Autostart 494 HELP!!!

[njasmin]

Hello all, I am brand new to this forum, I have read a great deal and most of the information came from this site. I have a problem that may require some expertise as I am relatively new to computerized controllers. I cannot setup the alignment on the Meade Autostar 494 for the life of me. I picked up a Meade DS-114AT scope on craiglist for dirt cheap. Seemed like a good deal compared to my current "fine tune knob" scope. Anyways....

The problem I am encountering is that the alignment does not even come close to the target star! Also, i tried the 2-star alignment, i end up having to adjust the speed to accommodate the gap and it comes up with "alignment failed" The mount i have is an AZ/ALT mount, it is overshooting azimuth and undershooting altitude. I have tried many configurations, manually set location and timezone, accurate time, trained drives, testes motors and everything checked out fine. I modified the AZ/ALT percentage with no result. upon reading a forum I went in and modified the ratio and it gave me a huge degree of difference that was not desirable. I changed it back to default setting. 

I don't really care for the autostar as far as navigation is concerned as I can identify and point a scope to what i desire to look at manually. Just want to utilize the motors for a stable photograph.

What I am trying to accomplish is the Auto-tracking feature of the motorized mount. I read through the manual and it indicated that this alignment must take place in order for it to work....I tried it several times and i believe the manual to be true. once my object was located i cannot get it to stay in focus, it seems like it is almost on reverse, i hear the motors going but it cannot stay in view. I have searched far and wide for a solution with nothing to offer as far as what could be done with the information provided. 

I hear that the autostar 497 is compatible with this scope but if the controller is basing everything on date/time/location than would it yield different results? I do not mind picking one up. I believe the solution may lie in the az/alt ratio configuration but I am in desperate need of some guidance and any advise is greatly appreciated. I'm sorry if this is long winded and sounds like a noob problem. 

Thanks for reading!

[Steve Ward]

Welcome to the forum ...

Unfortunately I have no answer to your technical woes , but I would just like to warn you that with it being an ALT/AZ  your new mount is not going to be suitable for "stable photographs" as you are hoping for ...  

For this task you really do need an Equatorial mount .

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news ...   

[ronin]

The Meades are fairly simple, the obvious is the data.

What you should have is:

Scope = DS-114AT.  I have the ETX and the 494 does not list the DS-114AT, however the handset is several years old and predates the DS-114AT.

Mount = Alt/Az - check this one, I had one that reverted to EQ, caused panic.

Location = define a custom location, whatever name you want (3 characters), try OLO

Latitude = 28^o 33' N

Longitude = -81^o 18 W

Longitude may be -ve  or  81^o 18' W, I think it is just 81^o 18 W

Timezone is I think -5 for Orlando

With this data in power the thing off, otherwise it asks for date and time which at this stage are irrelevant.

Power it back on ans set the Speed = quite low, second or third one up.

Make sure the clutches are firm.

Get a bubble level and level the mount by the tripod legs - there will be a flat base where the arm merges in. There are things called Alignmates in the UK but not sure about the US, a retailer that sells Meades may have the same under some name or another. They are the same diameter as an eyepiece so fit in the same place for the OTA levelling.

Level the scope, use the handset.

Aim the scope at Polaris = True North, again use the handset.

Do these 3 as well as possible as the alignment is somewhat dependant on these being good.

Select the Autoalign.

Give the Date - not sure if US or UK format, have the recollection it wants month as Oct or Nov not a numerical value.

Give it the time.

Tell it if DST is On or Off.

Tell it to align.

That should be all.

Will say that often it is simply easier to Reset the handset and start again and enter everything.

[njasmin]

Welcome to the forum ...

Unfortunately I have no answer to your technical woes , but I would just like to warn you that with it being an ALT/AZ  your new mount is not going to be suitable for "stable photographs" as you are hoping for ...

For this task you really do need an Equatorial mount .

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news ...   

 I was afraid of that, I have had my fair share of dealing with EQ and AZ mounts...I told myself i would not buy another AZ mount but it was an impulse buy. I figured with the computer system it wouldn't make too much of a difference, the motors are pretty smooth if i can get it to work lol I only paid $15 for the entire setup so no regrets here I will just have to work with what i have for now. 

The Meades are fairly simple, the obvious is the data.

What you should have is:

Scope = DS-114AT.  I have the ETX and the 494 does not list the DS-114AT, however the handset is several years old and predates the DS-114AT.

Mount = Alt/Az - check this one, I had one that reverted to EQ, caused panic.

