Nitecoda

I am new to astronomy and decided to start with Binoculars. A pair that seem well recommended are the Opticron 3030689 Adventurer T WP 10x50 which I picked up from Amazon for less than £90.

15 hours ago, glafnazur said:

Sounds like a very sensible way to approach to things. After learning the sky with the naked eye I used binoculars for many years before buying my first scope. There are tons of things to see in binoculars especially if you are viewing from a dark site. I subscribe to the Binocular Sky Newsletter https://binocularsky.com/ you may find it useful.

Thank you, I'm fortunate enough to have Steve as relative neighbour and have taken a good look through his site and posts, thank you.

On 14/11/2022 at 20:29, Carl Au said:

I take it you bought a scope, I notice FLO has one less Starfield these days for sale 

Actually, no, not yet. Now that I have learned more I have more detailed research I want to do but I have a very good idea of what I want, with thanks to everyone who has helped with this thread. 

I'm starting to know the things I didn't even know I didn't know!

The skies are incredible tonight and I'm getting lots of pleasure just looking at Pleiades and surfing the milky way with my 10x50 binoculars.

I really think there's value in taking my time in this decision and learning the sky along the way. 

I may even invest in a tripod for my binoculars and buy a better set of binoculars before I jump to a scope! I'm waiting for access to the classified ads so I can see if there are any deals to find from users here. 

I'm having so much fun in the slow way that I don't want to rush to the fast lane and miss out on the foundational learning. 

Thanks for the heads-up 👍

What software are you using to visualise this?

Thanks

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

A 102mm f7 refractor, mount, tripod and accessories are more awkward to carry than you might think... 

However for their size, they are amazing instruments under dark skies especially. More aperture allows one to go deeper but these 4" scopes show you enough to keep you busy for a long time.

If you want to shave several hundred quid off the cost but get going with a quality refractor:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/starfield-telescopes/starfield-102mm-f7-ed-doublet-refractor.html £899

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-az4-alt-az-mount.html

£198

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/SWdiagonal-20967.html £89

Zooms are like Marmite. I don't like them so..  BST Starguider 5,8,15 and 25mm eyepieces £220.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/astro-essentials-deluxe-red-dot-finder.html £49.

The lot will fit into this bag you can sling over your shoulder. Assuming you are relatively fit the weight (around 15kg) will be just about manageable for a short walk. Throw in some more padding for extra security: 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescope-bags-cases-storage/oklop-padded-bag-for-small-telescopes.html £55

If you envisage two people carrying the kit then pick up separate bags to share the load.

Everyone needs a starter book:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/turn-left-at-orion-book.html £23

 

£1533 inc. VAT.

Plus Brucie Bonus red light head torches - £18.99 for two.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vekkia-Flashlight-Headlight-Adjustable-Resistant/dp/B08YYBP86N

 

It's starting to come together, I'm now discovering, and deciding where I'd like to save and where I'd prefer not to compromise. Thanks @ScouseSpaceCadet  

57 minutes ago, Carl Au said:

I don’t know if this helps, but have owned a fpl 53 102 EDR for 3 years now, AA’s version of the KUO scope. I won’t be selling mine ever, quality build, quality optics so good you wonder where the catch is for only 900 quid, except there isn’t one. Less than 250 buys you the wonderful AZ4 mount, the Starfield is absolutely rock solid on one, I know because I used one for years with scopes this size. Another couple of hundred pounds get’s you the equally lovely Baader zoom. Again with the scope you are talking about I used nothing else for a couple of years, wonderful things. Add a WO diagonal and red dot Finder and you have lots of spare cash left. Everything is currently in stock at FLO

Cracking! The basket is looking a lot like this now - but I'm likley to go with a small selection of fixed eyepieces with a wide FOV.

