Astrotortilla can't access APT. Any ideas?

[Xiga]

Hey gazers

So in anticipation of trying my hand at some DSO imaging this season, i've been loading my newly acquired Netbook with all the software i'm going to need. I seem to have EQMOD, Cartes Du Ciel, PHD, APT, and AstroTortilla all working ok, but there's one thing that just won't work for me. When i choose Astrophotography Tool under 'Camera' and click on 'Setup', all i get is the window below:

From what i've read, i think i am supposed to get another screen with various options (e.g ISO etc) but no matter what i try all i get is the above. If i try clicking on Capture and Solve, after the countdown it just tells me Waiting for Camera and i have to abort. I should point out, i have the full paid version of APT. 

I know i have the option of manually taking the picture in AT and then accessing it in AT via 'File Open Dialog', but it would be good to automate this step and i know it's definitely possible so i thought i'd check on here to see if anyone else has been through this before. 

Thanks all!

[Thalestris24]

Hi

That's all you get! You set max AT iso in APT (advanced settings) and select exposure time (usually 2-3 secs) in AT.

AT is great though APT also directly supports another platesolver - PointCraft.

Louise

[Xiga]

Interesting, thank you Louise, i wasn't aware that was all i was supposed to see!

However, i am still getting the 'Waiting for Camera' message hanging indefinitely, and i don't hear the shutter open either. I should say, i haven't had a chance to actually connect my DSLR to the telescope and try taking some subs for testing, so up to now i've just been using images from the internet to test the plate solving and it's been working fine for me so far. But that's when i choose File Open Dialog, i want to test when using APT as the imaging program, so for now all i can do is test it indoors with the camera connected to the laptop but with the lens cap on. So i obviously don't expect it to solve, but i would expect it to get beyond 'Waiting for Camera' and at the moment it simply won't. 

Also, after i abort the capture, if i go back into APT, it still says Busy in the top left and it won't let me access some of the settings. In the end i have to exit the program and re-start it. Very frustrating! I'm hoping this will resolve if i can get AT to actually take a picture but i just don't know. 

I may look into PlateSolve2 instead, although i'd rather use AT now i have it setup and more or less know it will work, as long as it can access a picture. 

I basically want something as close to 'click and forget' once it is set up, and i think i'm close to that with AT, if i can just get the problems above sorted. 

[Thalestris24]

Hi

I think you have to have the mount connected and slewed to a target first since AT needs to know where the mount thinks it's pointing.

Good luck!

Louise

[Xiga]

Hi Louise

So is there no way i can test this without setting everything up outside under the stars? (assuming they ever come out, which seems to be rarer & rarer these days  )

[Thalestris24]

Hiya

Actually, I was thinking you might be able to do it by selecting the mount simulator in eqmod and cdc, though I'm not certain. Should work ok in theory...

Louise

[Xiga]

Argghh, still can't get it to work 

I can run the simulator fine, everything seems to work ok, but AT just keeps haning on 'Waiting for Camera'.

Am i supposed to change the port under Camera Settings?

[Thalestris24]

Argghh, still can't get it to work 

I can run the simulator fine, everything seems to work ok, but AT just keeps haning on 'Waiting for Camera'.

Am i supposed to change the port under Camera Settings?

Hi

You shouldn't need to change anything. I take it you have APT selected under AT's camera settings and you can operate the camera normally from APT? Have you selected Ascom telescope then the simulator in AT and likewise in eqmod? Have you slewed to a target and do the RA and DEC values appear in AT? I'm not sure if it will show anything useful at this stage but you might try selecting tools -> log viewer. You should be able to solve a previously saved jpg and do a goto image from the Tools menu.

Louise

[Thalestris24]

Hi

I just checked that my setup works ok with the Ascom simulator. One think to note - you must have image destination as PC in APT otherwise an image won't be uploaded and there'll be nothing for AT to see!

Hth

Louise

[Xiga]

Thanks for your suggestions Louise. Unfortunately, i'm still not getting anywhere.

The simulator seems to be working just fine. I can slew to targets in CdC, and AT displays 'Tracking' in green text. I have APT selectedunder 'Camera', and the destination as 'PC' in APT. I can take pictures just fine in APT if i press the 'Shoot' button, i can hear the shutter open and the picture is saved. But for whatever infernal reason, AT just doesn't seem to be able to capture the picture itself (i don't hear the shutter open when it hangs on 'Waiting for Camera').