Location = define a custom location, whatever name you want (3 characters), try OLO

Latitude = 28^o 33' N

Longitude = -81^o 18 W

Longitude may be -ve  or  81^o 18' W, I think it is just 81^o 18 W

Timezone is I think -5 for Orlando

With this data in power the thing off, otherwise it asks for date and time which at this stage are irrelevant.

Power it back on ans set the Speed = quite low, second or third one up.

Make sure the clutches are firm.

Get a bubble level and level the mount by the tripod legs - there will be a flat base where the arm merges in. There are things called Alignmates in the UK but not sure about the US, a retailer that sells Meades may have the same under some name or another. They are the same diameter as an eyepiece so fit in the same place for the OTA levelling.

Level the scope, use the handset.

Aim the scope at Polaris = True North, again use the handset.

Do these 3 as well as possible as the alignment is somewhat dependant on these being good.

Select the Autoalign.

Give the Date - not sure if US or UK format, have the recollection it wants month as Oct or Nov not a numerical value.

Give it the time.

Tell it if DST is On or Off.

Tell it to align.

That should be all.

Will say that often it is simply easier to Reset the handset and start again and enter everything.

Ronin, I really appreciate your response. A lot of this has already been done on my part. When you say Point the scope at Polaris do you mean center it in the eyepiece and then level the scope? Because I have just been "eyeing" it at polaris once leveled. Also, last night when i set up the scope i used a level on the base on 2 different points (Level facing N-S and E-W) and the DS114AT is an option in the autostar menu for me so it is selected.

I have put in a custom location according to NASA website by zip code, LAT: 28.24 LONG: -81.28 and it is -5 for eastern standard time. Believe me, I have lost a lot of sleep over this not necessarily a bad thing though. I'm going to factory reset it and try again tonight. Just wondering if you know: The Setup menu for the Alt/Az Ratio is supposed to be specific to the gear drives on the scope model right? 

I will eventually get this figured out but great reward does not come without a little effort put forth. I do appreciate all the responses.

[ronin]

Not "AT" Polaris specifically as in Polaris in the centre of the eyepiece view, just horizontal due North.

The term is "Level and North". Everything is Level and everything is pointing North.

It is the accuracy of this setting that determines the errors that the scope has to account for, so the better that is the easier the scope manages.

Yes, the menu/scope you select is set up specific to the gear ratios, they are in the menu somewhere but leave them alone. You could change them by accident then not know what they were so unable to reset. Knowing them is a trick to using the 497 Autostar on the mount as you pick a scope on the 497 (say ETX 90) then alter the gear ratios to the one you have and APPARENTLY it is happy.

I have the 70 and the 105 so could do it to get the 497 features on the 70. However not a lot to gain really and less buttons means less chance of me pressing the wrong one.

Use new batteries if you are using batteries. We have Pound Shops here and they conveniently sell packs of 6 high power batteries for £1 (what else) so I tend to grab 2 packs whenever I use the scope. The ETX-70 is 9v. Yours is actually 12v I have just read.

I assume that Florida has DST at present, so that is Yes when asked. Otherwise that is a 1 hour time difference and so 15 degrees incorrect.

Cannot think of anything else. Cannot power up mine as it is wrapped and in the car at present.

Just check that the location is correct for Longitude, I suppose that it should be 081^o 18' W, basically check the number of leading 0's although I have never experienced a problem with this.

As mentioned previously you could find that a reset is simpler, then resupply all data. When something goes or is wrong it can be a pain trying to identify it.

[michael8554]

To be really picky...

Point it at the true pole - google for "Kochab's Clock" to learn how far to offset from Polaris.

Then switch on and when you get to Align it should ask you to centre on Polaris using the handset keys.

I think LAT: 28.24 LONG: -81.28 is in the wrong format (decimal), if so use Ronin's figures ( DD, MM)

Good luck

Michael

[njasmin]

First and foremost I would like to say, thank you to everyone for the responses! I am astounded by how active this community is and all advise has been very helpful and greatly appreciated!

Not "AT" Polaris specifically as in Polaris in the centre of the eyepiece view, just horizontal due North.

The term is "Level and North". Everything is Level and everything is pointing North.

It is the accuracy of this setting that determines the errors that the scope has to account for, so the better that is the easier the scope manages.

Yes, the menu/scope you select is set up specific to the gear ratios, they are in the menu somewhere but leave them alone. You could change them by accident then not know what they were so unable to reset. Knowing them is a trick to using the 497 Autostar on the mount as you pick a scope on the 497 (say ETX 90) then alter the gear ratios to the one you have and APPARENTLY it is happy.