10 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

I am another thumbs up for the Starfield. The CA on it is minuscule even at relatively high magnification. I also am a fan of Dobsonians but have to admit that they are not for taking on hikes. With you living in an international dark sky site, it’s bordering on criminal not to take full advantage of it with a large aperture dobsonian. Oh well, if you’re not to be swayed from a refractor then I’d go for the Starfield. 

Living where I do is a bonus, dark-sky-wise, but my back garden is also surrounded by trees and nearby housing. I live in a valley so I don't have unobstructed views across the horizon. I do however have relatively access to these dark skies and 200m hills that require a short drive and then a walk. 

I hope this quality of Frac won't be too much of a compromise over an 8" dob.

1 hour ago, Elp said:

I would say the apo is best visually with a Newtonian a very close second. 

I'd also swap your choice of diagonal and eyepiece as you can get better or just as good for cheaper. If you're set on a 2" diagonal I found the Altair dielectric very crisp, I bought it thinking it will be future proof for 2" eyepieces, but I've never bought one or felt the need to. Hence stick with a 1.25" and save money in the process with your eyepieces. The WO dielectric diagonal is also good. For plossls the bst starguider eyepieces are decent, the lower power televues (high power I find the glass too small), the ES range, vixen npl and celestron Xcel LX are also good. You can get a 30mm, 20mm and a 2x Barlow lens which will make your eyepieces 15mm and 10mm, it's all you need to start.

Oh and get a Rigel Quikfinder or a telrad, a red dot doesn't compare.

I think I'd be hard-pushed to move away from the 102 APO now.

I will look into the 1.25 Diagonals.

Rigel Quikfinder looks to be worthy of consideration.

Thank you

1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

The mount isn't suitable for back pack - so you'd have to go with something else.

The Baader diagonal is 2" and £235, but needs a 1.25" adaptor £70. Serious quality though. A luxury really; you can get good diagonals for a third of the price, especially if you only need a 1.25" fitting.

The Nirvanas are 1.25", very sharp, and only £79 to £89 each - you don't need all five though! Three would be enough. I started with 16, 10, 7, then added the 13 and 4 later. Zooms are fine but do you really need those in between magnifications?

The Baader finder is £35 + you'll need a shoe as the Starfield doesn't come fitted with any.

@Mr SpockI can swap out the EVM SZ and take advantage of teh Baader Zoom and Barlow combination offer - at £303 - which is only a smidgen over the price of 3 x fixed length eyepieces......

I'm not sure if I still need the Adaptor if I go for the Baader Clicklock 2" DiElectric Star Diagonal (???)

I like the idea of a 2" diagonal to give me the option for both 1.25" and 2" later.

I need to finalise the finder (I like the idea of red dot) and may also need a finder shoe if the telescope doesn't come with?

I might be arriving at a sub-£2k back garden option.....

1 minute ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I have a 102mm Skywatcher Startravel, and agree that the performance is not great.  But this is a f5 achromat, and if you think its performance is typical of what you would see with a f10 achromat, you are entirely missing the point.  A chart has been posted more than once on this forum showing the colour correction performance of achromatic telescopes according to focal ratio and aperture.   Large apertures with short focal ratio are dire, while small apertures and long focal ratio are very acceptable.   

I own a vintage 70mm achromat refractor with a very long focal ratio and the colour correction is entirely adequate, and the overall performance is superb.  On the other hand, it is rather long and heavy.  🙂

You clearly appreciate the quality of premium priced kit. But will your family appreciate the difference when looking through they eyepiece? I doubt it.

 

Thanks @Cosmic Geoff, I do have a lot to learn, I am aware somewhat of the impact of focal length and objective diameter combination. I was going for a shorter focal length for portability and felt that an f/7 was a happy enough medium, though an f/10 may be better for our initial target objects.  

I don't know if any of us will appreciate the difference but I'm quickly learning if it's likely, thanks to this forum and research.

I do appreciate the input from all of you on this.

Thank you 🙏

I really like some of these suggestions @Louis D.

I did not know that about FCD-100 but the scope I'm looking at isn't a double EPL-53 either, I think the second is Lanthanum.

