John

Trouble is, I've no idea how big a hand grenade is, never having seen one - it could be just a couple of cm long.

Can't we just stick to the traditional tin of baked beans for scale ? 

I'll be interested to hear about the TV Wide Fields from the folks who have got them. The 15mm, 19mm and 24mm TV WF's were my first foray into wide field eyepieces and worked very nicely at F/10 like most eyepiece do. The don't compete with Panoptics in faster scopes though. About the same as Hyperions perhaps ?

And John, surely not a 'spectre' 'creeping in' ...?

I've been just as guilty on this having had low glass sets, ultra-wide sets and currently a set just for one scope - my 6" F/12 refractor

Nice eyepiece Shane 

I used to have the 1.25" Wide Fields in 15mm, 19mm and 24mm but I've not tried one of the 2" ones.

Alan,

i can confirm that the "coffee" warm tone of TV plossls will work nicely on Jupiter and will tweak out a bit more extra detail in comparison to other similar kind plossls,but that is as far as it goes.There will be no advantage of that coloring on any other object,but no disadvantage either.Like marmite,you either love it or hate it

If you are trying to build a collection of TV plossls,try sourcing the smoothside  version Circle NJ ones.they are the best ones of the bunch.Not that they come up for sale that often.Last full set of them sold for 1000 USD,but that one had all of them there and was in superb shape for they age.Single Eps pop up time to time and get snatched up practically immediately, and a  few focal length are quite rare to come by.Newer versions are great too and are more easier to come by for possibly a bit less pennies.

We do see things a little differently I reckon "Dude" 

I used to have a set of the NJ "smoothside" TV Plossls (except the 55mm) and a set of the newer shaped ones, with the rubber eye cups (again less the 55mm). They were both very good ranges but I felt the newer ones had greater light transmission and slightly less light scatter.  

Still, lets see what Alan makes of them ! 

Derek,

I have that one on my to get list, the 11mm and maybe the 8mm. I read an interesting report by someone on SGL about the TV Plossl and thought I must see this myself, reported the colours come across better on Planets like Jupiter. I will have to wait a while as it is not best placed now.

Alan.

I've found TV plossls very good all round eyepieces with high transmission levels. I've read that their "tone" particularly suits some objects such as Jupiter although I've never been particularly aware of this "tone" personally. They do seem to be slightly "warmer" than some eyepieces such as Baader GO's and Pentax XW's so that must be it.

Of course it raises the spectre of the really keen eyepiece collector having not only a wide set and a low glass, narrower set but also a Jupiter set, Mars set, Saturn set, Lunar set etc, etc. I see that solar sets are creeping in as well - where will it all end ?  

Back in the 1980's Vixen made equipment for Celestron and a few other companies including Orion (USA), Tele Vue and, believe it or not, some Tasco scopes were made by Vixen too.

I've owned a few of the Vixen "silver tops" and some were branded Celestron. They were pretty decent plossls I seem to recall but I tend to prefer eyepieces with eye cups to help position the eye and keep stray light out.

Vixen also made eyepieces marked as orthos in both the flat topped and volcano topped designs but they were in fact a symmetrical design rather similar to the plossl (I took a couple apart to clean once !). I've owned a Vixen made but Celestron branded 32mm Erfle a a few years back. Vixen used to put a (v) mark on stuff that they made even if the rest of the branding was another companies name.  

The Vixen "silver tops" do have a sort of simple elegance to their design though. I think my favourite was the 30mm  

Vixen SLV Eyepieces: 20mm, 12mm and 6mm

Firstly I ought to apologise for the fact that i) this report has been some time coming and ii) that it’s not as long and thorough as some of the excellent reviews that have been posted by others recently. Nevertheless I hope it’s of some interest for anybody interested in these new Vixen eyepieces. I also hope I've got the history of these eyepieces correct - please let me know if you spot any bloopers and I'll gladly amend the piece 

Around about 1994 Vixen introduced a range of eyepieces that were a notable departure from the more normal orthoscopic, plossl and erfle designs in that they contained as many as 7 lenses, had a consistent and comfortable 20mm of eye relief and used exotic Lanthanum glass for some of the lenses. That range was called the Vixen Lanthanum LV and they rapidly became very popular despite their relatively high price tag and the fact that they resisted pursuing the wide and ultra wide apparent fields of view that Tele Vue and Meade had embraced with such enthusiasm with the Vixen LV’s sporting a modest 45 degree apparent field of view.

The original Vixen LV range went all the way from 2.5mm to 40mm in the 1.25” fitting and also included a 2” format 30mm with a 60 degree field of view and finally a 50mm eyepiece. There was also an 8mm – 24mm zoom which was sufficiently good for Tele Vue to ask Vixen to re-brand a version for them. The Vixen LV’s received, and still receive very positive reviews and seemed to be owned and used by some pretty discerning amateur astronomers. They also proved very popular with those who wear glasses when observing as the high quality but moderate field of view was easily accessible to them due to the generous eye relief.