I've attached a couple of pictures below to help show what i'm seeing in AT & APT, hopefully they are of some help, but if there's anything else i can post to help diagnose the problem, do please tell:

It must be something specific to my setup, as it seems to work for others. I don't have a particularly odd setup, i'm just running Win 7 Starter (32 bit) on a Samsung N220 Netbook.

I may just ping the APT creator an email and see if he can help. 

[Thalestris24]

Hi again

Hmm... that's a puzzle. APT seems to be getting the command from AT ok. The only thing I can think of trying is running APT as administrator.

Our APT man, Ivo/Yoddha on here, is very helpful.

Hope you can find a solution. I can't really see why it shouldn't work...

Louise

[Brent]

Xiga, I can't help with the issues you're having but all I would say is give the APT integrated PlateSolve2 a go.

I used Astro Tortilla for quite a while and it was very hit and miss  - with PlateSolve2 I get solves EVERY time and (so far) never in more than 35 seconds - it just works and needs no complicated setting up! This is on a slow 6 year old netbook!

I wouldn't go back to AT now.

[Thalestris24]

Xiga, I can't help with the issues you're having but all I would say is give the APT integrated PlateSolve2 a go.

I used Astro Tortilla for quite a while and it was very hit and miss  - with PlateSolve2 I get solves EVERY time and (so far) never in more than 35 seconds - it just works and needs no complicated setting up! This is on a slow 6 year old netbook!

I wouldn't go back to AT now.

Yep - sounds like a possible solution!

Louise

[Xiga]

Already running APT as admininstrator 

May look into using the integrated PlateSolve2 after all. I know there is a section in the APT User Guide on it, so i need to read through that first. 

Got any tips Brent that you've picked up in setting it up yourself? I liked the fact i could test AT indoors without actually needing to be outside and taking a real picture. Is that possible with PlateSolve2?

Thanks for all your help on this guys. 

[Xiga]

Okay from what i've read it seems i could still load an internet image in PlateSolve2 as a test, and it should still solve.

So can you tell me if the following would be the right way for me to go about finding, say M31, in the field:

1. Put the scope in the home position (for my HEQ5 Pro this is pointing North). Make sure everything is balanced obviously.

2. Tell CdC to go find M31. it should slew off and get somewhere in the ballpark.

3. Take an image in APT, click on 'PointCraft', then hit 'Scope Pos' to populate the RA/Dec of where the scope is. 

4. Click 'Solve'. Image should then solve. Then hit 'Sync'. The scope should now by aligned on it's current position.

5. I can now use a Goto to go find M31, and it should be bang on. 

Does this look right?

And, does EQMOD not need to be 'reset' (i.e set to Home) on it's first startup or does it just know where to go for the initial slew based on the mount's Home position?

[Brent]

I haven't solved from a previous image yet as I'm having other unrelated issues which I have to sort first, but here's my workflow with my Ascom connected Meade LXD75:

Balance > polar scope alignment > AlignMaster polar alignment > focus DSLR (I use a webcam for AlignMaster as my DSLR doesn't have Live View).

I don't return to the home position as APT knows vaguely where the scope is pointing on startup.

Click on 'Objects' (next to 'PointCraft' button), select M31 which then populates RA and Dec fields, click 'GoTo'. Pointcraft slews to where it thinks the object is.

Next I do my PHD calibration.

Then, click 'PointCraft', then in the 'Center FOV at position' box click 'Objects' and select M31 again which populates the RA and Dec fields, click the 'GoTo ++' button and everything is automatic from then on - movement > imaging > solving, rinses and repeats until within desired pixel allowance.

Hope that helps a bit and wasn't too convoluted.

[Thalestris24]

I haven't solved from a previous image yet as I'm having other unrelated issues which I have to sort first, but here's my workflow with my Ascom connected Meade LXD75:

Balance > polar scope alignment > AlignMaster polar alignment > focus DSLR (I use a webcam for AlignMaster as my DSLR doesn't have Live View).