I'd be happy enough with discoloration limited to super magnification.

I may push the field setup back to next spring/summer and instead for an EQ mount, similar to @Mr Spock solution.

The APM SZ may be over-kill and too much of a catch-all, I was trying to keep viewing simpler for kids (and me if I'm being lazy I suppose).

Point taken on RDF.

Thanks

7 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Remember, FCD-100 is basically the same as FPL-53, only from Hoya instead of Ohara, so consider scopes using it as well.

Consider an FPL-51/FCD-1 102mm.  These are generally referred to simply as ED scopes.  It will save you some money if your budget is fixed, and will show increased color fringing only at higher powers.  It still won't have anywhere near the level of unfocused colors as in an achromat.  Even an FPL-53/FCD-100 doublet will show some false color at higher powers.  No refractor will ever be 100% color free like a pure reflector as with a Newtonian.  The Canon Digisuper broadcast zoom lenses come mighty close, but at a $200,000 cost.

Consider getting a sturdier alt-az mount that doesn't require a counter weight.  Why lug dead weight up that 200m hill?  Put that same weight into a better mount.

A GSO dielectric diagonal will probably be just as good visually as that prism diagonal starting out, but at much less cost.

A range of magnifications from 46x to 93x with the APM SZ would be fine for most observing, but you'd still want something wider to maximize your true field of view for objects like the Pleiades and for centering objects.  For higher powers, you might want to invest in a good Barlow as well.

I'd save a few bucks and get either a basic RDF or a Rigel QuikFinder instead of the Baader SF RDF.

10 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

Here is my suggestion…..

This for grab and go…..

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/scopetech-telescopes/starbase-80-refractor-and-mount-package.html
 

And this for serious detail on the planets… but it’s a superb allrounder too.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/stellalyra-telescopes/stellalyra-8-f6-dobsonian.html

And well under your budget 👍

Now that is food for thought. My feeling (perhaps incorrectly) is that I should invest as much as I can into a single solution, rather than go half-cocked with two that don't quite make the cut..... (I accept that this may be an ill-informed and unreasonable response from a beginner)

Great options there though @dweller25  

@Mr Spock  The Starfield setup comes in around £1,800 *the 2" to 1" adaptor not included in this example.

I think the saving here is coming from a combined mount and stand in the EQ5, and moving away from the EPM Zoom to some fixed length eyepieces. Am I losing any noticeable benefits (other than cost) with 1.25" eyepieces vs 2"?

Maybe, for now, I build for the back garden and add a mobile tripod for field trips at a later date......

21 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

Will it limit lunar viewing.  No it wont.  I get excellent images of the moon with the 10 inch.  Plus you can throw crazy amounts of magnification at the moon and get great images.

There are plenty of ways to move a dob around easily.  A  hand truck makes them easy to move.  So a 20 minutes quickie session isnt an issue.

Yes dragging a dob up to a dark sky sight can be a pain.  As far as imagining sure you can do moon and planets but real AP isnt really going to happen.

As far as contrast goes, that depends on how much you spend on the frac.  A good dob with a good mirror will show a great deal.

Now here is some food for thought.  You are willing to spend 2300 bucks. As pointed out you can spend a lot less then that on one scope.  So maybe consider one of each.  One for home and one to grab and go hiking with. 

 

 

Thanks @Mike Q, great feedback. I don't think I'll get away with two 🤐

Thank you @Cosmic Geoff. I looked at the Moon, Mars (albeit close to the horizon), and Jupiter through a 102/500 Skywatcher StarTravel with various eyepieces at the latest gathering of my local club. I've also looked through a friends 76mm Takahashi. There was a lot less false colour through the Tak and it made the Skywatcher look almost fake and out of focus to me. I know I can't compare the equipment at the price points, and I'm not proposing a Tak. I'm trying to find that happy medium.