Fast forward to late 2007 and Vixen produced the first re-vamp of this successful range in the shape of the Vixen NLV range which clad a similar (though not identical) optical design in a more modern looking body which incorporated a two position, twist and click, eyepiece top section and integrated eyecup to make finding the correct eye position more consistently easier. The NLV range covered a similar range of focal lengths to the LV range although the 30mm in the 2” format was dropped and the 50mm 2” had a body shape all of it’s own. The 1.25” NLV’s from 9mm and 25mm inclusive had gained 5 degrees of apparent field of view as well.

It could be said that the NLV range was a careful and thoughtful evolution from the LV range, rather than a major step change, and I feel that the new Vixen SLV range, introduced in late 2013, introduces a similar further set of subtle improvements to an already excellent product. A further change is that the SLV’s are manufactured for Vixen in China rather than in Japan.

In an earlier post here: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/211409-vixen-slvs-photos/ I described the physical attributes of the three Vixen SLV eyepieces that First Light Optics have been kind enough to lend me to try out, the 20mm, 12mm and 6mm focal length units. Since I’ve been using the eyepieces I’ve noticed that the twist up eyecup of the 6mm is a little looser in feel than that of the 12mm and 20mm.

I’ve had a number of sessions with these eyepieces over the past couple of months, in combination with my 12” F/5.3 dobsonian scope and my 4” and 4.7” ED refractors. Initially during this period the Moon was a factor in the sky so I was limited to planetary, lunar and binary star observations but on later occasions I was able to view some of the better known galaxies, nebulae and star clusters.

I usually wait until I have had a few sessions with an item before posting any performance reports on it however I was so impressed with the view through the SLV 6mm when I had first light with it that I broke this rule and posted a short exclamation on the forum: 

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/209170-vixen-slvs-now-available/?p=2253493

The 6mm seems to match the performance of the Baader Genuine Orthoscopic 6mm very closely and is perhaps a touch better on Mars and Jupiter than my Ethos 6mm showing just a little less light scatter and the contrast of the surface features is just a little more clearly defined. The subtle colour tints stand out as well as I have seen in any eyepiece.  

One of the toughest tests I know of for a high power eyepiece is to try and see Sirius B, the faint and challenging companion to the brightest star in the sky. My 12” dobsonian will show the “B” star but only under steady viewing conditions and when an eyepiece with excellent sharpness and control of light scatter is used. The 6mm Vixen SLV proved as good as the Baader Genuine Ortho at this task which is high praise because the 6mm BGO was, up to now, the best eyepiece I’d found for this.

The only issue I've come across with the 6mm is some very slight pin cushion distortion right at the edge of the field of view. The effect of this is that Mars and Jupiter just start to elongate a little in the last few seconds as they drift towards the field stop edge, before disappearing behind it. This is a minor issue I feel though and it was a few sessions before I noticed it and only then when I was deliberately looking to see how the eyepiece performed right across it’s field of view.

Having seen this in the 6mm I looked carefully at the edge of field performance of the the 12mm and 20mm SLV’s but they don't show this effect.

This performance was consistent in all the scopes I tried the eyepieces in and the colour tint of the Vixen SLV’s seems very neutral, reminiscent of the Pentax XW’s which are another favourite eyepiece of mine.

With my scopes, the 12mm Vixen SLV is a medium power eyepiece giving between 55x in my 4” refractor and 133x with my 12” dobsonian. I found it an excellent eyepiece for viewing planetary nebulae, globular clusters and galaxies. It showed the supernova SN214J that was in the galaxy Messier 82 earlier this year very well indeed and, in the 12” scope, impressive structure and contrast variation in the galaxy too.

The challenging E & F stars in the Trapezium in Messier 42, the Orion Nebula were clearly picked out even with my 4.7” refractor at 75x with the great nebula itself spreading it’s bat-like wings around the cluster.

The 20mm SLV mirrored the optical quality that the 6mm and 12mm displayed including maintaining sharply defined stars across the whole field, even in my F/5.3 dobsonian.

Overall I’d say that the views given by the SLV’s are of similar quality to either a Pentax XW with 20 degrees less apparent field of view or a quality orthoscopic such as the Baader GO or Astro Hutech but with 8 degrees more field and a lot more eye relief, depending on which way you want to come at it.

In the 3 focal lengths that I had on loan the SLV eyepieces are nearly but not quite par focal so a small adjustment to focus is needed as you swap between them. Just a quarter turn or so of the focuser knob though, so nothing drastic.

I feel the Vixen SLV’s are excellent eyepieces for the observer that does not wish for wider fields of view and who is prepared to pay a little more for a 50 degree eyepiece which delivers top quality performance and comfortable viewing in a relatively compact but well made package. They should prove comfortable for those who wear glasses when observing too.

I've included below some more photos of the 3 eyepieces I've had on loan with a Baader Genuine Orthoscopic 6mm for scale.