I don't return to the home position as APT knows vaguely where the scope is pointing on startup.

Click on 'Objects' (next to 'PointCraft' button), select M31 which then populates RA and Dec fields, click 'GoTo'. Pointcraft slews to where it thinks the object is.

Next I do my PHD calibration.

Then, click 'PointCraft', then in the 'Center FOV at position' box click 'Objects' and select M31 again which populates the RA and Dec fields, click the 'GoTo ++' button and everything is automatic from then on - movement > imaging > solving, rinses and repeats until within desired pixel allowance.

Hope that helps a bit and wasn't too convoluted.

Hiya

I've not used APT/Pointcraft myself - only APT/Astrotortilla. Might consider trying Pointcraft. However, can you not just slew to target in Stellarium/CdC and get it to solve and re-center (as AT does)?

Thanks

Louise

[Xiga]

Hiya

I've not used APT/Pointcraft myself - only APT/Astrotortilla. Might consider trying Pointcraft. However, can you not just slew to target in Stellarium/CdC and get it to solve and re-center (as AT does)?

Thanks

Louise

i too would like to know if it's possible for Pointcraft to be as automated as AT as regards plate solving. Although, if it turns out it requires a few more clicks to achieve the same result then i suppose that's not too big of a deal.

Louise, if i could go a bit off-topic for a mo, you seem to be pretty well in the know as far as APT is concerned. Could you help me with the settings required to setup an exposure Plan which includes Dithering please?

I think i need to set the Dithering distance to 5 in APT, and then set the Dithering Scale to 3 in PHD (as i think this will give me about 15 pixels of Dithering, which is what i'm looking for with my DSLR).

Now, i know that the mount will need some time to perform this Dither in between subs. Also, when settin up a Plan, there is the usual option to include a gap between subs (either to let the camera cool or minimise vibrations from the mirror lockuop). How does this setting work in conjunction with the specific setting to allow a certain amount of time for each Dither? Do you only need to set one, or both? I'm a bit confused on this one, and i haven't actually taken any subs yet myself (only just got the scope, haven't had first light yet) so i would really like to have as many settings done and ready to go for when the time comes.

[Thalestris24]

i too would like to know if it's possible for Pointcraft to be as automated as AT as regards plate solving. Although, if it turns out it requires a few more clicks to achieve the same result then i suppose that's not too big of a deal.

Louise, if i could go a bit off-topic for a mo, you seem to be pretty well in the know as far as APT is concerned. Could you help me with the settings required to setup an exposure Plan which includes Dithering please?

I think i need to set the Dithering distance to 5 in APT, and then set the Dithering Scale to 3 in PHD (as i think this will give me about 15 pixels of Dithering, which is what i'm looking for with my DSLR).

Now, i know that the mount will need some time to perform this Dither in between subs. Also, when settin up a Plan, there is the usual option to include a gap between subs (either to let the camera cool or minimise vibrations from the mirror lockuop). How does this setting work in conjunction with the specific setting to allow a certain amount of time for each Dither? Do you only need to set one, or both? I'm a bit confused on this one, and i haven't actually taken any subs yet myself (only just got the scope, haven't had first light yet) so i would really like to have as many settings done and ready to go for when the time comes.

Hi

I can't say! It's probably best to get going with ordinary guiding first anyway. Do you have a reducer? Do you have an oag? Even with a reducer you'll be guiding at over 1000mm of focal length so you'll either need an oag or a guide scope with a decent focal length e.g. an ST80. You'll also need a sensitive guide camera. So you need to get all that sorted and up and running before worrying about dithering!

Louise

[Xiga]

Sorry, i keep forgetting i haven't update my sig with the new equipment!

I will be imaging with a SW 80ED with the matched x0.85 FF/FR, so a focal length of 510mm.

Mount and camera are as per my sig, so a HEQ5Pro and a Canon 60D.

For guiding, i will be using a 9x50 finder guider equipped with an adapter from Modern Astronomy. The guide camera is a QHY5 (old version).

I don’t even have a front or back yard I can practice in, my only field time will be once a month at my local Astro society get-together’s, which is about a 45 minute drive away. For these reasons, I really want to try and aim as high as I can. I don’t want to end up with a noisy image that I’m just not going to be happy with, and dithering sounds like an absolute must-have for DSLR users.