I have the 70 and the 105 so could do it to get the 497 features on the 70. However not a lot to gain really and less buttons means less chance of me pressing the wrong one.

Use new batteries if you are using batteries. We have Pound Shops here and they conveniently sell packs of 6 high power batteries for £1 (what else) so I tend to grab 2 packs whenever I use the scope. The ETX-70 is 9v. Yours is actually 12v I have just read.

I assume that Florida has DST at present, so that is Yes when asked. Otherwise that is a 1 hour time difference and so 15 degrees incorrect.

Cannot think of anything else. Cannot power up mine as it is wrapped and in the car at present.

Just check that the location is correct for Longitude, I suppose that it should be 081^o 18' W, basically check the number of leading 0's although I have never experienced a problem with this.

As mentioned previously you could find that a reset is simpler, then resupply all data. When something goes or is wrong it can be a pain trying to identify it.

There were definitely some aspects of user error involved here. I use batteries and they are brand new...I actually just got the Proc. Track 2 error when trying to align with solar system objects only, but only after switching to rechargeable batteries, another discussion for another time, everything is still functional. I am not going to mess with the gear ratios, I was just curious as to why these could be edited. DST was checked to yes. Still cannot get it to point to the correct stars but I have aligned it to my liking where the tracking feature actually works. When it points to lets say Vega...it really points at a blank space. I just pressed GOTO and center aligned the brightest star and went to the next. When I focused Saturn manually and turned on the tracking, it stayed in view for about an hour...perfect for what i intend to use it for. 

However, I have embarked in a new adventure, i just got Stellarium interfaced with the scope with the use of a #506 cable so i know alignment must be conducted first for this to be accurate....we'll see how it goes, the PC will actually move the scope but will find out.

To be really picky...

Point it at the true pole - google for "Kochab's Clock" to learn how far to offset from Polaris.

Then switch on and when you get to Align it should ask you to centre on Polaris using the handset keys.

I think LAT: 28.24 LONG: -81.28 is in the wrong format (decimal), if so use Ronin's figures ( DD, MM)

Good luck

Michael

Yes the format was definitely in the incorrect format lol this has been corrected. I researched Kochab's Clock method and this looks to be specific to Equatorial type mounts, currently i have an Alt/Az mount but in my last observation, i centered polaris and then leveled the scope and then locked the clutches before beginning the alignment process. I think I am going to try to use the "2 star method" instead of "easy" possibly using polaris as one of the stars....it all depends on how far off the scope is after all these adjustments...looks like a cloudy night tonight so it might not happen tonight :/ 

[ronin]

Track 2 error when trying to align with solar system objects only, but only after switching to rechargeable batteries, another discussion for another time,

"Normal" AA's and AAA's produce 1.5v, so I guess you have a pack of 8 sat in a convenient cavity of the mount, 8x1.5 = 12v

Rechargeables produce 1.2v so 8x1.2 = 9.6v.

That will be the cause of the error.

Usually the scope just starts to wander off to some random bit of the sky, but sort of slowly.

Solar system alignment can be a problem, the stars are sort of fixed, so their position is read from a database, the solar system objects move, so their position has to be calculated, sometimes errors creep into these calculations.

In general Polaris is not recommended as a good alignment star. Although I suspect this depends on the way the internal software operates.

In case you ever try it, for Solar viewing you will need to do the following:

Enter the Sun into the custom object list and give the RA+Dec for that day - they change daily.

Level the mount accurately,

Level the OTA accurately,

Aim it North accurately,

Enter Date and Time and DST.

Tell the scope to do the Easy Align,

At each star the scope aligns on just press Enter to accept = you cannot see any stars it is daytime, :grin:

Then ask the scope to goto the custom location.

Oh yes also you will need a full aperture solar filter. :eek:

The accuracy is totally dependant of the Level+North accuracy, but I tracked the sun for 2 hours happily one day.

You can do the same at night if you are sure that the Level+North is accurate, just press Enter at each alignment star and live with it, it is quick.

I have no idea why the gear ratios can be edited, but apparently you can, as mentioned useful.

Cannot recall if I got that trick from the CN site or the Weasner site.