Ideally it won't be an expensive premium scope - I didn't think that was what I was aiming at with a £900 Frac. I'm happy to consider lower quality glass if it's not going to result in a lack of excitement when we use it for live viewing only.

Thanks 

9 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

I know you said you ha e looked through some scopes, did you look thru a 8 inch dob.  Its not heavy when you split it into its 2 major pieces, its easily transportable, will do everything you want to do and cost a whole lot less then 2 grand.  If you are spending 80% of your time at home then even a 10 inch comes into play.  I am not going to promote one over the other, but a dob wins in the aperture and bang for buck category everytime. 

I have looked at the Moon, Saturn and Jupiter through a 6", 8" and 10", and was impressed, but wondered if this would:

• limit my viewing to lunar and planetary
• prevent me having an impromptu 20min session
• be a pain dragging up 200m climbs to local dark sky sites 
• limit imaging options for the future
• Give the same degrees of contrast and detail in sub-optimal conditions 

...compared to a grab 'n' Go frac

21 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Here is my (similar) selection:

And a few of these

Doable for under £2k I believe and all from FLO 

 

This looks like a quality setup.

Bearing in my mind I have zero equipment to start with, i wonder where the savings are made specifically to get this in budget. Also, wonder how portable the tripod is for putting into a backpack and hiking uphill.

I know I looked at the Starfield option (because I think it's actually the exact same scope but branded otherwise) and thought it was the exact same price - but looking again, I think the price on FLO includes VAT, but not at Astrograph - that would make a 20% difference....

10mm and 16mm eyepieces are recommends then? Are they 2"? And a Baader diagonal by the looks of it - I'd go clicklock for ease. 

Hi fellow SGers 👋

I'm pretty new here but have enjoyed devouring the forum over the past couple of weeks.

I tried to resist buying a scope too early 🙄. I've made my way through a large share of a couple of decent books 🤓, I've been to a star party 🥳, I've played with my binoculars , and now, I can't wait any longer, I'm jumping in 😈.

I will share this hobby with my wife and children (11 & 13). Initially our interest lies in the moon and planets because, as complete beginners, I think there's a lot more awe and amazement to be had seeing our celestial neighbours in greater detail - an instant gratification thing. I think it'll also avoid the disappointment of real-time viewing of nebulae and galaxies as faint, fuzzy, white blurs, compared to the wonders of the universe we see with Brian Cox. Though we would like a scope that would be flexible enough for us to start to explore the milky way and some brighter DSOs with a reasonably wide field of view. We're only interested in viewing at present.     

I live in an international dark sky reserve in Dorset so we'll spend 80% of our time observing from home, though we have far better sites at elevation within a 20min drive that we want to enjoy regularly. For this reason, the setup should be reasonably light and portable. 

The range of 102 F7 FPL-53 Refractors have caught my eye, and I might be landing on the Tecnosky from Astrograph.

This is what I'm considering, (prices EXCLUDE VAT):

• Tecnosky 102/700 F7 FPL-53 EDO APO Doublet £874
• Berlebach Spica Alt-Az Mount (£158) with 200mm shaft and a 3kg counter weight (£74)
• Ibis Obelisk Carbon Tripod with Ball Head (£265)
• APM 2" Prism Diagonal (£180)
• APM Super Zoom 7.7mm-15.4mm Constant 67° AFOV (£324)
• Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer V Red Dot Finder (£91)

Total price (including VAT) £2,360

I hadn't realised at first that the prices I was looking at were net of tax and this is more than I would want to spend. I'd like to get in below a target of £2,000 but I don't know where to make savings.

Questions

• Is this a good scope for my goals? What else must I consider outside of this 'family' of 102ED. (Note, I would like to keep CA to a minimum so prefer EPL-53 option)
• If only viewing, and not imaging (at present), is my snobbery for EPL-53 justified?
• If I need to find a 20% saving where do I look?  Should I go for a 3" scope?
• I chose the APM super zoom for ease of use, and this model over the Baader Zoom because of the fixed FOV at 67deg across the magnification range. Is this the wrong way to approach eyepieces?
• Should I go for individual fixed length eyepieces over the zoom? If so, which would provide the range I would need for my goals?
• Should I go for 1.25" eye-pieces in favour of 2"? To save cost and weight? What would be better?