Many thanks to First Light Optics for the loan of the 3 Vixen SLV eyepieces   

Had one of those for many years, been going to sell it as I have 21mm Ethos that gives similar views but have grown rather attached to it 

Dave

Depsite having the Ethos 21 I can't let the Nagler 31 go either. I don't use it a great deal but there are some things that it does better than anything else, e.g: showing the whole of the Veil Nebula when used with my ED102 Vixen refractor. 

...I am beginning to wonder why I didn't listern to John in the first place, he told me they were this good about 18 months ago....

And I should have listened to Steve from FLO and Rik several years back when they were singing the praises of the XW's before the Ethos and Delos were a black and green glint in their designers eye !

at 470 euro a piece and 30 deg FOV you have to be very hard core planetary observer  to have them in your arsenal.I would take Delos,Ethos or Pentax or any other ortho over them any day.Saying that,if money was no object,i would love to have them in my Ep box.

i would be also interested to see observers views or reviews on lower mag Delos vs Pentax,lets say in 10 or 12-14mm range for DSO.

I've owned a TMB Supermoncentric 5mm and at the same time the Pentax XW and Baader GO 5 mm's. Under the best conditions the Supermono showed slightly better contrast and sharpness on the planets. It's only a "slightly" though and the conditions need to be towards the upper end of good to appreciate it. For me the narrow FoV, tiny eye lens and tight eye relief of the Supermono were not worth the slight optical advantage so I let it go.

Back on the topic of the Pentax XW's, I've seen the the views through them described a number of times as orthoscopic-like and have used the term myself to describe the views through my 5mm and 3.5mm XW's. I'm sure the Delos matches that too. FWIW I feel the Ethos gets pretty close to that as well which figures as the Delos was derived from the Ethos design.

I have read it Alan and I did enjoy it 

Thanks for going to the effort of posting this quality of report on the forum.

The focuser travel on my refractors ranges between 125mm and 200mm and, like Joves, I use eyepieces from 3mm to 31mm and they all come to focus without the need for extension tubes.

So, to answer your original question - no, most refactors are not like that.

Thanks gordon. That again is really useful.

My mate has sent me pictures of his rings and i think it looks like there are flat bits:

Dark images sorry.

Jd

Those flat bits are the radius blocks. They are separate items from the rings. 

yup... although I use skywatcher rings on my GX250. I lined the rings with strips of vinyl sticky backed floor tiles and it works a treat

Probably a good idea. The Orion Optics tube rings and standard dovetail are not their finest works 

If you want to use the Losmandy bar which is more secure, Laurie61 shows the way it works. With the Skywatcher / Vixen bar that Orion Optics supply the radius blocks are moulded into the bar itself as I recall.

If it's the F/4.8 version then it should be OK on an HEQ5 for visual observing. You will need an Orion Optics dovetail bar which is radiussed to bolt onto their tube rings. If ordering the scope from Orion Optics you need to specify that you need a dovetail bar supplied because they don't provide them as standard.

Skywatcher bars and rings won't work because OO tubes are smaller in diameter.

I've been pretty good lately although a Nagler 3-6 zoom has come and gone, a Hyperion zoom has arrived and a 2X Powermate is back in the eyepiece case again. I've got no excuse really as I still have a box of great eyepieces on loan from First Light Optics to play with as well

+1 Should be pinned.

I agree. It's a superb guide to Mars and observing it 

Many thanks for compiling and posting this 

Some nice stuff in there Derek

That 35mm Scopos is a big beastie isn't it 

Thats a great set 

I don't actually own any ortho eyepieces at the moment though I've a bunch on long term loan from FLO. I'll have to decide whether to pick up a few of my own when the others go back. I have a feeling I'll miss them when they are gone

Just been spliting my favorite dogs up with the same zoom in my APO, it was very easy tonight, for a change.

alan.

I'll have a bash with the Nagler zoom if the perishing clouds allow. It was clear with some clouds but it's now clouds with some clear bits.

So far I'd say it matches the Radians but is not quite as good as the XW's or the BGO / Astro Hutech/ Fuijiyama orthos. But good enough to make it an entirely viable "only" high power eyepiece quite possibly. As usual the differences here are small   

Never thought of a zoom for that purpose but I can imagine that would be fun

The great thing about it is that you can find just what magnification the conditions will allow really quickly and easily. The zoom has click stops at each mm but you can also position it anywhere in between too. 

John,

That is not your third 3-6mm Nagler zoom I see there . is it?

Nice kit in any case

Alan

Yes Alan. It's been quite a while since I owned one so I thought I'd like to have another go 

I've used orthos a lot since my last Nagler zoom so it seems "roomier" than I remember but it's early days yet. Zooming in to binary stars and watching them spring apart does put a grin on your face 

I thought that too. its ma hoosive.

They are huge - I have the 32mm (2"), 13mm and 5mm (1.25" with 2" skirt) in that range for testing at the moment and the latter two are much larger and heavier than the 32mm. All weigh well over 1lb apiece.

I've not posted a pic of my eyepiece cases lately so here is the current situation: