Advice... in the city, newbie with no car (yeesh!)

[Twelvecarpileup]

Been lurking the forums, interested in trying this out. 

I've used telescopes a few as a teen when I lived at home with my Dad, but it's been over 15 years. Randomly while talking about it my girlfriend got super excited by the idea of me setting up a telescope again. I've done some work with binoculars but got a bit of a shaky hand. 

Doing a bit of research I've had some of the basics come back to me (I think...), and know a few things to avoid. Here's the issue. I live in downtown Vancouver, Canada and don't own a car. I do live five or six blocks from the big park (not ideal, but probably the best I'll get). So I'll be carrying this by hand down the street, and through a park. 

A few articles I've read have suggested getting a GoTo style mount if you're new to it and in a dense urban area. There's two I've seen on Craigslist that I can grab this weekend. 

A Meade ETX-60 and a Meade DS-2080.

Both are $100. Which is a better choice for city viewing? Just looking for some time with the moon, Jupiter/Saturn to start. 

I've read reviews on both that were good, but then a few on amazon that make the GoTo thing seem like being stuck in a Kafka novel. 
 

Would a no nonsense refractor just be a better choice? 

Thanks!

[BVietje]

Hello Twelvecarpileup (I hope you were'nt in one!),

Observing from the city can be tough!  It's hard to see enough stars to even get your bearings and figure out the major constellations.  You will need to know which bright stars you are seeing just to set up a go-to 'scope, so they are not going to be all that easy to use, either.  There are some that can use a GPS device, to get around having to know anything about the night sky, but now we're getting into LOTS of unmet expectations.  For my money, I'd rather have a little more 'scope that the go-to functionality, since that can cause some real frustration if It's hard to set up.

I'm sure there is an astronomy club in or near Vancouver, so it might be a good idea to look them up, and see if they are a good resource for you.  They may have an observatory nearby, and they may have star parties to help you get back into the night sky and check out different telescopes and eyepieces without spending any money.  If you can hang out witha few members setting up for a star party, and get a feel for how easy/difficult it is with thier equipment, that will be very helpful info.

Other options would include solar observing, or focusing for now on just the bright stuff:  Moon, planets, bright star clusters and brighter doubles.  While solar telescopes are often 60mm or smaller, you may need to hold out for something a bit larger for good views of Jupiter, Saturn, etc...  If you can find a decent 80mm scope (refractor) at a reasonable price, it will be useful for all the bright stuff, and there's a lot you can do with a short 80mm refractor.

Just to plant a seed or two, let's say you find a good little 80mm scope with 1.25" focuser...

• you can get awesome views of the moon and brighter planets...
• purchase and a 1.25" "eyepiece camera" and get some great images of the moon and planets, and learn all about image processing...
• you can get a white light solar filter and see great sunspot detail...
• ...and photograph that, too...
• Double star astronomy & photography...
• Spectroscopy with a Star Analyzer diffraction grating and RSpec software...

You can spend years mastering these topics, and if/when you get access to a larger scope or a dark-sky observing site through a local club, you could be using really nice stuff that you won;t have to purchase!

How's that ?!?

[BVietje]

Check these folks out...

http://rasc-vancouver.com/

This is a serious group, and a wealth of information, mentorship, new astro-buddies.

Clear skies,

[Twelvecarpileup]

Thanks BVietje! The club is a good idea, and something I've looked into but they often meet way outside of the city. Plus I've got a pretty unpredictable schedule (musician) so finding a night that they meet and I can be tough. 

The 80mm list you posted is interesting! Growing up my father was a bit of an expert in microscope photography so it could be a fun idea to head his way sometime and try it together. Due to space in my apartment I can't get anything too big. 

I'd love to try one of those 80mm travel scopes? But would the focal length be too short to see anything? 

[GeorgeB]

I live in London in a flat with a car park and no garden, but with a large park near by.  The car park is very light polluted, but I have no problems with planetary or lunar observing.  On a good clear moonless night I'll go to the park just with a pair of binoculars if on my own.  If I get a friend to come along to share the load, we'll carry a telescope (102mm GOTO refractor or a Mak 127) - thankfully it's just a 10 min walk.  Having the GOTO in the city really helps to find  faint fuzzies compared to scanning with binoculars.  I've purposely not bought large or bulky kit, so that I can transport it on foot a short distance (especially with a friends help).

