebula portion south of cluster NGC 2264

The objects that respond are limited and the objects that only respond to HB are even more limited. 

You will get a better response using equipment which gives a large exit pupil at 5mm or close too that, these are very tight band pass filters and you need to let a lot of light hit your retina. I think a slow (F6 or slower) will struggle on nearly all of those objects but I would be interested to hear how you get on. 

Dispite all my perceived limitation of the HB filter, I won't get rid of it.

Steve

Interesting additional comments on these object Steve. I can only comment on the California neb so far using my 102ED and a 32mm Plossl giving an exit pupil of 4.6mm - the nebula was clearly visible but dim with the Hb, but when I tried with an OIII or UHC or no filter I couldn’t see it at all. I’ll definitely try some of these others as I am curious now, but I suspect I started with the best nebula of the bunch. 

51 minutes ago, John said:

I owned an H-Beta filter for a few years (an Astronomik) but with the exception of the Horsehead Nebula, I struggled to see much with it, despite the list that Don gives above and including use with my 12 inch dobsonian.

The Horsehead was very, very indistinct even with the 12 inches of aperture. I saw it on 3 occasions over a period of around 5 years - nights when I had the darkest and most transparent skies that I get here.

I don't own the filter now. I am glad that I owned one for a while though, if only because the Horsehead is such an iconic target.

Maybe I'm an "outlier" in this experience though 🤔

I’ll let you know how I get on John! I’m not really expecting to have much luck with the Horsehead tbh. 

1 hour ago, Don Pensack said:

Pure H-ß objects:

1. IC 434 w/B33(HORSEHEAD NEBULA)
2. NGC 1499 (CALIFORNIA NEBULA, naked eye and RFT)
3. M43 (part of the Great Orion Nebula)
4. IC 5146 (COCOON NEBULA in Cygnus)
5. M20 (TRIFID NEBULA, main section)
6. NGC 2327 (diffuse nebula in Monoceros)
7. IC 405 (the FLAMING STAR NEBULA in Auriga)
8. IC 417 (diffuse Nebula in Auriga)
9. IC 1283 (diffuse Nebula in Sagittarius)
10. IC 1318 GAMMA CYGNI NEBULA (diffuse nebula in Cygnus)
11. IC 2177: SEAGULL NEBULA (Diffuse Nebula, Monoceros)
12. IC 5076 (diffuse nebula, Cygnus)
13. PK64+5.1 "CAMPBELL'S HYDROGEN STAR" Cygnus (PNG 64.7+5.0)
14. Sh2-157a (small round nebula inside larger Sh2-157, Cassiopeia)
15. Sh2-235 (diffuse nebula in Auriga).
16. Sh2-276 "BARNARD'S LOOP" (diffuse nebula in Orion, naked eye)
17. IC 2162 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion)
18 Sh2-254 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
19. Sh2-256-7 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
20. vdB93 (Gum-1) (diffuse nebula in Monoceros near IC 2177)
21. Lambda Orionis nebular complex (very large, naked-eye)
22. Sh2-273 "Cone" Nebula portion south of cluster NGC 2264

Thanks Don, great list I’ll give some of these a go.

1 hour ago, Stu said:

With dark skies it should definitely be possible. Do you use an OIII filter? That helps too, even with small apertures.

@josefk I would second Stu’s comment, I would even say that an OIII can have an almost magical effect on the Veil and other objects as described in this observing report. Sorry to divert thread. 

Just an update to this rather old thread for posterity. I ended up purchasing a Hb filter but only recently got round to trying it out. Using my 4” apo and a 32mm plossl, I had a go at the California nebula in Perseus. I was not really expecting to see anything but was really surprised to pick it up straight away - it was large and dim, but immediate and unmistakeable. I also tried with a UHC, OIII and no filter, but the nebula was completely invisible. Back to the Hb and it popped into view again. It was worth the purchase just to see the California neb to be honest, as I’d never managed it before. Looking forward to trying the elusive Horsehead over the winter, possibly with the C8. There appear to be a few other more obscure “Hb friendly” nebulae which I’ll also have a go at some time.