And sure, if all goes well, then I will have a full month to play with the data and start to learn the processing side of things

But then again, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry!

[Thalestris24]

Ah, ok. That sounds more manageable! (So far, I've done all my imaging through a second floor window (open, of course!). I just about manage but am limited to whatever's passing the window in the east...)

Even so, I still can't give you settings. They will depend on your sky and what your target is. I generally do 180s/ISO400 subs with my modded 1100d and 200mm lens, f4, on an heq5 syntrek.The modded camera is more sensitive than an unmodded one. At the same time I have city light pollution so use a lp filter which cuts down on the total light hitting the sensor. With an unmodded 1100d and no lp filter, I could only do 60-90s subs at f4. I can do longer subs with the modded camera plus lp filter but 180s seems ok for most things. I would think with the reduced 80ED you could increase exposure times. It's something you have to play around with to get the optimum exposure for your sky conditions and target.

In APT I have a dithering distance of 5, settling time of 50 and timeout of 75. Again, you have to see what works best for you.

Hope that helps a bit!

Louise

[Brent]

Hiya

I've not used APT/Pointcraft myself - only APT/Astrotortilla. Might consider trying Pointcraft. However, can you not just slew to target in Stellarium/CdC and get it to solve and re-center (as AT does)?

Thanks

Louise

Sorry Louise, I didn't see your reply.

To be honest, I didn't use AT with APT as my 350D drivers wouldn't work with the OS I was using back then. I had to do manual capture and solve with AT so I don't know what level of automation it achieves with APT.

I don't think APT/PointCraft integrates with Stellarium/CdC, so as I understand it you would slew using Stellarium or CdC, then click to start PointCraft imaging and solving. So, one click after doing the goto and then it's automatic.

Is that what you wanted clarification of, or have I misunderstood?

[Thalestris24]

Sorry Louise, I didn't see your reply.

To be honest, I didn't use AT with APT as my 350D drivers wouldn't work with the OS I was using back then. I had to do manual capture and solve with AT so I don't know what level of automation it achieves with APT.

I don't think APT/PointCraft integrates with Stellarium/CdC, so as I understand it you would slew using Stellarium or CdC, then click to start PointCraft imaging and solving. So, one click after doing the goto and then it's automatic.

Is that what you wanted clarification of, or have I misunderstood?

Hi

Thanks for the reply I suppose I should setup and try the PointCraft but imaging time is so precious! With Astrotorttilla, I slew to a target in Stellarium then I click on solve in AT. AT then platesolves, slews to the target and centers it. So is that the same for Pointcraft within APT?

Thanks

Louise

[Xiga]

Hi

So taking the example of M31, would the exact process be as follows?

1. Slew to M31 (this can be done by either an external program, such as CdC, or within APT itself by selecting M31 from the 'Objects' menu and pressing 'GoTo'). After which, the mount should be close-ish to the target.

2. Then, in the 'Center FOV at position' box click 'Objects' and select M31, which populates the RA and Dec fields, then click the 'GoTo ++' button.

The mount & camera should then do the picture taking, solving, and slewing all itself until it gets on target.

Is that basically it?

And if so, why can't you just press the 'GoTo ++' button first time?

Thanks,

Ciarán.

[Brent]

Hi

Thanks for the reply I suppose I should setup and try the PointCraft but imaging time is so precious! With Astrotorttilla, I slew to a target in Stellarium then I click on solve in AT. AT then platesolves, slews to the target and centers it. So is that the same for Pointcraft within APT?

Thanks

Louise

I think that the only difference is that PointCraft requires you to enter an approximate RA an Dec for the object - I see this as a positive because it speeds up the solving at least triple-fold on my slow netbook.

You can populate the RA and Dec by either using the  built in object selector in PointCraft, or manually from Stellarium for the more obscure objects (that's a bit fiddly but I'm sure Ivo will improve the object database over time or hopefully integrate with Stellarium as well  )

I know what you mean about limited imaging time, I'm at a fairly dark site at the moment and the forecast has gone from clear all night to clear til 12ish. I might end up just trying to solve my tilt issues with CCD Inspector, but what a waste of a great sky!