Does yours sort of "grumble" all the time as it is tracking ? :confused:

My ETX-70 does

[njasmin]

Ronin, for some odd reason it takes 10 AA batteries? It has to run at 15v i guess but the manual does indicate that a 12v power supply is used in place of the batteries, either way I am not too worried about it. After factory resetting the handbox from the PC instead on in the menu, it actually went to the correct stars last night. I can't say this was truely the fix or not but it seems like it could be. I have been taking more accurate mount leveling, I was using 2 points before, now i just spin the scope around with it attached to the flat part of the base. I ended up pointing it Centered on Polaris, then leveled the tube. A chance occurrence may have been the proc track 2 error because it caused me to power cycle. So it was set up as per the manual...they say not the use the motors when aligning. Either way "easy" alignment was pretty close and i was happy with the results.

I got stellarium linked up with the scope and it points to the objects on the screen which i think is pretty cool. One of these nights I will take my webcam-eyepice to it and see what happens as far as a picture is concerned. Definitely not of the sun even with good filters the thought is kind of scary, burning the good ole' retina!

My scope does grumble when tracking! I like that though because i like to hear its working  

[Dave In Vermont]

The Meade power-cord for these scopes - which cost a small fortune - must have a regulator of some sort to feed these telescopes the correct dosage of electricity. Something tells me that if you were to feed an LX90, LX200, etc. - with a flat-out 12V. with no regulator, you'd likely smell something burning. Or maybe just see a bright flash. The last analysis: Don't do it. If you decide - intelligently - to forgo batteries, get a proper power-supply. The Meade one claims an output of 12V. 5.0Amps.

I'd still be dubious though, and ask others who have done such as discern what these truly need and are safe with - without needing to call the Fire-Brigade. Why am I dubious? Here's one example: Meade just came out with a new line of scopes they are calling the LX70's. One of them they advertise as a 5-inch refractor. Okay - that's easy enough. 5" is 127mm. But then reading on, it becomes a 4.7" refractor. Somehow, in just one paragraph, this telescope shrunk by 7.62mm! Wow! They should start a diet-clinic.

DST lasts until November 1st. And the Magnetic Declination of Florida is between 4° and 6° W. So 5° sounds likely. A quick Google (or other search-engines) will get you good charts for magnetic-declination offsets worldwide.

Off to snarl at Meade -

Dave

[cjdawson]

A couple more things to throw out there.  btw, I have an LX-90, which uses the AutoStar, and yes the #494 can be swiched for a #497.

To get my scope working perfectly, I had a do a few things.

Stop using the internal batteries (not that I ever did), instead using an external 12v battery, Anything over 8Ah that's dedicated to the scope will be fine.   I personally use an 80Ah, but also run other equipment off the same battery (dew heaters, autoguider, skyfi to name a few)

You need to train the motors.  In the menus there are settings to perform a calibration of the motor in both Alt and Az mode.  This can be done in the daytime.  The process means pointing the scope at a chimeny pot or something similar a fair distance away. Then staring the calbration, it'll move the scope to the  off and ask you to move the scope back in the opposite direction.  You'll have to repeat this 4 times (one for each direction) and the scope will be getting trained.  Doing that should help to improve the pointing accuracy of the scope.

For alt-Az configuration, the home position of the scope is, tripod set horizontal with a bubble level.  Then the Tube of the OTA set horizontal with a bubble level, pointing north - i.e. angles at 0 degres just like a compass.

[cjdawson]

The Meade power-cord for these scopes - which cost a small fortune - must have a regulator of some sort to feed these telescopes the correct dosage of electricity. Something tells me that if you were to feed an LX90, LX200, etc. - with a flat-out 12V. with no regulator, you'd likely smell something burning. Or maybe just see a bright flash. The last analysis: Don't do it. If you decide - intelligently - to forgo batteries, get a proper power-supply. The Meade one claims an output of 12V. 5.0Amps.

I'd still be dubious though, and ask others who have done such as discern what these truly need and are safe with - without needing to call the Fire-Brigade. Why am I dubious? Here's one example: Meade just came out with a new line of scopes they are calling the LX70's. One of them they advertise as a 5-inch refractor. Okay - that's easy enough. 5" is 127mm. But then reading on, it becomes a 4.7" refractor. Somehow, in just one paragraph, this telescope shrunk by 7.62mm! Wow! They should start a diet-clinic.

DST lasts until November 1st. And the Magnetic Declination of Florida is between 4° and 6° W. So 5° sounds likely. A quick Google (or other search-engines) will get you good charts for magnetic-declination offsets worldwide.

Off to snarl at Meade -

Dave

Actually, no, the Meade power cords are simply expensive.  I've never used one and always feed 12v directly from my battery just like every other scope.