Probably my widest field setup is my 60mm F3.75 finder with my 24mm 68 degree eyepiece, giving a whopping 7.5 degrees field of view! The aberrations are quite unpleasant though. I can use my 38mm Panaview with my 66mm refractor, giving a 7 degrees FOV, there is theoretical vignetting but not actually noticeable. But my everyday wide field setup is my 102ED and 38mm Panaview giving 3.9 degrees. Stupidly I sold my Megrez 72mm which was a brilliant wide field scope with a 2” focuser. I know this is a “show me” thread, so better show a picture I guess…..

3 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Do you find the moon still holds your attention after having examined it’s features over decades? having observed the moon so many countless times, I find that it tends to fall off my target list. If I am observing through a new scope which could reveal details another scope could not, then it becomes a new moon, a new challenge. Maybe I should learn how to sketch lunar details, this would add a whole new perspective on lunar details. Am I making any sense? as this could be said of any object, yet I never seem to loose interest in most other objects, I can marvel at the same planets and double stars over and over yet the moon with it’s wealth of features sometimes feel like more of the same. Maybe it is too easy a target, taken for granted.

Although I’ve been observing for a long time, the moon has just never excited me, and as a result I still know shockingly little about the lunar surface. When I discovered the bino-viewing experience, and the wow factor they give on moon and planets, I was hopeful that I would do more lunar, but it’s not yet happened. Recently I did enjoy discovering lunar domes and I’m sure there are plenty of other types of feature I need to discover, but I’ve not been tempted out again. Perhaps I just need a good lunar observing book to inspire me……..

Sorry to hear about your personal losses and injuries. Sounds like you’ve been having a tough time, hope things are improving for you. The garden and observing great. 

16 minutes ago, josefk said:

Nice report Rob and great targets. I always enjoy reading these because other than the brighter side of the Veil i have zero luck detecting them where i live. I think i need to make a well timed trip to darker skies in nearby North Norfolk. There's a nice piece about Williamina Fleming in Augusts Sky & Telescope re. Fleming's Triangular Wisp. Fleming discovered it examining glass plates in Pickerings massive spectroscopic survey programme. Pickering correctly gave her discovery credit but his name stuck to it. 

I did not know that about the discovery of Pickering’s wisp, interesting info, thank you. If you do ever end up at Kelling, let me know. 🙂

40 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

A very interesting read. I have a UHC filter and 32mm Baader Plossl and have wondered about adding OIII and / or Hb filters to my filter wheel for observing the larger nebulae. I've also been thinking about getting a 2" 30mm widefield eyepiece, but that would mean not using filters (I'm stuck with 1.25" too) so it would just be for wide star fields.

 

Thanks Peter, I would definitely invest in an OIII filter, it’s worth it for the Veil alone, but works like magic on so many other nebulae, including those tiny planetaries. On the Veil, the OIII will show more structure and detail than a UHC.

When I got my 2” Panaview, it was for the express purpose of fitting the whole veil complex into the entire FOV, so I also bought a 2” UHC, kinda wish I’d gone for a 2” OIII instead! I can see the whole complex with this setup - it’s fascinating but I wouldn’t say it’s worth the hassle of digging out the massive 2” eyepiece and rebalancing the scope! But I might need to experiment more with longer focal length 2” eyepieces and the larger exist pupils they provide. 

52 minutes ago, John said:

Great report Rob 🙂

Good narrowband and line filters really enhance the nebula viewing experience don't they ?

Discovering what an O-III can do, even in smaller scopes, was a revelation to me a few years back. I find from my back yard that eyepieces around 20mm are even better than those around 30mm for this. 

Totally agree John. I enjoy using filters so much I have a manual filter wheel semi-permanently attached between the diagonal and the eyepiece. It has an OIII, UHC, UHCE and now Hb attached. It’s fun to swap between them, although the UHCE rarely wins - it can act as a mild light pollution filter sometimes.