I couple of times a year when I go on holiday then I'll take the binoculars with me, or a scope if I rent a car.

Don't let being in a city stop you!! 

[dick_dangerous]

You'd be amazed at how much you can see in the city, and how much equipment you can schlep to a park with enough imagination...

I have two telescopes now and live in a first floor flat. My ST80 refractor is for when I go traveling somewhere and I don't have a car - it's so small that it'll fit on a camera tripod and I have a camera backpack that can be adapted to accommodate it so I can take it on board planes as carry-on luggage. From London it'll show me the planets and bright Messiers but when I took it to Northern Spain last year it blew my mind with stunning views of the Veil Nebula, the Helix, the North America, M33 etc. etc. etc. Some of these are objects I'd never seen before. Back in London I can sling it over one shoulder, even with its wobbly EQ1 mount, and take it down the park for a quick session. In some ways I'd recommend this over anything else because of the potential to easily take it to dark skies. Here's me observing Venus with it for reference:

My other telescope is a 150mm Dobsonian. Though considered a small telescope, and the smallest "classic" Dobsonian, it's pretty imposing in my little flat. I take it to the park on a carp trolley, but I usually have to take it outside in two bits. From the park I've used it to view loads of things - I've managed the notoriously low-down M7, a myriad planetary nebulae, a glimpse of the Veil, intense detail in the Orion Nebula, the GRS on Jupiter, Saturn's rings, countless members of the Virgo Cluster, Uranus and Neptune... I could go on and on! Dobs give you the biggest bang-for-buck, they're simple and I absolutely love mine. The only drawback is that it won't come abroad with me... Here's the telescope on its trolley:

Finally, what to look for - aim to view objects with high surface brightness: planets, planetary nebulae, doubles stars and open clusters are all perfect urban targets. Do push it though because you'll never know if you don't try. I've been able to view some quite faint galaxies from out in Bushy Park - I have to admit there are some classic objects that are just totally out of my grasp, but trying to find this stuff is all part of the fun!

Enjoy!

DD

[ronin]

Isn't there a meeting or something at an observatory in Vanier Pk?

Although I think it may be winter only, they have or had a half meter scope.

[Qualia]

I can't add to the already excellent advice, so I'll just throw out another idea.

I apreciate that no one circumstance is the same, and it is possible that someone may have neither usable roof, garden, or balcony. But asking about, there are good chances that someone somewhere in your town might know of a safe and convenient area where you can observe from. If you could get this side of the problem sorted, the battle is half-way done.

Once you know where you can observe from and remain safe, comfortable, undisturbed and relaxed, what to observe with, what optimum instrument you can use to enjoy the night sky in the particular urban area you reside in, will probably suggest itself more readily.

As you already know, when observing in any light-polluted area, aperture is going to be a very important consideration, along with a larger focal ratio, so you can gain higher magnifications for any given eyepiece and augment the contrast between the sky background and deep space object.

Taking these factors into account (portability, ease of use, decent aperture, longer focal ratio etc), I'd either ask someone if they would be kind enough to build me a portable 8" to 10" f5 to f8 truss dob that could be set up in minutes and ready for use straight away, or I would look out for a secondhand 8" Schmidt–Cassegrain. No doubt about it. Both would be really adaptable. Lots of aperture, decent amount of focal length, the ability to reduce it for wider field views etc. If there’s not a perfect scope, these two would at least come close.

[BVietje]

Another factor when joining a local club:  you will probably make some good astro-friends (but there will be the occasional disfunctional types, too!), but ideally, you make make friends with another amateur with a car so you can get regular access to better observing sites.  I assume some activities would be on public transportation, then a car-pool to the remote locations (?)  One can hope, and perhaps scheme...