Please, somebody help me spend £2k as sensibly as we can. I know there'll be many varied opinions but it's really the nuts and bolts I'm seeking advice for, right now, I don't want to be swayed away from a Refractor (unless it's an absolute no-brainer 🤪).

I still have a great deal to learn and thank you in advance for your help.

Thanks in advance, Mark 🙏

Moon, Mars,  Jupiter, Saturn,  Clusters and Nebulae, and Autumn constellations. 

I've just found a local event taking place tonight at The Astronomy Centre, Durlston Country Park, on the Dorset coast. The centre consists of its own observatory dome and learning centre. Entry is £3 and this will be my first time looking at the night sky with any device other than my naked eye. 

Weather permitting, tonight will offer the chance to see the Moon, Mars,  Jupiter, Saturn,  Clusters and Nebulae, and Autumn constellations.

Are there any other Dorset folk here, perhaps even Wessex Astronomical Society or Weymouth Astronomy Club members?

Link to site: https://wessex-astro.org.uk/durlston-events/

12 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

One of the most used star maps:

https://shopatsky.com/products/pocket-sky-atlas-second-edition

Best paired with a planetarium smartphone app, e.g. SkySafari 6 Plus, or Stellarium. Allows you to display a  field of view, that matches exactly the view with your binoculars or telescope.

Stephan

 

I now have stellarium, thank you. 

1 hour ago, wulfrun said:

Have a look on this site (the author is also a member on this site), good recommendations on what to buy or avoid:

http://binocularsky.com/

If you're going to hand-hold and want best portability, probably wisest to go 8x42 or 10x50 at most and even those benefit from support. Look on the site above also for methods to maximise stability when hand-holding. Most folk get it wrong (that included me) and it makes a noticeable difference when you use the right technique. He also has excellent reviews on various models.

Thank you, I shall take a look here at reviews. I had visited, including the sister site, but hadn't looked at the product reviews. Thank you.

Great news starhiker! I'm pleased to hear of your progress.

I plan on just laying back in a camping chair, wrapped in a storm jacket and blanket, lazily gazing at the heavens. 

I figure all I'll need is some binoculars, a star map, and maybe a red lens torch. 

I can hit one if the highest points in Dorset in about 10mins, so a portable setup such as this would be a great way to start. 

This is my second post here. My first explained how how intend to enter this hobby slowly, by reading and simply observing and learning the night sky.

I usually rush into things too quickly so I'm curtailing my nature and I'm already pleased to have made this decision. By browsing this forum I'm already gaining interest in things I never thought would appeal. 

Now, for those who would like to help me spend a little money.....  

I'd like to buy an entry level pair of binoculars so I can get a little closer to clusters, perhaps even make an attempt at the Orion Nebula - I'm not expecting much but I do live under reasonably dark skies and the milky way is obvious with the naked eye, it would be good to explore a little closer.

I'm after a fairly wide field of view because I want to jump around constellations and obvious waypoints as I learn. It seems a set of 7x50 or 10x50 would fit the bill. I have a budget of up to say £150. 

Do you have any recommendations for where I should start please? 

Thanks to all for some very kind and helpful replies. I shall research other books but will ensure I make good progress with the two I have first as I don't want to jump around without focus and end up not learning anything solid.

It's also a really good recommendation to journal my progress.

Thanks to all.

2 hours ago, Alan White said:

Welcome to SGL and by the looks of things the start of your journey into this fine hobby.
Your book choice is good as is the going to your local astro society, perhaps soem from SGL are members?

Thanks Alan.

I do wonder if any SGL members will be there, and whether there's any actual stargazing going on.

So far, in my short time jumping around these forums, I haven't anybody else from my county...