Buying a mount for a remote observatory

[nchazarra]

Hi to everybody,

Although this is my first post, I've been reading this forum for a long time. I'm a spanish geologist, but I love astronomy and I own two telescopes.

My astronomy club is planning to build a remote observatory at a very dark site here in Spain, with an overall good weather all the year and +1000 meters above sea level. We need to buy a mount that is capable to load a 12" SC telescope, an smaller scope for autoguiding and two CCDs. The price range we are thinking to spend in the mount is around 6000€, but we need some advice before buying it.

Thanks for your help.

[orly_andico]

For remote, the Bisque Paramounts are the gold standard. They have been around forever, the software is old, well-tested at hundreds or thousands of locations, and is widely used by professionals.

I don't think you can get any Bisque mount for 6000 EUR though. The smallest and newest (the Paramount MyT) is 6000 USD and might be at the limit with a 12" SCT. With duties etc. you will be over 6000 EUR.

I would suggest a used Paramount ME (the old one) which has a 70kg payload. You might just find one.

Otherwise, look at the 10Micron mounts. I am not sure a GM1000 would suffice, you might need to go with the GM2000. Either will be well over 6000 EUR unfortunately. The 10Microns have absolute encoders and are technically superior to the Bisque mounts, but the Bisques have worked perfectly all over the world for decades without encoders.

[perfrej]

I wouldn't exactly set the Paramounts as the gold standard anymore. They were for a long time, but today the 10Microns are, as said above technically superior, much easier to use, deliver unguided imaging, do not need homing, do not need to be serviced and cannot get lost. Just my twopence Don't get this wrong, though; the Paramounts are still excellent mounts and will not let you down!

If money is indeed the tight spot, there are sometimes used 10Microns that pop up - and disappear real fast. 

/per

[ollypenrice]

Otherwise, look at the 10Micron mounts. I am not sure a GM1000 would suffice, you might need to go with the GM2000. Either will be well over 6000 EUR unfortunately. The 10Microns have absolute encoders and are technically superior to the Bisque mounts, but the Bisques have worked perfectly all over the world for decades without encoders.

Whoa,  anyone reading the forums or having lots of contacts in the amateur astronomy community will know of plenty of problems encountered by Paramount owners. I personally know three people who've had such problems. I don't believe any mounts have a perfect track record or, indeed, anything resembling one. They can all misbehave and they sometimes do.

To the best of my knowledge the only mount that comes  within budget (or indeed anywhere near it) and could perform with a 12 inch SCT is the Mesu Mount 200. I have used one for 3.5 years without dropping a sub to mount error. The first two years were with a 14 inch Dall Kirkham FL 2.4 metres working at 0.66 arcsecs per pixel for long exposure (30 minute) DS imaging.  http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/i-Sc3kgzc/0/X3/M51%20DEC%20VERSION%20clip-X3.jpgThe last 18 months have been with our dual Tak 106 rig which is, of course, less demanding.

However, I don't believe in hype so the first thing to say is that our Mesu is not the robotic-compatible SiTech version but the original Stellarcat-Argonavis which cannot work remotely. I host a remote SiTech Mesu and it has a problem. Sometimes it drives on RA to the end of its limit and stops. I go out and reset it manually. Why this happens we do not know. Whether the problem affects other remote Mesus I don't know either. In other respects it does the job superbly. I'm not closely involved with the SiTech version here and the SiTech hardware and software gets a mixed press. It is certainly rather obscure but Steve Richards (Steppenwolf on here and a top class technical man) has written an alternative guide which people are finding very helpful.

Getting a truly remote, unattended observatory to work perfectly will be a very tall order. Make no mistake about that. I often pop out to fix this or that little thing on behalf of the guys whose gear I host. The system works well but a truly remote system has to work perfectly (that word again!) and that's going to be difficult.

Olly

[orly_andico]

I think the reason there are a lot of reports of Paramount problems is because they have the largest installed base of remote robotic observatories.

I've been using GRAS for years and recently there has been a spate of issues in Siding Springs.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the majority of small robotic observatories in academe are using Paramounts.

[Gonzo]

Getting a truly remote, unattended observatory to work perfectly will be a very tall order. Make no mistake about that. I often pop out to fix this or that little thing on behalf of the guys whose gear I host. The system works well but a truly remote system has to work perfectly (that word again!) and that's going to be difficult.

 

Olly

That's well said, hence mine is not online yet as I'm still going over lots of software bugs.

You need to do LOTS of research before buying anything, if you're on a small budget like me, you just get what you can afford (I got an HEQ5) and plan all kind of scenario.

/per is lucky to have Olly on site if anything goes wrong. I have 'almost' no-one to help me out if .... hits the fan.

[steppenwolf]

I am in the process of completing a 'test-bed' robotic observatory and even with carefully chosen equipment (including a Mesu 200 mount with Sitech controller) this is not a straightforward enterprise and having someone on site to put things right (like Olly for example) is an important consideration. Broken drive chains, mounts that have confused east and west side start point near the meridian are all par for the course!

Trying to get a disparate set of hardware and software to work in perfect harmony is an amazing ask and to single out one piece of kit as being the 'perfect solution' is not truly realistic! The Mesu is getting there, anecdotally the 10 Micron offerings should be in there too.

[Gonzo]

There is and if you have the funds.... the Merlino as a complete remote observatory. I have not seen one with my own eyes nor read any in depth review yet. It's something to think about maybe.

[perfrej]

My 10Microns have never failed to deliver in robotic terms. The roof has, the focuser has and the controlling computer has, but the mount? Never. These puppies cannot get lost and don't ever need to be reset in any way. Simple as that.

/per