Clear skies,

[dick_dangerous]

Taking these factors into account (portability, ease of use, decent aperture, longer focal ratio etc), I'd either ask someone if they would be kind enough to build me a portable 8" to 10" f5 to f8 truss dob that could be set up in minutes and ready for use straight away

I saw, somewhere, a truss dob that folded up into a suitcase size thing with straps. The who caboodle was about 20kg and could be carried on the back. I think they made it themselves, but it was a pretty large telescope. I'm sure it was a 20'' mirror.

DD

[BVietje]

@twelvecarpileup:  While I'm not  a huge fan of go-to telescopes for newbies, your situation is a challange.  I would try the local astronomy club idea, and see whare that leads you first.  Ther may be options we haven't though of (?)

If you do go for a small portable scope, here's an interesting option for a Meade ETX-80mm scope that's made to carry about, and even comes with the backpack for travel: 

This can be used for terrestrial use, too, and has a built-in Barlow lens -- pretty cool.

Another option would be a small Maksutov or Mac-Newtonian, some of which are available in 90 - 125 go-to models.  Even if the go-to stuff breaks down completely at some point, you can remove the optical tube assembly, and mount it more permanently later -- the optics should be good for life.  Here's one such option from Celestron: 

This little tube attaches to the motorized mount with a dovetail fitting that will allow it to be attached to other mounts, as well, and these have pretty good optics.  I sometimes use the same electronic drive on a bigger Celestron mount, and once set up, it works fine.  You DO have to be able to find a few bright stars on your own to set this one up, though.

Good luck.

Clear skies,

[Twelvecarpileup]

Thanks everyone for the advice!

Grabbing an Meade 80mm Refractor on a GoTo mount this weekend. It's fitting in the budget/portability I want to do.

I've looked more in depth for the clubs around here and it looks like they don't have any meetings coming up. But when they do, I'll see if I can get a night off to check with them.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate you all taking your time to educate me. 

[PeterW]

you could rehouse commercial optics….

http://user.xmission.com/~alanne/DS4/DS4Main.html

can't find the S&T briefcase 16” build

Buy a commercial compact scope.. http://www.explorescientific.co.uk/en/Telescope-optics/Explore-Scientific-Ultra-Light-Dobsonian-305mm.html

Or make it small…. http://www.bbastrodesigns.com/rft.html

http://www.loptics.com/articles/fast14p5/fast14p5.html

I like my scopes fast…

Cheers

PeterW

[scarp15]

Taking these factors into account (portability, ease of use, decent aperture, longer focal ratio etc), I'd either ask someone if they would be kind enough to build me a portable 8" to 10" f5 to f8 truss dob that could be set up in minutes and ready for use straight away, or I would look out for a secondhand 8" Schmidt–Cassegrain. No doubt about it. Both would be really adaptable. Lots of aperture, decent amount of focal length, the ability to reduce it for wider field views etc. If there’s not a perfect scope, these two would at least come close.

I pinned this feature from another similar thread sometime ago. 

8" portable truss very cute.

My 8-inch Travelscope | Gary Seronik.com

[PeterW]

Found it, 16" suitcase....

http://www.oswego.edu/~gelfand/astro/astro.html

Cheers

Peter

[BVietje]

Found it, 16" suitcase....

http://www.oswego.edu/~gelfand/astro/astro.html

Cheers

Peter

Cool!  The field pictures are at Stellafane.  Thet's before I was the STM prez., but  I was both a mechanical and optical judge that year, and I remember the 16" suitcase dob.  We had another 16" arrive on a motorcycle, maybe in 2000 or 2001, so it can be done!

Clear skies,

[Michael11]

In "Soviet Russia" (as I've read on their forums) some amateur astronomers packed a 12" Newtonian with an EQ6 mount (!) into 2 backpacks (one on the back and on in front), take it by a train to a countryside and then hike with it a few kilometers to an observing site. Oh and they do it in winter (I've seen some photos which prove it).

 So depending on your level of insanity dedication - any setup can be a grab and go

On a serious note - for starters I'd get a small skywatcher (or a similar) 130mm table top dobsonian. I think it's a better choice as a first scope.

Or if the budget allows - some alt-az 8" Schmidt cassegrain (mead / celestron / etc) is a really portable setup.